Its way too much... Booth will get bought out or be a salary dump... no way we give up rielly unless its as part of a deal for a franchise D, which Bieksa is not.
- lumlums

Teams don't give up franchise defensemen anymore, in any kind of deal. A 1st line D like Bieska is the best you'll get.

He would be an excellent complement to Dion, and together they'd be one of the best D pairings in the league.

90% would right after the game 7 meltdown.


Now after reassessing Dions stats that may be down to 50-65%


These are scientific figures.
- robin_steele264

That suggests that 50-65% of Leafs fans are idiots. Now, I agree some are pretty dumb, but not that high. People only thnk Dion makes 'bonehead' plays because he plays so many minutes and people don't watch other teams. I guarentee you that no matter what team you watch, your number one D man plays too much and makes some dumb plays, but only because of a little thing called confirmation bias. This is where you notice things that confirm your pre-existing belief.
The bottom line is that #3 is a rockstar and an amazing combo of toughness and scoring. Even if you look at guys who are supposedly better - Doughty, Karlson, Letang, their actual defensive zone play is much worse than Dions.

I'm actually nice in there because they get trolled so much
- Yeti1181

Having Clouts blog and then no ref certainly doesn't help things

Think we could take vinny out of Tampa and get a first or A prospect out of it. Kill two birds first line center And build our already stocked cupboards
Edit or a d man
- Yeti1181

meh, not interested in the ol' geezer

No no no. Phaneuf is untouchable. Outside of Gardiner's potential, there is no on on the roster even in his league. The Leafs have one of the best forward groups in hockey and if they only had an NHL defense corps, they would one of the best 5 teams in the NHL. Lets face it, if Frasor has to play more than 12 minutes, he is terrible. Gunnerson is good, but not as your number 2. Franson makes a great nunber 5 but sucks if you have to play him too much. In fact, a third pairing of Frasor and Franson is great, Dion is number 1. So what you need is top pairing guy to play with Phaneuf and you need to replace Gunnerson - even though i like him - with someone with grit to pair with Gardner. A centre? not a concern. Grabbo is highly paid, but hes a great grinder and i'd hate to lose him. If we arent in cap trouble then our 3 centres are actually a strenght, especially with Colborne pushing everyone. FACE IT BOZAK IS A NUMBER ONE CENTRE.
- Timmy_Bee

Phaneuf is not untouchable. The Leafs don't have one of the best forward groups in the NHL. A centre is most definitely a concern. Bozak is capable of playing on the first line, but he's not a very good first line centre. He's also not even under contract right now. And Colborne isn't pushing anyone, he wouldn't have been playing if not for injuries.

No no no. Phaneuf is untouchable. Outside of Gardiner's potential, there is no on on the roster even in his league. The Leafs have one of the best forward groups in hockey and if they only had an NHL defense corps, they would one of the best 5 teams in the NHL. Lets face it, if Frasor has to play more than 12 minutes, he is terrible. Gunnerson is good, but not as your number 2. Franson makes a great nunber 5 but sucks if you have to play him too much. In fact, a third pairing of Frasor and Franson is great, Dion is number 1. So what you need is top pairing guy to play with Phaneuf and you need to replace Gunnerson - even though i like him - with someone with grit to pair with Gardner. A centre? not a concern. Grabbo is highly paid, but hes a great grinder and i'd hate to lose him. If we arent in cap trouble then our 3 centres are actually a strenght, especially with Colborne pushing everyone. FACE IT BOZAK IS A NUMBER ONE CENTRE.
- Timmy_Bee

I think a number 1/2 d should be priority let's face facts even with bozak our top line produces and our second will also, we need to keep the chances down and puck out of the net. So Shea webber ha ha ha

What's with the love of Bieska he garbage in my opinion nothing but a cheap shot artist.
- Yeti1181

A couple of well placed cheap shots on those Bruins crashing the net unmolested at the end of game seven, and we'd be playing the Rangers now.

Having Clouts blog and then no ref certainly doesn't help things
- lumlums

He admitted he just couldn't think of more names bastard.

Teams don't give up franchise defensemen anymore, in any kind of deal. A 1st line D like Bieska is the best you'll get.

He would be an excellent complement to Dion, and together they'd be one of the best D pairings in the league.
- The Shrike

Oh, I'm not opposed to him as he is better than many of our D... however to give up Rielly for him is just ludicrous. Kid plays with the speed and skill of Karlsson but is almost 30lbs bigger already at the age of 19; I guarantee that we lose almost any trade with Rielly unless we truly get something TRULY significant back.

