Kings don't have a single Selke level Forward. They have a lot of Forwards who are very responsible defensively. And they are committed to playing well defensively. And it started with Terry Murray who demanded it. And it continues under Sutter.
- MJL

thats kind of what i was getting at. its more of a defensive mentality as a whole group effort. starts at the top from guys like kopitar and brown on down, through the way that they play. they are perfectly content winning 2 to 1. the pens and flyers, regardless of whether or not people think they have the personnel for it, are not.

Jake Patterson will be in net tonight per John Matisz
- ob18

not a surprise, really.

Not a surprise there at all. Stolarz is done for the season. Shame, poor way for him to end it.
- mayorofangrytown

Not the time to not have control of your game or lose confidence.......If anything I can see fatigue being the main factor for him.

Conditioning will or should be a big focus of his in the off-season.

not a surprise, really.
- hammarby31

Nope. Just another tough game tonight against Halifax

Define Selke Level Forwrd.
- mayorofangrytown

A top defensive Forward in the League.

thats kind of what i was getting at. its more of a defensive mentality as a whole group effort. starts at the top from guys like kopitar and brown on down, through the way that they play. they are perfectly content winning 2 to 1. the pens and flyers, regardless of whether or not people think they have the personnel for it, are not.
- stayinthefnnet

I agree. Although I see more of a defensive commitment from the Pens then I do the Flyers. Even if it doesn't always show. I think it starts from the top. The Coach needs to demand it. The top players need to lead by example. In that order.

A top defensive Forward in the League.
- MJL

yeah. a datsyuk, bergeron, toews type

Not the time to not have control of your game or lose confidence.......If anything I can see fatigue being the main factor for him.

Conditioning will or should be a big focus of his in the off-season.
- ob18

He's a big kid. Probably played more games this season then he ever has. He was going to wear down. It's hard to keep your conditioning up when you're that age during the season.

He's a big kid. Probably played more games this season then he ever has. He was going to wear down. It's hard to keep your conditioning up when you're that age during the season.
- mayorofangrytown

He should probably be in that annual Caps/Flyers rookie game next season no?

A top defensive Forward in the League.
- MJL

So say someone who finished in the top ten in Selke voting? I mean they'd be top 10 of 400+ forwards, that would be pretty elite no?

He should probably be in that annual Caps/Flyers rookie game next season no?
- flyer_nutter

If they have it, you'd think he'd be front and center.

I agree. Although I see more of a defensive commitment from the Pens then I do the Flyers. Even if it doesn't always show. I think it starts from the top. The Coach needs to demand it. The top players need to lead by example. In that order.
- MJL

eh, comes in spurts. the true defensive teams take pride in making it a part of their game. the pens play it when they feel like it, making it all the more sickening

So say someone who finished in the top ten in Selke voting? I mean they'd be top 10 of 400+ forwards, that would be pretty elite no?
- mayorofangrytown

Not necessarily. A lot of award voting is hype. Some players are voted for based on reputation a lot of times. For instance when Mike Richards was a Selke finalist, with the Flyers. He was an outstanding player on the Penalty Kill. And his shorthanded scoring got him the votes. But as far as a Even Strength defender. Richards is solid, but not a standout equal to the likes of Toews, J. Staal, or Bergeron currently.

eh, comes in spurts. the true defensive teams take pride in making it a part of their game. the pens play it when they feel like it, making it all the more sickening
- stayinthefnnet

I think that's the key. They take as much pride in defensive play as they do is scoring goals. That's the team wide attitude that has to be in place. And that has to come from the Coaches, to the leadership, and filtered through the team. Every player is capable of improving defensively.

I think that's the key. They take as much pride in defensive play as they do is scoring goals. That's the team wide attitude that has to be in place. And that has to come from the Coaches, to the leadership, and filtered through the team. Every player is capable of improving defensively.
- MJL

yeah. and i think neither the flyers or pens have it, or enough of it. giroux and malkin are both plenty capable of it, but both typically ignore it, malkin in particular. malkin will only try defensively like crazy once he commits a glaring error.

