UGH. No, this is a special situation where two leaders of the SAME TEAM, were decided on by the MGMT group they were not good enough to win a cup. Within a year the very two same players wound up on the same team, playing very important roles and helped a team win a cup and are currently looking to go back to back. While the team that traded them away appears to be in worse shape.
- ImThatGuy

and this

What philly did was crazy bold. They felt briere and giroux were a better 1/2 combo of leadership and skill than what they had so they unloaded for a crazy good return (potential)

you cant call it a failure just because the other 2 won the cup. call it a failure 4 years from now when briere is gone for nothing and if couturier and schenn dont turn out be anything good.

He had 8 goals. Including game winners. Can't say for sure they won without him.
- sbroads24

3 game winners

one in a 6-1 game
one in a 5-2 game
one in a 2-1 game


They win without him.

At this point in time Philly lost that trade, because again Carter and Richards were very key parts in winning that cup.
- ImThatGuy

So if a last place team say Florida trades stephen weiss to boston for 3 first round draft picks and say Dougie Hamilton and then Boston wins the cup they won that trade?


If you are not winning the cup anyways how do you lose the trade???

Common sense where did you go?

UGH. No, this is a special situation where two leaders of the SAME TEAM, were decided on by the MGMT group they were not good enough to win a cup. Within a year the very two same players wound up on the same team, playing very important roles and helped a team win a cup and are currently looking to go back to back. While the team that traded them away appears to be in worse shape.
- ImThatGuy

Two players that were on the same team, but on the championship team, they played different roles. Nobody ever disputed that they were good players, just not great leaders. LA took the leadership roles from them, and they were much better for it.

What philly did was crazy bold. They felt briere and giroux were a better 1/2 combo of leadership and skill than what they had so they unloaded for a crazy good return (potential)

you cant call it a failure just because the other 2 won the cup. call it a failure 4 years from now when briere is gone for nothing and if couturier and schenn dont turn out be anything good.
- robz228

Pronger.

how would you create the roster for next season, if vanek and miller are gone?

serious question, and assume no big additions
- homiedclown

Im not sure what we'll get for Vanek and Miller.

My target for Vanek would be #4 overall and Nashville. While I think it would take a lot, I dont think its difficult. I would use a combination of Vanek at 50%, Grigorenko/Hodgson, and #8 or #16 to try and find a package to work.

My target for Miller would be first rounder in 2014. I wouldnt be displeased if thats all we got. I'm looking to Phoenix. Miller at 50% for their 2014 1st rounder, and maybe a 4th rounder this year since we dont have one. That would give us 2 first rounders next year to help us out. In their eyes, it might be a gamble worth taking if they feel Miller at $3M is a better option than resigning Smith. Gets him closer to LA and out west with his wife, although I dont even think thats an issue.

So judging on what I expect out of the returns, our roster will look pretty fickle. But thats what a rebuild is supposed to be.

With Vanek gone we are looking at a top line of Ennis - Hodgson - Stafford.

winning a stanley cup has nothing to do with winning a trade. Period.

3 game winners

one in a 6-1 game
one in a 5-2 game
one in a 2-1 game


They win without him.
- dadeadhead

Maybe they do. For sure we can't say, he scored too much

So if a last place team say Florida trades stephen weiss to boston for 3 first round draft picks and say Dougie Hamilton and then Boston wins the cup they won that trade?


If you are not winning the cup anyways how do you lose the trade???

Common sense where did you go?
- toddkac

If I get a high end prospect, say Nathan MacKinnon just as an example, and then you tell me that if I trade him right after I draft him, I am going to get enough pieces to guarantee me a cup this season, but then I miss the playoffs for the next ten straight, I make that deal in a heartbeat. One championship is worth that much.

So if a last place team say Florida trades stephen weiss to boston for 3 first round draft picks and say Dougie Hamilton and then Boston wins the cup they won that trade?


If you are not winning the cup anyways how do you lose the trade???

Common sense where did you go?
- toddkac

Hey you win bro. You know everything. Congrats.

