Pens' fans are almost getting as bad as Flyers' fans with their goalies.
- cap1681

Worse. Flyer fans have ample reason to question their goalies. Some of our fellow Penguin fans are just overreacting or mis-reacting.

Does Fleury let in bad goals? Yeah.

Are all goals Fleury's fault? Nope.

Does Fleury take the blame on goals that are not his fault? Yes.

I can remember a time about 2 months ago when Vokoun had a shaky stretch and everybody wanted him traded or gone.
- Ben37

I was going to say the same thing. People were stunned how bad Vokoun looked in a couple of those games.

I'm all for riding the "hot hand", but it seems some of the other players aren't held to the same standard. Letang and Malkin made some of the most egregious mistakes so far in the playoffs, but neither have been vilified like Fleury.

I can think of two turnovers from Geno and Tanger that were equally as bad as the 2 softies MAF let in.

I can think of two turnovers from Geno and Tanger that were equally as bad as the 2 softies MAF let in.
- madmike71

4 of the six goals from game 4.

2 bad ones by Fleury, the horrible Malkin giveaway to Tavares, and the PP goal that Letang failed to get the puck deep on. He gave it away at their blueline and it ended up in the Penguins net.

If they start Fleury I wouldn't be surprised.

What are Fleury's numbers against the Senators anyway?

Fleury and Martin have the exact same cap hit. A year back most people were dying to see Martin out of Pittsburgh...now Fleury would be the odd man out (alongside Niskanen).

Fleury, M. » $5,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,000,000

Martin, Paul » $5,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,000,000

Niskanen, Matt » $2,300,000 $2,300,000

4 of the six goals from game 4.

2 bad ones by Fleury, the horrible Malkin giveaway to Tavares, and the PP goal that Letang failed to get the puck deep on. He gave it away at their blueline and it ended up in the Penguins net.
- Ben37

I've got a solution.... Don't play like a lottery team in front of you're goalie and there's a pretty good chance he'll not look like a buy out candidate.

Quote from the Blog:

"He hadn’t even played in the postseason since April of 2007 and that was with an offensively-challenged Nashville team that surely left little room for error between the pipes." - Toperzer

Uhhh...not exactly. I agree with several of the author's points. But Vokoun hasn't played with the Preds in 5 years. Nashville was offensively challenged this past season. I won't argue with that. But in the mid-2000's they were decent offensively.

In fact, Nashville scored 272 goals in 2006-2007 - the period Topezer refers to in the blog. They were #4 in the league in scoring that year. I wouldn't exactly call that "offensively-challenged."

I've got a solution.... Don't play like a lottery team in front of you're goalie and there's a pretty good chance he'll not look like a buy out candidate.
- madmike71

I agree with this one-billion percent!

Quote from the Blog:

"He hadn’t even played in the postseason since April of 2007 and that was with an offensively-challenged Nashville team that surely left little room for error between the pipes." - Toperzer

Uhhh...not exactly. I agree with several of the author's points. But Vokoun hasn't played with the Preds in 5 years. Nashville was offensively challenged this past season. I won't argue with that. But in the mid-2000's they were decent offensively.

In fact, Nashville scored 272 goals in 2006-2007 - the period Topezer refers to in the blog. They were #4 in the league in scoring that year. I wouldn't exactly call that "offensively-challenged."
- holycow_75

Never let facts get in the way of a good narrative advocating goalie lynching!

If they start Fleury I wouldn't be surprised.

What are Fleury's numbers against the Senators anyway?

- Orpik44

Pretty damn good...

Over the last three seasons: 4-1-0 .938 sv% 2.16 GAA
Vokoun over last 3 seasons: 3-3-0 .912 sv% 2.92 GAA

edit: Just a point of refence, in the last three seasons (with Ottawa), Craig Anderson against the Pens: 2-4-1 .898 sv% 3.32 GAA

I know that this is the focus today, but I honestly don't care who starts in net tomorrow night.

Pens' fans are almost getting as bad as Flyers' fans with their goalies.
- cap1681

No one is worse than Flyer fans with their goalies, Ottawa used to be before we acquired Anderson, but now we actually have something we've never had playing the pens before in the playoffs - goalie confidence.

