Very true.

Out of the Flyers forwards, too many are pretty bad defensively. The organization chooses to ignore that aspect of a players game too often, and its blamed on systems too much. These guys often come in with that question in their game, drafted, FA or trade.

Simmonds, Hartnell, Giroux, Brayden Schenn and Rinaldo all need major improvement. Briere will probably be gone, and Talbot/Coots had down years defensively.

Still, to me, too many guys that are expected to play big minutes, that are poopty in their own end. Some of the younger players can improve there, I hope they do. Wouldnt bet my testicles on it though. Instead they could look at that aspect of a players game before bringing them in or giving them extensions, which frankly imo they choose to ignore.
- flyer_nutter

true. but the opposite sucks as well. could have a team thats consistently defensively responsible but struggles mightily to scratch out goals. i guess thats the GMs job to find balance. every good team has a mix of the flashy and offensive guys. the flyers certainly could use better defense from their forwards, but i still think their biggest problem was a lack of that good puck moving defender. put letang on the flyers, and i honestly believe they are still playing right now

Top 5 in the league

Crosby

then in no particular order Toews, Malkin, Lundqvist, Stamkos.

Ive got Giroux out of the top 5
- Just5

I'd rank a few guys him above there for just centers, or at least very close to him. Kopitar, Eric Staal, Duschene, and Datsyuk quickly off the top of my head.

Giroux is good, but there are a lot of other good centers in the league, who are better defensively.

Well then that is an issue to me.

You have Giroux already sub par defensively, and making stupid decisions with the puck at times.

I really just cant get my head around the absolute horsepoop obsession this team has with forwards who may have skill, but are bad defensively. Hopefully Schenn improves there. Or imo his best hope will be as a winger.
- flyer_nutter

you continue to rail on this but i literally dont see an "absolute horsehit obsession"

go through the other teams in the league. Not every forward is a selke candidate

true. but the opposite sucks as well. could have a team thats consistently defensively responsible but struggles mightily to scratch out goals. i guess thats the GMs job to find balance. every good team has a mix of the flashy and offensive guys. the flyers certainly could use better defense from their forwards, but i still think their biggest problem was a lack of that good puck moving defender. put letang on the flyers, and i honestly believe they are still playing right now
- stayinthefnnet

For sure.

I think that puck mover who can actually play good defense is a real need. Not a guy like Leopold or Mike Green.

Balance is the biggest thing this Flyer team needs. The last time they really were imo was when they made the SCF with Pronger.

To be honest its not his skill that is the problem to me.

The subpar defensive play is the biggest concern. Really (frank)ing tired of this team continuing to build an offense on forwards who have bad defensive games to begin with.
- flyer_nutter

Two of their top draft picks in the last two drafts. Couturier and Laughton. Are known as solid defensive players. They signed players such as Fedetenko and Talbot to add a checking presence. Traded for Voracek who has a solid two way game.

Who ever thought that Giroux was Crosby? Giroux is going to get his money. And I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it before they even drop the puck for next Season. There are certainly areas of his game that he needs to improve on. Giroux is one of the top player in the League, and he's going to be paid like it. I think you're drastically overstating how much he needs to bounce back.
- MJL

i think giroux next contract will be fair market value. he is every bit as good as guys like getzlaf and perry to get a similar deal. i guess my biggest gripe is what is currently defined as fair market value for some stars, but that is what it is.

I'd rank a few guys him above there for just centers, or at least very close to him. Kopitar, Eric Staal, Duschene, and Datsyuk quickly off the top of my head.

Giroux is good, but there are a lot of other good centers in the league, who are better defensively.
- flyer_nutter

feels weird rallying for giroux here, but id take him ahead of every center on that list if starting a team tomorrow. (granted dats is only because of age purposes, but still)

Well then that is an issue to me.

You have Giroux already sub par defensively, and making stupid decisions with the puck at times.

I really just cant get my head around the absolute horsepoop obsession this team has with forwards who may have skill, but are bad defensively. Hopefully Schenn improves there. Or imo his best hope will be as a winger.
- flyer_nutter

They all can improve there. Including Giroux. Most young Forwards grow into the defensive side of the game.

you continue to rail on this but i literally dont see an "absolute horsehit obsession"

go through the other teams in the league. Not every forward is a selke candidate
- Crimsoninja

Hartnell, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and Giroux are all expected to play pretty important roles on the team. Yet they are all bad defensively.

Frankly the only thing imo that is even remotely close to a Selke candidate was a young kid in Coots. Too many on that forward core are poor in their own zone, and had those questions even before the arrival in Philly.

