than Phaneuf???? Are you serious? You don't really think he's a top 10 dman in the NHL do you? He's a good dman, yes, but he is not top 10. No way.
- Dirte

id say 10 - 15 range, depends on how you look at things...if you dont want to have a rational discussion and just rant, fine.

Yes, if you add an elite dman to the Leafs, it would make the Leafs D lineup a top group. What does it matter WHICH elite dman. Add Shea Weber to the Leafs, and you have a great lineup. Or any other top two way dman.

Now, don't go all retard and start talking about how Shea Weber is not available. I just picked one out of thin air. It doesn't matter which one.
- Dirte

Of course it matters... Weber wouldn't be a good fit with Phaneuf- he's got the same issue- needs a defense first guy to play with. And you're not getting Weber or Phaneuf to play on the 2nd pairing.


Hell, without Suter, it's debatable whether you can call Weber an "elite" dman at all... he actually looks a lot like Phaneuf.

Not that many. Would it make you feel better if I said Toronto needs a top number one dman, and didn't use the word "elite"?

I don't know why you say coward. I don't see the relevance of who. It's a concept, it doesn't matter who.
- Dirte

Because if you list them it's painfully obvious Phaneuf is a number 1 dman. Easily top 30 which by definition is a number 1.

Then on top of that is an all situations player logging massive PK time making him more of a number 1 dman than lots of other one dimensional players.

I'd have no problem going over 5. People really truly don't understand how good he really is.


If/when he's gone they will though.
- burn

Cause he is not as good as you think. That's why he can't make the Olympic roster. You sign him to a 5 year 6+ deal, you will regret it.

$5M puts him top 25 paid dman. Do you think he's a top 25 dman in the league? At $6M, that's top 10 money. I just can't get on board with that.
- Dirte

About 3/4 of those guy will be expecting a raise or retirement in the next 2 - 3 years. Put some perspective on that opinion.

Sure, amuse me
- PinkSock

Weber, Chara, Keith, Letang, Suter, Markov, Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Pietrangelo, Staal. I can go on if you like.

id say 10 - 15 range, depends on how you look at things...if you dont want to have a rational discussion and just rant, fine.
- PinkSock

I'm not ranting at all. He's not in the top 10 to 15 dmen in the league.

Of course it matters... Weber wouldn't be a good fit with Phaneuf- he's got the same issue- needs a defense first guy to play with. And you're not getting Weber or Phaneuf to play on the 2nd pairing.


Hell, without Suter, it's debatable whether you can call Weber an "elite" dman at all... he actually looks a lot like Phaneuf.
- Feeling Glucky?

LOL. If you think it matters which dman.... and you have Weber, you get rid of Phaneuf, and don't worry about whether Weber fits with Phaneuf or not.

2nd most Dmen points on the team, 2nd most Mins/game. Played well defensively. Didn't get beat one-on-one.


I don't know what's so funny. I don't know why you hat the kid, but he's no where near as bad as you want to think.
- burn

Had to play. Bodies out. And did make a great pass on the game winner.

I'm not ranting at all. He's not in the top 10 to 15 dmen in the league.
- Dirte

Markov is though.

LOL. If you think it matters which dman.... and you have Weber, you get rid of Phaneuf, and don't worry about whether Weber fits with Phaneuf or not.
- Dirte

You get Weber, lose Phaneuf, and have the exact same problem with a bigger price tag, on a contract that will never go away.


YAY!

Markov is though.
- A_Tree

Because if you list them it's painfully obvious Phaneuf is a number 1 dman. Easily top 30 which by definition is a number 1.

