As you said earlier, our loss wasn't a line-up issue. It was 18 guys who decided they didn't want to play anymore, with 10 minutes left and a 3 goal lead in game 7.
- Feeling Glucky?

If I had a nickel for every time you essentially wrote this same post this season, I would be retired on the Costa del Sol by now.

I agree with you on bozak. But getting a guy who isn't much better and and cost more doesn't help us.


The debate started with the Berger trade idea: kulemin + gunner for stastny and the dumping grabo for nothing.


IMO adding stastny and subtracting those 3 makes us weaker.
- burn

oh well ok..

yes.. agree 100%

stastny does not equal all 3 of those guys at all.

but he is better than bozak.. and personally i'd rather pay statsny 6million for a couple years than bozak 4.5 for 5

Grabovski played in a defensive role, with less icetime than stastny and what happened? And he makes 1mil less and people hate the grabo contract.


Stastny isn't an upgrade enough for us.
- burn

Problem is you're not going to get another team's undisputed no. 1 centre without gutting your team, draft picks and/or prospects.

And the last 3 years have been in decline and basically put up grabo # at a higher price .
- burn

Not really. His "decline" coincided with the arrival of Duchene and RoR. Forgive me but I'm going to utilize some reason and suggest that his numbers declined as his role changed (and his linemates).

Grabbo was a 50 pt centre ......then this year he was put into a different role and became a 30 pt centre.

Stastny was a 80 pt centre .....then his role changed and he became a 50 pt centre.

Put either back into their original roles and - given their age and history - they probably return to their previous offensive stats.

Problem is you're not going to get another team's undisputed no. 1 centre without gutting your team, draft picks and/or prospects.
- fifty__missions

We need to upgrade c, but its not the biggest issue.

Not really. His "decline" coincided with the arrival of Duchene and RoR. Forgive me but I'm going to utilize some reason and suggest that his numbers declined as his role changed (and his linemates).

Grabbo was a 50 pt centre ......then this year he was put into a different role and became a 30 pt centre.

Stastny was a 80 pt centre .....then his role changed and he became a 50 pt centre.

Put either back into their original roles and - given their age and history - they probably return to their previous offensive stats.
- The Law

Fun fact, Bozak is only 4 months younger than Stastny

We need to upgrade c, but its not the biggest issue.
- burn

On that I agree.

oh well ok..

yes.. agree 100%

stastny does not equal all 3 of those guys at all.

but he is better than bozak.. and personally i'd rather pay statsny 6million for a couple years than bozak 4.5 for 5
- Dozzer

I'd prefer Stastny and Bozak, with Grabo gone.

Fun fact, Bozak is only 4 months younger than Stastny
- AdamFrench

But he's got the moustache of a 17 year old.

But he's got the moustache of a 17 year old.
- The Law

And the hair of a Thailandese Lady-boy

Not really. His "decline" coincided with the arrival of Duchene and RoR. Forgive me but I'm going to utilize some reason and suggest that his numbers declined as his role changed (and his linemates).

Grabbo was a 50 pt centre ......then this year he was put into a different role and became a 30 pt centre.

Stastny was a 80 pt centre .....then his role changed and he became a 50 pt centre.

Put either back into their original roles and - given their age and history - they probably return to their previous offensive stats.
- The Law

Perhaps he was taken out of that previous role because h was t cutting it anymore?


Neither of those 2 have done what stastny did, yet they are still in that role. If stastny could get back to those number don't you think col would put him there?

IMO adding stastny and subtracting those 3 makes us weaker.
- burn

Subtracting what three?

I'd prefer Stastny and Bozak, with Grabo gone.
- fifty__missions

dont be so quick to toss a guy under the bus after one bad season

grabo, for the most part, has been an effective producer for the leafs

guys are allowed to have off-seasons.. it would be flat out stupid to bail on a guy who has had all but one productive season

this is the type of attitude that leaves leaf fans kicking themselves in the ass in the end. bail on the guy due to impatience only to watch him go somewhere else and thrive

Subtracting what three?
- Dirte

The proposal was stastny for kulemin+ gunner and dump grabo for nothing.

dont be so quick to toss a guy under the bus after one bad season

grabo, for the most part, has been an effective producer for the leafs

guys are allowed to have off-seasons.. it would be flat out stupid to bail on a guy who has had all but one productive season

this is the type of attitude that leaves leaf fans kicking themselves in the ass in the end. bail on the guy due to impatience only to watch him go somewhere else and thrive
- Dozzer

Agreed.