I'd rank a few guys him above there for just centers, or at least very close to him. Kopitar, Eric Staal, Duschene, and Datsyuk quickly off the top of my head.

Giroux is good, but there are a lot of other good centers in the league, who are better defensively.
- flyer_nutter

Duchesne isnt in their realm. Datsyuk is #6 and then kopitar, E Staal, Giroux, many more on that level.

Hartnell, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and Giroux are all expected to play pretty important roles on the team. Yet they are all bad defensively.

Frankly the only thing imo that is even remotely close to a Selke candidate was a young kid in Coots. Too many on that forward core are poor in their own zone, and had those questions even before the arrival in Philly.
- flyer_nutter

Simmonds is really really bad. Schenn will get better. Simmonds is bad, did I mention that?

You are dead on to me in that last point.

I dont view him as a real franchise top 5 guy in the league. He can be, he is still young, but he needs to improve parts of his game consistently.
- flyer_nutter

Is Stamkos a top 5 franchise guy in the League. Because he's not known as a solid defensive player. Neither is Crosby. Defense is a team game. Young player can get better, and a Coach can emphasize that part of the game and improve it with systems play, and injecting the discipline in the team that is needed.

Hartnell, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and Giroux are all expected to play pretty important roles on the team. Yet they are all bad defensively.

Frankly the only thing imo that is even remotely close to a Selke candidate was a young kid in Coots. Too many on that forward core are poor in their own zone, and had those questions even before the arrival in Philly.
- flyer_nutter

maybe its just me, but i wouldnt view hartnell as a long term piece anymore. his age, salary, and the fact that simmonds will mature into him kind of makes him the odd man out in my eyes. however, coots is going to be great, and laughton looked like a real keeper. a core of giroux, voracek, schenn, simmonds, coots, and laughton has an incredible amount of skill and defensive capabilities if they play up to what they can.

Hartnell, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and Giroux are all expected to play pretty important roles on the team. Yet they are all bad defensively.

Frankly the only thing imo that is even remotely close to a Selke candidate was a young kid in Coots. Too many on that forward core are poor in their own zone, and had those questions even before the arrival in Philly.
- flyer_nutter

i dont think the flyers forward group is drastically worse defensively than any other team around the NHL

Simmonds is really really bad. Schenn will get better. Simmonds is bad, did I mention that?
- Just5

simmonds d leaves some to be desired, but he is a player you win with. gladly take him on any team

Hartnell, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and Giroux are all expected to play pretty important roles on the team. Yet they are all bad defensively.

Frankly the only thing imo that is even remotely close to a Selke candidate was a young kid in Coots. Too many on that forward core are poor in their own zone, and had those questions even before the arrival in Philly.
- flyer_nutter

How many teams have more then one or two Selke level forwards?

simmonds d leaves some to be desired, but he is a player you win with. gladly take him on any team
- stayinthefnnet

Im just talking about his d game

i dont think the flyers forward group is drastically worse defensively than any other team around the NHL
- Crimsoninja

yeah. im not going to say they are a group of patrice bergerons, but i think the inability to get the puck out of the zone due to a lack of a good mobile defender makes the forwards look worse than they are defensively. it also kills their five on five play in transition.

i dont think the flyers forward group is drastically worse defensively than any other team around the NHL
- Crimsoninja

I think the overall team defense was one of the poorest in the League. But I don't think it's because the Flyers Forwards are incapable of playing better defensively. A lot of it has to do with how they play, and the lack of commitment to team defense from the guy behind the bench on down.

Potential two-way checking liner with good speed and some grit despite being a little undersized. I'd liken his offensive upside and playing style to Max Talbot.
- bmeltzer

Jake Patterson will be in net tonight per John Matisz

How many teams have more then one or two Selke level forwards?
- MJL

Kings

Kings
- 2Real

eh. they also play a very tight style. i guess an argument can be made that they play with what the have, but still. the kings are markedly different from the pens or flyers

eh. they also play a very tight style. i guess an argument can be made that they play with what the have, but still. the kings are markedly different from the pens or flyers
- stayinthefnnet

Kings don't have a single Selke level Forward. They have a lot of Forwards who are very responsible defensively. And they are committed to playing well defensively. And it started with Terry Murray who demanded it. And it continues under Sutter.

Jake Patterson will be in net tonight per John Matisz
- ob18

Not a surprise there at all. Stolarz is done for the season. Shame, poor way for him to end it.

Kings don't have a single Selke level Forward. They have a lot of Forwards who are very responsible defensively. And they are committed to playing well defensively. And it started with Terry Murray who demanded it. And it continues under Sutter.
- MJL

Define Selke Level Forwrd.