Defense wins championships, and no offense to anyone here, but the Pens G and D is outclassed by Ottawa's this year. Your offense is better, no question, but this is a much different team you're facing than the Isles as Ottawa's D is bigger, more mobile, agressive and experienced than the Isles.

The Sens were among the top 3 defensive teams in the league all year with two of our best players injured for most of the season (Cowen and Karlsson). This playoffs, we're averaging 1.8 goals against per game, and are finally healthy on the back end, which I believe now far outclasses the Pens. See a depth chart comparison (accuse me of bias all you want, but I watch a lotta pens hockey on Centre Ice and these rankings are based on performances to date this season):

1. Anderson > MAF/Vokoun (the fact you're even debating who to start means Ott. has the edge here)

2. Karlsson > Letang (you may not like it, but you all know it's true even when Karlsson is only playing at 75%)

3. Methot > Martin (Martin is better offensively, Methot better defensively which is far more important)

4. Cowen = Orpik (Cowen's a better skater, better fighter, better hitter, and better puck handler but Orpik has far more NHL experience in big playoff games)

5. Gonchar > Niskanen

6. Phillips > Murray (faster, more playoff experience, better positionally)

7. Gryba > Eaton (it's a wash except that Gryba is a significantly better open ice checker, will be the Andy Sutton of this year's rivalry

8. Benoit, Wiercioch = Despres, Engellund

Ottawa wins 6/8 and ties the rest. It's not gonna be as easy or fun to watch this time fellas, just warning ya...

Here's the problem with that stat geeks using the usual save percentage metrics when criticizing Fleury. The Penguins system often produces low numbers of shots against, but more than usual high quality scoring chances against. It's something that will never look kindly on Fleury.

No one is worse than Flyer fans with their goalies, Ottawa used to be before we acquired Anderson, but now we actually have something we've never had playing the pens before in the playoffs - goalie confidence.

Defense wins championships, and no offense to anyone here, but the Pens G and D is outclassed by Ottawa's this year. Your offense is better, no question, but this is a much different team you're facing than the Isles as Ottawa's D is bigger, more mobile, agressive and experienced than the Isles.

The Sens were among the top 3 defensive teams in the league all year with two of our best players injured for most of the season (Cowen and Karlsson). This playoffs, we're averaging 1.8 goals against per game, and are finally healthy on the back end, which I believe now far outclasses the Pens. See a depth chart comparison (accuse me of bias all you want, but I watch a lotta pens hockey on Centre Ice and these rankings are based on performances to date this season):

1. Anderson > MAF/Vokoun (the fact you're even debating who to start means Ott. has the edge here)

2. Karlsson > Letang (you may not like it, but you all know it's true even when Karlsson is only playing at 75%)

3. Methot > Martin (Martin is better offensively, Methot better defensively which is far more important)

4. Cowen = Orpik (Cowen's a better skater, better fighter, better hitter, and better puck handler but Orpik has far more NHL experience in big playoff games)

5. Gonchar > Niskanen

6. Phillips > Murray (faster, more playoff experience, better positionally)

7. Gryba > Eaton (it's a wash except that Gryba is a significantly better open ice checker, will be the Andy Sutton of this year's rivalry

8. Benoit, Wiercioch = Despres, Engellund

Ottawa wins 6/8 and ties the rest. It's not gonna be as easy or fun to watch this time fellas, just warning ya...
- ahjnkn

Not saying that the Sens don't have some good players, but when you compare players to make your point, and leave out Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Kunitz and Dupuis your point is sort of lost.

Yes, Ottawa might be a little better preventing goals, but you need to score goals too.