A couple of well placed cheap shots on those Bruins crashing the net unmolested at the end of game seven, and we'd be playing the Rangers now.
- The Shrike

He's not that good defensively van d is poop half the reason they didn't make it farther be like get the smartest kid from the special education program sure you're number 1 but we all know the truth.

He admitted he just couldn't think of more names bastard.
- Yeti1181

I just saw.... at least you're memorable bud

Is it so widely believed that Bieksa is a better player than Phaneuf? Really?
- BetterCallSaul

It is not widely believed at all. Phanuef is considered - and maybe not by the idotic mouth breathing portion of the fanbase - to be a top ten NHL defensemen. He recieved Norris trophy votes this year. Bieksa is older and more injury prone. Though I agree he'd be a nice number two to ride shotgun with big D. which is truely the most pressing need of this team, not a centre (a position where we are basically stacked).

I just saw.... at least you're memorable bud
- lumlums

It's my ugly mug

[quote=UsernameUnknown]


Grabbo only had a bad year if you attend the Steve Simmons school of making up random opinions and printing them in a paper only right wing D bags read and pretending they are true. In reality, the coach asked him to play a different role and he delivered. He was flat out great in the playoffs too, and people are saying Buy out? Jesus. If anything you want to get more Grabovskis not less. I think sure, in a vaccuum he makes too much for a third line centre, but so what, you pay your goalie peanuts so whats the big deal?

It's my ugly mug
- Yeti1181

Grabbo only had a bad year if you attend the Steve Simmons school of making up random opinions and printing them in a paper only right wing D bags read and pretending they are true. In reality, the coach asked him to play a different role and he delivered. He was flat out great in the playoffs too, and people are saying Buy out? Jesus. If anything you want to get more Grabovskis not less. I think sure, in a vaccuum he makes too much for a third line centre, but so what, you pay your goalie peanuts so whats the big deal?
- Timmy_Bee

Steve Simmons should never be allowed to write about hockey he knows nothing. He worse the cox and that's bad

Phaneuf is not untouchable. The Leafs don't have one of the best forward groups in the NHL. A centre is most definitely a concern. Bozak is capable of playing on the first line, but he's not a very good first line centre. He's also not even under contract right now. And Colborne isn't pushing anyone, he wouldn't have been playing if not for injuries.
- Dirte

Is that you Mr. Simmons?

Dion certianly is untouchable. He will be resigned. I guarentee it. Who you gonna replace him with? Why would you want to?
Name me five teams with better forwards than the Leafs (1 through 12) - Pgh, Chicago, LA, maybe ST. Louis. Thats it )
Name me a team with three better centres than the Leafs: Pgh, maybe a couple others. Bozak is insanely underrated and you can bank on it that he will be resigned.

Having Clouts blog and then no ref certainly doesn't help things
- lumlums

While I have to give him credit because at least he does more than just summarize other peoples articles, Cloutier is a first class moron.

I think a number 1/2 d should be priority let's face facts even with bozak our top line produces and our second will also, we need to keep the chances down and puck out of the net. So Shea webber ha ha ha
- Yeti1181

A guy to play D with Phanuef is the Leaf's number one off season priority, outside of resigning Phil, Dion and Bozie.

Grabbo only had a bad year if you attend the Steve Simmons school of making up random opinions and printing them in a paper only right wing D bags read and pretending they are true. In reality, the coach asked him to play a different role and he delivered. He was flat out great in the playoffs too, and people are saying Buy out? Jesus. If anything you want to get more Grabovskis not less. I think sure, in a vaccuum he makes too much for a third line centre, but so what, you pay your goalie peanuts so whats the big deal?
- Timmy_Bee

good point. he did his job well as a shutdown centre. and for all I care he can stay on the third line. you overpay him for one more year, then if you wanted, resign a lot cheaper according to his 3rd line position.
the only disadvantage I could see there is that he might not want it. he'd probably much rather be scoring than playing shutdown, not reaching his full offensive potential.

good point. he did his job well as a shutdown centre. and for all I care he can stay on the third line. you overpay him for one more year, then if you wanted, resign a lot cheaper according to his 3rd line position.
the only disadvantage I could see there is that he might not want it. he'd probably much rather be scoring than playing shutdown, not reaching his full offensive potential.
- UsernameUnknown

Still, you can chuck him out on the PP he can move up in the linup when guys get hurt, and he is literaly immunce to concussions. Lets just say that Grabovski is an animal and if he was Canadian he would be the prototypical 'Canadian hockey player'/.

