It's not a deal that the Canucks make to get cap relief, it's a deal to move the franchise forward. Philly is owned by a cable company, they have no money issues! Schenn is an RFA after next year I believe? He's gonna demand a larger salary.
- LeftCoaster

He didn't say Philly had money issues. He said we have cap issues. Adding Kesler and Edler, at $5M each over the next several years, while giving up Simmonds' $3.975M hit and Schenn's RFA years, where he's certainly not going to get the $6.025M difference between Simmonds and your two players' salary, would make it nigh impossible for us to resign Giroux, Couturier, Meszaros, and Read, all of whom reach free agency after next year as well.

Asking Philly to take expensive players in exchange for less expensive players makes the single most important thing we have to do next offseason harder to do. It's not something we're likely to do.

He didn't say Philly had money issues. He said we have cap issues. Adding Kesler and Edler, at $5M each over the next several years, while giving up Simmonds' $2.975M hit and Schenn's RFA years, where he's certainly not going to get the $7.025M difference between Simmonds and your two players' salary, would make it nigh impossible for us to resign Giroux, Couturier, Meszaros, and Read, all of whom reach free agency after next year as well.

Asking Philly to take expensive players in exchange for less expensive players makes the single most important thing we have to do next offseason harder to do. It's not something we're likely to do.
- dilbert719

Your GM is allowed to make other moves, just so you know.

Edit: 2014/15 the Flyers have almost $18 million dollars in cap space. FYI

It's not a deal that the Canucks make to get cap relief, it's a deal to move the franchise forward. Philly is owned by a cable company, they have no money issues! Schenn is an RFA after next year I believe? He's gonna demand a larger salary.
- LeftCoaster

They have cap issues. So, if you don't consider those money issues, then I never mentioned money issues in my post. If you do, then you're dead wrong, they have huge money issues.

They have cap issues. So, if you don't consider those money issues, then I never mentioned money issues in my post. If you do, then you're dead wrong, they have huge money issues.
- Dirte

Next year they have cap issues, but they can be resolved, the following year they are fine.

2013/14 - Pronger 5 million LTIR, buyout options, Briere, Bryz? They'll be fine.

Edit: 2014/15 the Flyers have almost $18 million dollars in cap space. FYI
- LeftCoaster

You mean, before they re-sign Giroux, Couturier, Brayden Schenn, and either re-sign or replace their number 1 Dman?

So, I guess what you're saying is, they're tight for the foreseeable future?

Next year they have cap issues, but they can be resolved, the following year they are fine.
- LeftCoaster

No they're not.

You mean, before they re-sign Giroux, Couturier, Brayden Schenn, and either re-sign or replace their number 1 Dman?

So, I guess what you're saying is, they're tight for the foreseeable future?
- Dirte

They're a cap team, they always push to the cap, most rich teams do.

They don't re-sign Schenn because he plays for the Canucks, and they have their number one dman in Edler.

You mean, before they re-sign Giroux, Couturier, Brayden Schenn, and either re-sign or replace their number 1 Dman?

So, I guess what you're saying is, they're tight for the foreseeable future?
- Dirte

Time to use those compliance buy-outs I guess.

No they're not.
- Dirte

Yes they are.

Assuming they trade us Simmonds (4million) & Schenn (4+million) in the deal.

Time to use those compliance buy-outs I guess.
- AlexF

They wouldn't have to sign Schenn because he'd be playing for the Canucks, in this scenario.

Yes they are.

Assuming they trade us Simmonds (4million) & Schenn (4+million) in the deal.
- LeftCoaster

Side topic but what do you think the likelihood is that Gillis makes some kind of bold move with the core like we've been discussing here? I personally don't think he has the guts.

Some good points you raise here but hockey development has proven time and again that it's far from linear. If it were that obvious, GM signing and draft selection mistakes would not be made so frequently. Because Couturier projects to have some upside in his development doesn't mean he's a guarantee to reach it in a few years or ever. Unless the young player in the conversation is an outrageous talent (which sorry but Couts is not) I would always take the player I see over the player I think I'll see some years down the road. That's just me perhaps.

PHI need some quality on the blueline and much like anything in life, you have to give to get. It's not that any Canuck fan wants to trade Edler but we realize that some type of reset is required and we may have to give up depth in certain areas (D in our case) for gain in others (FW). To think a team will solve their major gaps but signing UFAs or exchanging your spare parts in a trade is wishful thinking at best.