He had 8 goals. Including game winners. Can't say for sure they won without him.
- sbroads24

Plus he solidified their top6, his addition also helped the other lines...
If memory serves, LA was one of the worst scoring teams all year & after the Carter trade became one of the better scoring teams the rest of the way and on through the playoffs
To say he didn't play a big role in them winning the cup would be crazy IMO...
LA did have a lot of other nice pieces playing great (Brown & Quick were amazing in the playoffs)...
So maybe they would've won it anyways,
But the Carter seemed to bring it all together

Hey you win bro. You know everything. Congrats.
- Buffalo--Sabres

sorry I had to exaggerate but you finally get it

Like I said before I believe he meant that as in they were willing to part ways with two key players without hesitation so it's entirely possible that they'd be willing to deal hartnell too (again in response to me saying that I don't think they'd deal hartnell because he's a fan favourite).
- Sabresfan-365

Correct me if im wrong but wasnt the whole purpose of the trade was they were locker room cancers in Philly? Had nothing to do with talent just needed to cut their weight

If I get a high end prospect, say Nathan MacKinnon just as an example, and then you tell me that if I trade him right after I draft him, I am going to get enough pieces to guarantee me a cup this season, but then I miss the playoffs for the next ten straight, I make that deal in a heartbeat. One championship is worth that much.
- buffalofan19

what if scenarios....think NHL teams deal with those? So why do we?

I can tell it's going to be a fun summer around these parts...

Hey you win bro. You know everything. Congrats.
- Buffalo--Sabres

the argument shouldnt be about winning the trade. kings clearly "won"

but philly didnt lose at any trades. back to what sbroads said. only team that "lost" was CBJ

Maybe they do. For sure we can't say, he scored too much
- sbroads24

0 goals in 15 games

8 goals in 5 games.


He was invisible the 1st three rounds.

the argument shouldnt be about winning the trade. kings clearly "won"

but philly didnt lose at any trades. back to what sbroads said. only team that "lost" was CBJ
- robz228

I never said anything about winning trades. I just said its not impossible that Philly management parts with anyone. They've proven they will.

I can tell it's going to be a fun summer around these parts...
- Whatnot78

This is more interesting than any other day. 5 or so people having a real hockey discussion and 1 dbag trying to e-peen over everyone else with excessive use of the headslap emoticon

Correct me if im wrong but wasnt the whole purpose of the trade was they were locker room cancers in Philly? Had nothing to do with talent just needed to cut their weight
- hubie

I read so many conflicting reports I'm not sure what to believe. Before that year everyone considered Richards to be a hardworking leader of men so I really don't know.

the argument shouldnt be about winning the trade. kings clearly "won"

but philly didnt lose at any trades. back to what sbroads said. only team that "lost" was CBJ
- robz228

Depends on what they do with the draft pick.

Im not sure what we'll get for Vanek and Miller.

My target for Vanek would be #4 overall and Nashville. While I think it would take a lot, I dont think its difficult. I would use a combination of Vanek at 50%, Grigorenko/Hodgson, and #8 or #16 to try and find a package to work.

My target for Miller would be first rounder in 2014. I wouldnt be displeased if thats all we got. I'm looking to Phoenix. Miller at 50% for their 2014 1st rounder, and maybe a 4th rounder this year since we dont have one. That would give us 2 first rounders next year to help us out. In their eyes, it might be a gamble worth taking if they feel Miller at $3M is a better option than resigning Smith. Gets him closer to LA and out west with his wife, although I dont even think thats an issue.

So judging on what I expect out of the returns, our roster will look pretty fickle. But thats what a rebuild is supposed to be.

With Vanek gone we are looking at a top line of Ennis - Hodgson - Stafford.

- theblueandgold

I LOVE Barkov...
I think he'll be better than both Drouin and MacKinnon...
But to give ALL that up for him?
No freaking way!

I never said anything about winning trades. I just said its not impossible that Philly management parts with anyone. They've proven they will.
- Buffalo--Sabres

o. ya. the convo spiraled into a different area code after that though

This is more interesting than any other day. 5 or so people having a real hockey discussion and 1 dbag trying to e-peen over everyone else with excessive use of the headslap emoticon
- robz228

who is that?