1. Anderson > MAF/Vokoun (the fact you're even debating who to start means Ott. has the edge here)

2. Karlsson > Letang (you may not like it, but you all know it's true even when Karlsson is only playing at 75%)

3. Methot > Martin (Martin is better offensively, Methot better defensively which is far more important)

4. Cowen = Orpik (Cowen's a better skater, better fighter, better hitter, and better puck handler but Orpik has far more NHL experience in big playoff games)

5. Gonchar > Niskanen

6. Phillips > Murray (faster, more playoff experience, better positionally)

7. Gryba > Eaton (it's a wash except that Gryba is a significantly better open ice checker, will be the Andy Sutton of this year's rivalry

8. Benoit, Wiercioch = Despres, Engellund

Ottawa wins 6/8 and ties the rest. It's not gonna be as easy or fun to watch this time fellas, just warning ya...
- ahjnkn

Well then. If this were a steel cage match in which the above-listed people went toe-to-toe with each other with no other players on the ice, I suppose your comparisons might mean something.

As it stands, two defensemen take the ice with three forwards (typically), rendering your "matchups" pretty much meaningless...

And that's all Fleury? Have you honestly seen our defense other than Letang and Martin? Even Orpik isn't the guy he use to be. Amazing that Fleury was good enough in goal with guys like Scuderi and Gill in front of him. Niskanen sucks. Engo cant move. Eaton has looked great because our bottom half of defense is so bad. He was unemployed a month into a delayed season. These guys suck at picking up a rush.
- lloyd095

Then again, I am the one that would LOVE to see Tanger traded. His stock is probably where Weber's was 2 years ago, and this guy minus a few plays has been as much of a massive chokejob as Fleury in the postseason. At this point keep Martin trade Letang, get a first a pretty damn good NHLer

Then again, I am the one that would LOVE to see Tanger traded. His stock is probably where Weber's was 2 years ago, and this guy minus a few plays has been as much of a massive chokejob in the postseason. At this point keep Martin trade Letang, get a first a pretty damn good NHLer
- ernmerica

My God...I was starting to think I was the only one to see this...so relieved someone else does!

Although, credit where credit is due. Letang hasn't missed the net so high and so hard that the opposing team gets a free breakout much lately. Then again, that could be because he's just too busy turning the puck over in the Penguin's defensive zone...

My God...I was starting to think I was the only one to see this...so relieved someone else does!

Although, credit where credit is due. Letang hasn't missed the net so high and so hard that the opposing team gets a free breakout much lately. Then again, that could be because he's just too busy turning the puck over in the Penguin's defensive zone...
- Kineada

The Pens are obviously troubled defensively right now, and maybe half of the goals that Fleury has let in were because of that. I think back to the Grabner goal on Voky, I threw up in my own mouth. I love Tanger, so smooth, good QB on PP, but if I was a shrewd GM, I would want to see what return he would get. When he becomes a UFA, someone will pay him north of 8 easy

Reading the posts in here about getting rid of goalies and star players, you would think the Penguins lost this series. I kind of remember a team that was stacked with star power and a heavy favorite going into the playoffs, but struggling against their first round opponent, which pushed this team to a 7th game. That was the 91 Penguins, and you all know how that season ended up.

Then again, I am the one that would LOVE to see Tanger traded. His stock is probably where Weber's was 2 years ago, and this guy minus a few plays has been as much of a massive chokejob as Fleury in the postseason. At this point keep Martin trade Letang, get a first a pretty damn good NHLer
- ernmerica

Letang for Eberle.

Then again, I am the one that would LOVE to see Tanger traded. His stock is probably where Weber's was 2 years ago, and this guy minus a few plays has been as much of a massive chokejob as Fleury in the postseason. At this point keep Martin trade Letang, get a first a pretty damn good NHLer
- ernmerica

Problem is he's our #1 Dman. He makes some damm good plays that very few Dmen can make. His speed and skill are up there. I do agree though and like Letang, I think Malkin makes more mistakes and becomes a liability too. I just see Malkn as Kovalev 2.0. Im afraid to see what they would demand on the market as as pay raises as well.

No one is worse than Flyer fans with their goalies, Ottawa used to be before we acquired Anderson, but now we actually have something we've never had playing the pens before in the playoffs - goalie confidence.

Defense wins championships, and no offense to anyone here, but the Pens G and D is outclassed by Ottawa's this year. Your offense is better, no question, but this is a much different team you're facing than the Isles as Ottawa's D is bigger, more mobile, agressive and experienced than the Isles.