Played with heart? Are you joking? #43 (and 71) was one the biggest wussies I have seen play professional hockey in my 44 years of watching it. His attitude was great? Like flying off to Paris and breaking an ankle? He was the master at shooting pucks into shin pads and having the play go right past him the other way. He never saw a corner he couldn't avoid, and he didn't have the strength to move my 4 year old daughter out of the crease (he tried, believe me). He racked up a bunch of points on the PP, no doubt, and that is the only area he excelled at - passing. He made a good first pass out of his zone, and could set a guy up for a one timer nicely as well. That's it. Nothing more of value to him.
- hscesq

43+ years.

Perhaps he was taken out of that previous role because h was t cutting it anymore?


Neither of those 2 have done what stastny did, yet they are still in that role. If stastny could get back to those number don't you think col would put him there?
- burn

Well I don't know all the details but I think it's a simple as having 3 very good centres. MD is the best offensive guy they have - he's an elite offensive centre. RoR and Stastny are both very good 2-way guys but obviously sacrifice their offensive numbers because of those roles.

I'm willing to bet that he can find those numbers again with quality wingers and ice time. Plus it's a contract year - never a bad thing for a players motivation to produce.

As you said earlier, our loss wasn't a line-up issue. It was 18 guys who decided they didn't want to play anymore, with 10 minutes left and a 3 goal lead in game 7.
- Feeling Glucky?

so basically, when the Leafs decide they want to play, it's inconceivable that any team in the NHL can play with them?

so basically, when the Leafs decide they want to play, it's inconceivable that any team in the NHL can play with them?
- DoubleDown

didnt want to play anymore is wrong

they did what they did all damn season

get a lead and then sit back and try to play a defensive shell game..

they suck at it.. big time.

the leafs best defense is to continue offensive pressure. whenever they try and collapse and protect a lead.. they typically blow it.. been that way all season long

Well I don't know all the details but I think it's a simple as having 3 very good centres. MD is the best offensive guy they have - he's an elite offensive centre. RoR and Stastny are both very good 2-way guys but obviously sacrifice their offensive numbers because of those roles.

I'm willing to bet that he can find those numbers again with quality wingers and ice time. Plus it's a contract year - never a bad thing for a players motivation to produce.
- The Law

Even if Stastny can get back to what he did 4 years ago I don't think adding that and lossing Kulemin+Gunner+ Grabo helps the Leafs. They need more of Kulemin and Gunner.

Duchsene's best year is still below Stastny's 3rd best year. Stastny isn't where he was 4 years ago for a reason. I don't have full confidence that he returns to PPG pace. COL obviously doesn't either or else they would be using him in that position and wouldn't be trading him.

didnt want to play anymore is wrong

they did what they did all damn season

get a lead and then sit back and try to play a defensive shell game..

they suck at it.. big time.

the leafs best defense is to continue offensive pressure. whenever they try and collapse and protect a lead.. they typically blow it.. been that way all season long
- Dozzer

Exactly.. RC admited the mistake of not having them skate for the last 10 mins. Dropping back in a shell didn't work all year.

didnt want to play anymore is wrong

they did what they did all damn season

get a lead and then sit back and try to play a defensive shell game..

they suck at it.. big time.

the leafs best defense is to continue offensive pressure. whenever they try and collapse and protect a lead.. they typically blow it.. been that way all season long
- Dozzer

Carlyle will be working on that. You bet your ass.
Could you imagine how good the Leafs would be if they could sit on a lead properly?

Exactly.. RC admited the mistake of not having them skate for the last 10 mins. Dropping back in a shell didn't work all year.
- burn

they are just bad at it.. they dont have the right personnel on the back end.

Carlyle will be working on that. You bet your ass.
Could you imagine how good the Leafs would be if they could sit on a lead properly?
- UsernameUnknown

i honestly think they need some new back end help

stay at home guys like fraser.. but better

fraser is great for the bottom pairing.. we need his ilk with the skill level of a second and top pairing guy

dont be so quick to toss a guy under the bus after one bad season

grabo, for the most part, has been an effective producer for the leafs

guys are allowed to have off-seasons.. it would be flat out stupid to bail on a guy who has had all but one productive season

this is the type of attitude that leaves leaf fans kicking themselves in the ass in the end. bail on the guy due to impatience only to watch him go somewhere else and thrive
- Dozzer

It's not "impatience" that has me choosing Bozak over Grabo. I simply prefer Bozak to Grabo and think he brings more to the team.