One look at this list tells me Edler would slot into your top pairing immediately:

Luke Schenn
Erik Gustafsson
Bruno Gervais
Andreas Lilja
Kimmo Timonen
Matt Konan
- AlexF

Yeah, players don't always develop in a straight line. Hell, this was Couts' second year, and he fell into the sophomore slump, same as most players do. The Flyers have a tendency to try making the big splash, trading or signing guys to fill hole after hole, and it leaves the cupboard bare, the roster mismatched, and the cap stretched to bursting, since we're always adding expensive vets rather than cost-effective youth. If Edler was that one guy to make the team a Cup favorite, and cost concerns wouldn't bite us in the ass, I'd make that trade, too. However, there comes a point where you have to pick some young players and say "these are the guys we want to build the team upon." For me, Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, the Schenns, and Couturier are those guys. I probably do overvalue him for that reason, but that doesn't mean I should just go "Oh, I'm overvaluing him" and drop him.

I agree that you can't expect to fill major holes by trading spare parts, but the thing is, we weren't talking about spare parts to begin with. The original suggestion was Scott Hartnell, a fairly consistent 20 goal scorer with 30 goal potential, who's been an All-Star, and fills a fairly significant hole the Canucks have, just as Edler would fill a hole in Philly.

Also, where the heck did you get that defensive roster from? That may be what the Flyers iced in one game this season, but the full team defense without the spate of injuries that knocked out 5 or 6 guys from our D looks more like this:

Kimmo Timonen
Luke Schenn
Brayden Coburn
Andrej Meszaros
Nicklas Grossmann
Erik Gustafsson

Honestly, Edler may be on the top pairing with Timonen, but the way Luke grew this past year, the top pair might be Timonen-Schenn, with Edler still being our #3 defenseman.

Wise to put Paajarvi and a 1st. That's actually charitable in not asking for one of the other kids or Gagner. The Oilers may not be prepared to make that move this year with the 7th to a division rival, but this is actually one of the more fair in terms of value.
- Morris

Maybe value wise but not need wise. MPS plus 7th overall would be an overpay for Edler because Edler is not the Dman Edmonton needs. Yes he's good, but he is not the top 2 two way guy. MPS plus one of our 2nds I would consider.

Side topic but what do you think the likelihood is that Gillis makes some kind of bold move with the core like we've been discussing here? I personally don't think he has the guts.
- AlexF

At this point, I have no idea what goes on in his head. But it's time for him to sink or swim!

It's not that I "want" him gone, the franchise needs to move in a different direction. The guy has the ability to be a tremendous player, he has great trade value. Never fall in love with a player, you need to move assets to keep the franchise moving forward and to stay relevant. Trevor Linden was traded for Bertuzzi, McCabe and Ruutu, Bert became one of the best power forwards in the game and McCabe was used to acquire the pick Burke used to get Henrik. Sometimes you gotta do what's best for the organization!
- LeftCoaster

I get that. But if we're going to discuss moving core players, I think the Sedins names should come up long before Ryan Kesler.

Just my opinion.

What about Bobby Ryan a big tough guy that would help the canucks. He does not fit into the Ducks anymore with Perry and Getzlaf. They also have Etem and many other young players coming up. The Ducks also need Dmen. A Ryan for Edler trade with pieces around them both could be worked out.

They're a cap team, they always push to the cap, most rich teams do.

They don't re-sign Schenn because he plays for the Canucks, and they have their number one dman in Edler.
- LeftCoaster

They're not a cap team. They're a well past the cap team, right now.

Time to use those compliance buy-outs I guess.
- AlexF

Yeah, they'll have to, just to get under the cap. But, that's exactly why they won't be picking up big salary players, at the expense of ELC and RFA players.

I know that's exactly why you guys would suggest a trade like that.... it suits what the Canucks need to do. But, that totally ignores that the Flyers have to do exactly the same thing. They're not going to solve your problems and make their own worse in the process.

Yes they are.

Assuming they trade us Simmonds (4million) & Schenn (4+million) in the deal.
- LeftCoaster

And that puts them..... $15M offside this year? I actually think the NHL wouldn't even approve the deal... Isn't the limit 10% past the cap, during the offseason?