Not necessarily. A lot of award voting is hype. Some players are voted for based on reputation a lot of times. For instance when Mike Richards was a Selke finalist, with the Flyers. He was an outstanding player on the Penalty Kill. And his shorthanded scoring got him the votes. But as far as a Even Strength defender. Richards is solid, but not a standout equal to the likes of Toews, J. Staal, or Bergeron currently.
- MJL

So there's no way to prove one way or another who a Selke Level Player is even if they top the voting year after year.. Gotcha.

So anyone can make a definitive statement one way or another and it can't be challenged because there's no measuring tool except your assertions because what you type are the facts as you see them and you can't define it.

Is that what you're selling?

Just thinking about it, and I think the bright side of Nashville matching Weber oh so long ago is starting to show. If they hadn't matched for Weber, we wouldn't have had an opportunity at one of the numerous elite defensive prospects in this years draft. I think a few years down the road we'll be thanking the hockey-gods that Nashville matched.

So there's no way to prove one way or another who a Selke Level Player is even if they top the voting year after year.. Gotcha.

So anyone can make a definitive statement one way or another and it can't be challenged because there's no measuring tool except your assertions because what you type are the facts as you see them and you can't define it.

Is that what you're selling?
- mayorofangrytown

Yes there is absolutely a way to prove one way or another who is a Selke Level player. Watch them play. Watch Toews and Bergeron play. That's what I'm selling. And I don't need a vote to see that.

If you want to make this into something and that's your read on my statements. Not my problem. You asked me a question, and I gave you an answer. You might want to go back and re-read what I said. Because I didn't say that the voting should be discounted entirely.

yeah. and i think neither the flyers or pens have it, or enough of it. giroux and malkin are both plenty capable of it, but both typically ignore it, malkin in particular. malkin will only try defensively like crazy once he commits a glaring error.
- stayinthefnnet

And Malkin has the ability. You would know better then I would about the Pens. I'm sure you've watched them more then I have.

I really just cant get my head around the absolute horsepoop obsession this team has with forwards who may have skill, but are bad defensively.
- flyer_nutter

We are talking about the Flyers, right? The team that drafted defensive stalwarts like Richards, Couturier, Laughton and Ricci? That identified two-way stars like Gagne, Forsberg, Carter, Zubrus and Sharp? Traded for guys like Brind'Amour and Primeau?

Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek and Schenn make mistakes, but those are part of the learning process for young players. All three guys were drafted as capable two-players.

Hartnell, I'll give you.

And Malkin has the ability. You would know better then I would about the Pens. I'm sure you've watched them more then I have.
- MJL

i also watch a ton of flyers games. and there are players that have the ability. giroux does as well, or else he wouldnt be able to show the flashes that he does. however, like i said, its just that desire and pride to stick to it that neither consistently display

i also watch a ton of flyers games. and there are players that have the ability. giroux does as well, or else he wouldnt be able to show the flashes that he does. however, like i said, its just that desire and pride to stick to it that neither consistently display
- stayinthefnnet

Have to be consistent on it. They all have the ability. Giroux certainly does. Because he has shown that he has. Top to bottom, they all can be better. But there has to be accountability. Whether that comes from the Coaching staff, or the leadership group of the players. But when a talented team buys into a commitment to play both sides of the puck, a lot of good things happen. But the message has to start somewhere.

Have to be consistent on it. They all have the ability. Giroux certainly does. Because he has shown that he has. Top to bottom, they all can be better. But there has to be accountability. Whether that comes from the Coaching staff, or the leadership group of the players. But when a talented team buys into a commitment to play both sides of the puck, a lot of good things happen. But the message has to start somewhere.
- MJL

care to send a telegram to shero and bylsma if you get a chance man?

Who ever thought that Giroux was Crosby? Giroux is going to get his money. And I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it before they even drop the puck for next Season. There are certainly areas of his game that he needs to improve on. Giroux is one of the top player in the League, and he's going to be paid like it. I think you're drastically overstating how much he needs to bounce back.
- MJL

I think people forget that G scored at a point per game clip this year....

I think people forget that G scored at a point per game clip this year....
- Giroux_Is_God

i think thats actually it though. thats actually a little under what the expectations are for him, especially when combined with the defensive inconsistencies he displayed. not a horrible year by any stretch of the imagination, but as one of those top centers, he should be breaking 90 over a full season.