The Sens were among the top 3 defensive teams in the league all year with two of our best players injured for most of the season (Cowen and Karlsson). This playoffs, we're averaging 1.8 goals against per game, and are finally healthy on the back end, which I believe now far outclasses the Pens. See a depth chart comparison (accuse me of bias all you want, but I watch a lotta pens hockey on Centre Ice and these rankings are based on performances to date this season):

1. Anderson > MAF/Vokoun (the fact you're even debating who to start means Ott. has the edge here)

2. Karlsson > Letang (you may not like it, but you all know it's true even when Karlsson is only playing at 75%)

3. Methot > Martin (Martin is better offensively, Methot better defensively which is far more important)

4. Cowen = Orpik (Cowen's a better skater, better fighter, better hitter, and better puck handler but Orpik has far more NHL experience in big playoff games)

5. Gonchar > Niskanen

6. Phillips > Murray (faster, more playoff experience, better positionally)

7. Gryba > Eaton (it's a wash except that Gryba is a significantly better open ice checker, will be the Andy Sutton of this year's rivalry

8. Benoit, Wiercioch = Despres, Engellund

Ottawa wins 6/8 and ties the rest. It's not gonna be as easy or fun to watch this time fellas, just warning ya...
- ahjnkn

wow...I agree you have a pretty good D but you are downgrading all of our d-men...mostly Martin, Orpik and Murray... Karlsson at "75%" is better than Letang? (even though he hasn't played great hockey so far in the post season).

Good chalenge for us. Should be a fun series as we match better against you guys than the Islanders speed. Pens in 5 or 6 games

Reading the posts in here about getting rid of goalies and star players, you would think the Penguins lost this series. I kind of remember a team that was stacked with star power and a heavy favorite going into the playoffs, but struggling against their first round opponent, which pushed this team to a 7th game. That was the 91 Penguins, and you all know how that season ended up.
- cap1681

I've always been an advocate for moving Letang. Preseason, in-season, post-season, whenever. Eventually, he's going to slow down, and people will start opening their eyes to his numerous defensive gaffes, or his inability to hit the net from the point (something he is paid a lot of money to be able to do) more often than he wraps the pucks around the boards with his shots.

I'm done reading and posting in this blog for a while if all people are going to do is talk about getting rid of players and not the fact that THE PENS ARE IN THE 2ND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS! The fact that the Penguins won their first round series is a HUGE monkey off the team's and coaching staff's back. I think the Pens come out with a renewed vigor in game one.

Reading the posts in here about getting rid of goalies and star players, you would think the Penguins lost this series. I kind of remember a team that was stacked with star power and a heavy favorite going into the playoffs, but struggling against their first round opponent, which pushed this team to a 7th game. That was the 91 Penguins, and you all know how that season ended up.
- cap1681

Yeah... In '92 it also took 7 games to win their first round matchup against Washington, and the team was down 3-1 and soundly outplayed for the first half of the series.

Not saying that the Sens don't have some good players, but when you compare players to make your point, and leave out Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Kunitz and Dupuis your point is sort of lost.

Yes, Ottawa might be a little better preventing goals, but you need to score goals too.
- rival22

By a little, I believe you mean far and away superior, but that's for the stats guys to worry about. I admit the offense is better for the Pens, but you haven't played a team in the playoffs since the Red Wings with the defensive forward depth Ottawa has. Paul Maclean has taught them well. Players like Turris, Condra, and Pageau are tremendously underrated defensively, and our bottom 6 is much more potent and dangerous offensively than yours is.

This series is going to be about whether our forwards can contain your top-6 and who can win the bottom 6 scoring race, where I believe Ottawa has an advantage given the emergence of a large number of our rookies as legit NHLers. Should be a fun series, you likely will win, but I'm pretty confident this is going to go seven games.

I'm done reading and posting in this blog for a while if all people are going to do is talk about getting rid of players and not the fact that THE PENS ARE IN THE 2ND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS! The fact that the Penguins won their first round series is a HUGE monkey off the team's and coaching staff's back. I think the Pens come out with a renewed vigor in game one.
- cap1681

If the Penguins continue to play in the second round the same way they played in the first, they likely won't be in the playoffs much longer.