Yeah, players don't always develop in a straight line. Hell, this was Couts' second year, and he fell into the sophomore slump, same as most players do. The Flyers have a tendency to try making the big splash, trading or signing guys to fill hole after hole, and it leaves the cupboard bare, the roster mismatched, and the cap stretched to bursting, since we're always adding expensive vets rather than cost-effective youth. If Edler was that one guy to make the team a Cup favorite, and cost concerns wouldn't bite us in the ass, I'd make that trade, too. However, there comes a point where you have to pick some young players and say "these are the guys we want to build the team upon." For me, Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, the Schenns, and Couturier are those guys. I probably do overvalue him for that reason, but that doesn't mean I should just go "Oh, I'm overvaluing him" and drop him.

I agree that you can't expect to fill major holes by trading spare parts, but the thing is, we weren't talking about spare parts to begin with. The original suggestion was Scott Hartnell, a fairly consistent 20 goal scorer with 30 goal potential, who's been an All-Star, and fills a fairly significant hole the Canucks have, just as Edler would fill a hole in Philly.

Also, where the heck did you get that defensive roster from? That may be what the Flyers iced in one game this season, but the full team defense without the spate of injuries that knocked out 5 or 6 guys from our D looks more like this:

Kimmo Timonen
Luke Schenn
Brayden Coburn
Andrej Meszaros
Nicklas Grossmann
Erik Gustafsson

Honestly, Edler may be on the top pairing with Timonen, but the way Luke grew this past year, the top pair might be Timonen-Schenn, with Edler still being our #3 defenseman.
- dilbert719

Sorry, pulled that list from the CBS website. Not sure at what point in the season it was accurate. Still, I do think Edler > L Schenn without even blinking so he'd line up with Timmonen (who is 38 by the way and will need to be replaced soon anyway).

I realize Hartnell is a talent and fills a particular niche on any roster, but I do think that lining up with Giroux is what made him an All-Star (same year that Edler was an all-star). His career would indicate that he's about a 45 point player who is physical but takes a lot of stupid penalties.

You mentioned a trade to make you a cup contender - I agree that Edler isn't that one piece but with all due respect PHI would need a few pieces (starting with a new goalie) before they could be in that conversation. Hartnell doesn't vault us to contender status either and his salary is likely too high for another 6 years given what he brings,

Side topic but what do you think the likelihood is that Gillis makes some kind of bold move with the core like we've been discussing here? I personally don't think he has the guts.
- AlexF

Well, during the presser he said he's tried signing free agents and that didn't work, and he's tried picking up players at the deadline and that didn't work either.

So, what's left? A bold trade?

Let's hope so...

I get that. But if we're going to discuss moving core players, I think the Sedins names should come up long before Ryan Kesler.

Just my opinion.
- Phratz

If I'm MG I'm listening to offers for ALL of my roster to get a gauge of what's possible, and that would include the Sedins. But the issue with Kesler for me is his injury history. If he becomes our top liner and spends half the season on the treatment table I'm not sure how that helps us.

Well, during the presser he said he's tried signing free agents and that didn't work, and he's tried picking up players at the deadline and that didn't work either.

So, what's left? A bold trade?

Let's hope so...
- Phratz

Signing UFAs as a strategy to improving your team only really works when you're looking for depth, not high end talent. I get the impression MG has had very clear boundaries that he set for this roster which he wouldn't cross. Might be time to think outside the box if an immediate re-set is to be achieved. Otherwise just sit back and watch the team slowly decline.

If I'm MG I'm listening to offers for ALL of my roster to get a gauge of what's possible, and that would include the Sedins. But the issue with Kesler for me is his injury history. If he becomes our top liner and spends half the season on the treatment table I'm not sure how that helps us.
- AlexF

Yup. I think his injury history is a product of the game he plays. And the fact he has no clue how to block a shot. If you're the high man on the PK, please don't try blocking shots flamingo style or with your hands.

2-Martin Hanzal and a 2nd rd pick

He has a good contract and is the type of guy that Vancouver needs. He is big, physical and he can score a little. Phoenix needs help on the back-end and Edler would round out that D nicely. If they could sign Smith, Edler, Yandle and OEL along with some of the kids is a good D.


ehhh.....?