Then on top of that is an all situations player logging massive PK time making him more of a number 1 dman than lots of other one dimensional players.
- Blazed

I wouldn't argue that. I've never said he's not. But when I look at what is "needed", I look at it in terms of what's needed to win a cup. I think if you look over the last few years, you'll find that teams that win the cup have a guy like Phaneuf in the number 2 spot, not the number 1 spot. Of all the teams remaining, only Detroit doesn't have a Dman better than Phaneuf. Last year, the Kings had Doughty, along with a pile of other good dmen. The year before that, Boston had Chara. The year before that, Chicago had Keith. The year before that, Pittsburgh had Gonchar at his best, and Letang. The year before that, the Wings had Lidstrom. The year before that, Anaheim had Pronger and Nieds.

That is an area that the Leafs do not truly measure up to the real cup contenders, with Phaneuf playing number 1 dman.

Markov is though.
- A_Tree

well. When he's healthy. I wouldn't want him anymore, simply because you can't depend on him.

You get Weber, lose Phaneuf, and have the exact same problem with a bigger price tag, on a contract that will never go away.


YAY!
- Feeling Glucky?

Are you trying to tell me you think Phaneuf is as good as Shea Weber?

Are you trying to tell me you think Phaneuf is as good as Shea Weber?
- Dirte

In one year without Suter, Weber wasn't any better.

well. When he's healthy. I wouldn't want him anymore, simply because you can't depend on him.
- Dirte

Oh good, because dependability isn't a desirable trait when evaluating the quality of defensemen.

I'm a kings fan so no stake in this. Rooted mildly for Leafs vs Boston. Thought Phaneuf was very average. Lots of turnovers and out of position. His former Calgary buddy Robyn Regehr has been strong for kings

In one year without Suter, Weber wasn't any better.
- Feeling Glucky?

Personally I don't even think that's true. But the question is, who do you think is better?

I'm a kings fan so no stake in this. Rooted mildly for Leafs vs Boston. Thought Phaneuf was very average. Lots of turnovers and out of position. His former Calgary buddy Robyn Regehr has been strong for kings
- bruin18

I'd take Phaneuf over Regehr every day of the week, twice on Sunday.

Oh good, because dependability isn't a desirable trait when evaluating the quality of defensemen.
- A_Tree

You little Phaneuf fan boys are so butthurt.

You little Phaneuf fan boys are so butthurt.
- Dirte

Not at all.

You're putting Markov up there before Phaneuf, therefore I can't take you seriously.

I wouldn't argue that. I've never said he's not. But when I look at what is "needed", I look at it in terms of what's needed to win a cup. I think if you look over the last few years, you'll find that teams that win the cup have a guy like Phaneuf in the number 2 spot, not the number 1 spot. Of all the teams remaining, only Detroit doesn't have a Dman better than Phaneuf. Last year, the Kings had Doughty, along with a pile of other good dmen. The year before that, Boston had Chara. The year before that, Chicago had Keith. The year before that, Pittsburgh had Gonchar at his best, and Letang. The year before that, the Wings had Lidstrom. The year before that, Anaheim had Pronger and Nieds.

That is an area that the Leafs do not truly measure up to the real cup contenders, with Phaneuf playing number 1 dman.
- Dirte

There is no set formula to win the Cup now that is retarded. Quick name Carolina's top dman when they won.

Gonchar was Pitts when they won, and he was far from his bet and was 1 dinensional.

There is no set formula to win the Cup now that is retarded. Quick name Carolina's top dman when they won.

Gonchar was Pitts when they won, and he was far from his bet and was 1 dinensional.
- Blazed

Who was NJs number 1 last year in the finals, the team that gave LA the most trouble ?

Vancouver came within a game of winning with Bieksa.

There is no set formula to win the Cup now that is retarded. Quick name Carolina's top dman when they won.

Gonchar was Pitts when they won, and he was far from his bet and was 1 dinensional.
- Blazed

Gonchar was playing 25 minutes a night, scoring at a ridiculous pace still, playing quite a bit of PK. Gonchar was actually playing some pretty solid 2 way hockey for a few years in Pittsburgh. He was coming off a year that he came 4th in Norris voting, the best of his career. He would have been pretty similar, if not for having his season shortened. He was playing the best hockey of his career when he was with Pitts.