Still, you can chuck him out on the PP he can move up in the linup when guys get hurt, and he is literaly immunce to concussions. Lets just say that Grabovski is an animal and if he was Canadian he would be the prototypical 'Canadian hockey player'/.
- Timmy_Bee

I agree. im just glad im not the only one defending Grabo.
And immune
to concussions:
Renowned neurosurgeon Dr. Charles Tator was not in the arena to assess Toronto Maple Leafs forward Mikhail Grabovski on Tuesday night, but after studying replays of the 27-year-old stumbling around the ice after another big hit, he had a prescription in Monday.“In this particular instance, when I looked at the video, he did have a lot of features of concussion,” Tator said Wednesday. “And if I were sitting there, I would probably have not let him go back. I would say that.
”The Leafs did allow Grabovski to return to the game after he was left dazed following a second crunching hit delivered by Boston Bruins captain Zdeno Chara. Grabovski was assessed on the bench by the team’s trainer, given a clean bill of health and sent back to the ice, where he scored the winning goal with 61 seconds to play in the third period.His return sparked debate on everything from the diagnosis itself to the way in which he was handled after impact. Everyone had an opinion — including the suggestion Grabovski might have been feigning injury to draw a penalty — as the issue of concussion continued to gather steam in light of injuries to Sidney Crosby and Marc Savard.
Chara hammered Grabovski twice on Tuesday. The first left the smaller Leafs player with apparent soreness in his neck, and the second sent Grabovski stumbling to the ice in what appeared to be a daze.
“I feel bruise in my eyes,” he told reporters after he game, “but like I tell it before it give me more motivation to play harder.”

Is that you Mr. Simmons?

Dion certianly is untouchable. He will be resigned. I guarentee it. Who you gonna replace him with? Why would you want to?
Name me five teams with better forwards than the Leafs (1 through 12) - Pgh, Chicago, LA, maybe ST. Louis. Thats it )
Name me a team with three better centres than the Leafs: Pgh, maybe a couple others. Bozak is insanely underrated and you can bank on it that he will be resigned.
- Timmy_Bee

No. Phaneuf is a good dman, and gets a lot of undeserved criticism. But he's not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination.

San Jose has better forwards. Philly does. off the top of my head.

three better centres? Detroit. Chicago, New York, Pitts, San Jose, Boston, Colorado, Los Angeles, Washington.

No. Phaneuf is a good dman, and gets a lot of undeserved criticism. But he's not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination.

San Jose has better forwards. Philly does. off the top of my head.

three better centres? Detroit. Chicago, New York, Pitts, San Jose, Boston, Colorado, Los Angeles, Washington.
- Dirte

Fair enough. Its possible I was geting overly excited, which I should do, because this team is awesome. After a decade of sh !t teams, this is a legitimate team. That being said, The reason I think Phaneuf is untouchable is simply because he plays the only position we need to significantly improve on. He plays the hardest position and the hardest position to find top end talent. Any move that involves trading him only ends with you moving sideways at best because it's unlikely the move involves aquiring Shea Weber or Kris Letang.

As to the forards I submit that Bozak some of those teams have some pretty awesome centres and that having a Thorton or Toews or Crosby means that if you average the skills of the three players on their teams, they come out way on top and that Toronto has no players of that quality. That being said, not all of those teams you named have 3 centres who each are as good as the Leafs Three. Where as those teams have maybe two number ones and a three, the Leafs have 3 1-B's - that even makes any sense. I have been listening to a lot of Cypress Hill since I got of work.

I also think the Leafs 12 is significantly better than the Flyers. We are so used to having bad teams I don't think people quite realize yet just how good a Lupul/Kessel/JVR/Kadri/ set up actually is.

Stastny only has 1 more year on his contract so its not as big of an issue as you would think. He is excellent on faceoffs and his Corsi numbers are great. He was the 2nd best player at worlds as the Captain of team USA putting up 15 points in 9 games and would be the best center on your team automatically if you were able to get him. I think a line with Kessel JVR and Stast would be nasty.

However with all of that said I would still ask for way more than any of you guys would be happy giving up.