I really think meszaros just ran into a string of bad luck. Not in a hurry to move him.
- JoeRussomanno

I'm in that boat too. I would hang on to him mainly though because I dont see any takers.

He has had far too many surgeries in the last while, and probably rushed back each time. The shoulder is a concern, and teams will target him because of that in a playoff run.

Anything the Flyers get out of Mez at this point imo, is a bonus. Unless he shows he is healthy for a large majority of his remaining contract, I would move on. I'm a huge Meszaros fan, but I think the injuries, and shoulder especially are too much. We will see.

Again though, with this uncertainity, I think its time to look to the future of that d-core, and try and slide Guss/Oliver into regular top 6 roles, instead of the Sbisa approach.

If there's was one bullet left in the world, I'd use it on Pierre McGuire
- GirouxForTheShow

Not a fan. He loves Crosby.

Well, Meszaros comes off the books next season. Coburn, compared to what's out there, is making close to what you'd pay for a similar replacement.

I mean, if you're going to be happy female doging about Bieksa rather than Coburn, I guess I see your point.

Me, rather than making moves just to make moves, I'd rather slot the guys on hand into their proper roles and ask them to handle the jobs I know they can handle, rather than hope that kids like Gustafsson and Lauridsen can handle the job or go out and trade assets to get similar players to what is here on hand with similar cap hits.
- Jsaquella

If you want Gustafsson to fail, pile on the responsibilities and ask too much of him out of the gate. Put Lauridsen in and ask him to replace Coburn. Setting them up for failure. No different then what was done this past Season with the defense.

The thing is Coburn and Mez to me is its covering your bases to do what though? Win a few more games, or say they made the playoffs?

I dont see a team taking Mez, so thats where Coburn comes in. Having two more slots open, and allowing Guss and Oliver to slide in, is the right move to me.

I also think its the right move now, with the forwards still developing, and being able to give those guys a solid year of on ice mentorship from Timonen.

Regarding Lava, haha I knew you'd bring him into it, but for sure him focusing more on the defensive end of the puck would help those guys develop.
- flyer_nutter

And if Lauridsen and Gus aren't ready, you have to trade assets to fill the holes. Which puts you in a perpetual state of shoring up leaks.

Lauridsen played solidly, in a simplified system, where he wasn't being asked to do a ton of heavy lifting. But put him into a spot where it's not simple, where he has to do more and I have doubts he can handle it.

There's also the uncertain health of Grossmann to consider. I'm fine with possibly missing the playoffs and I certainly agree with developing the younger players. But I'm not going to head into a season, willingly making myself short on defense, when the playoffs are a realistic possibility.

Flawed teams can make runs. Also, I'm not discounting the need to add to the defense. But I'm also not going to simply look at cost and say "that's too much" without looking at all the other factors and conditions.

I'm in that boat too. I would hang on to him mainly though because I dont see any takers.

He has had far too many surgeries in the last while, and probably rushed back each time. The shoulder is a concern, and teams will target him because of that in a playoff run.

Anything the Flyers get out of Mez at this point imo, is a bonus. Unless he shows he is healthy for a large majority of his remaining contract, I would move on. I'm a huge Meszaros fan, but I think the injuries, and shoulder especially are too much. We will see.

Again though, with this uncertainity, I think its time to look to the future of that d-core, and try and slide Guss/Oliver into regular top 6 roles, instead of the Sbisa approach.
- flyer_nutter

Best way to gain experience is playing at the NHL level at this point. The Flyers have some tough decisions to make this summer. I don't think either Coburn or Mez will be moved but I'm not closing the door on it either. This team does things that nobody expects.

I'm in that boat too. I would hang on to him mainly though because I dont see any takers.

He has had far too many surgeries in the last while, and probably rushed back each time. The shoulder is a concern, and teams will target him because of that in a playoff run.

Anything the Flyers get out of Mez at this point imo, is a bonus. Unless he shows he is healthy for a large majority of his remaining contract, I would move on. I'm a huge Meszaros fan, but I think the injuries, and shoulder especially are too much. We will see.

Again though, with this uncertainity, I think its time to look to the future of that d-core, and try and slide Guss/Oliver into regular top 6 roles, instead of the Sbisa approach.
- flyer_nutter

Meszaros is in the last year of his deal. Not much majority left.

Are you giving any credence to the idea that Lauridsen may not be ready? And that sliding him into a top 6 spot is a risk. You let a player like Lauridsen play his way into the lineup. Not give him and spot and see what happens.

I'm in that boat too. I would hang on to him mainly though because I dont see any takers.

He has had far too many surgeries in the last while, and probably rushed back each time. The shoulder is a concern, and teams will target him because of that in a playoff run.

Anything the Flyers get out of Mez at this point imo, is a bonus. Unless he shows he is healthy for a large majority of his remaining contract, I would move on. I'm a huge Meszaros fan, but I think the injuries, and shoulder especially are too much. We will see.

Again though, with this uncertainity, I think its time to look to the future of that d-core, and try and slide Guss/Oliver into regular top 6 roles, instead of the Sbisa approach.
- flyer_nutter

Wasn't the Sbisa approach to rush him into a role he wasn't ready for, end up making him a healthy scratch and sending him back to juniors late in the year?

Isn't that kind of what you're suggesting by simply handing top 6 roles to Gustafsson & (especially) Lauridsen?

The thing is Coburn and Mez to me is its covering your bases to do what though? Win a few more games, or say they made the playoffs?

I dont see a team taking Mez, so thats where Coburn comes in. Having two more slots open, and allowing Guss and Oliver to slide in, is the right move to me.

I also think its the right move now, with the forwards still developing, and being able to give those guys a solid year of on ice mentorship from Timonen.

Regarding Lava, haha I knew you'd bring him into it, but for sure him focusing more on the defensive end of the puck would help those guys develop.
- flyer_nutter

you're jumping the gun w/ gus, who needs to prove he can stay in the lineup and 'oliver', who clearly needs more seasoning. have patience, because one dman like yandle can shuffle everybody into their proper role. mez is likely gone after next yr and kimmo as well. by then, we'll likely know where the 2 kids stand...and whether we have more options to replace our top dman.

Wasn't the Sbisa approach to rush him into a role he wasn't ready for, end up making him a healthy scratch and sending him back to juniors late in the year?

Isn't that kind of what you're suggesting by simply handing top 6 roles to Gustafsson & (especially) Lauridsen?
- Jsaquella

The same people who want the Flyers to show patience with their young players, want to throw Lauridsen right into the fire. Maybe Lauridsen is ready, maybe he's not. But you just don't go into a Season handing him a spot, and seeing how he handles it. I'd like to see Lauridsen given some the responsibilities that Coburn has, and maybe we'll see what horrific is.

Well, Meszaros comes off the books next season. Coburn, compared to what's out there, is making close to what you'd pay for a similar replacement.

I mean, if you're going to be happy female doging about Bieksa rather than Coburn, I guess I see your point.

Me, rather than making moves just to make moves, I'd rather slot the guys on hand into their proper roles and ask them to handle the jobs I know they can handle, rather than hope that kids like Gustafsson and Lauridsen can handle the job or go out and trade assets to get similar players to what is here on hand with similar cap hits.
- Jsaquella

Coburn has a 4.5 million cap hit.

Beauchemin: 3.5
Boychuk: 3.3
Seidenberg: 3.25
Ference: 2.25
Ehrhoff: 4
Giordano: 4
Gleason: 4
Pitkanen: 4.5
Hjalmarsson: 3.5
Oduya: 3.3
Robidas: 3.3
Daley: 3.3
Quincey: 3.7
Mitchell: 3.5
Scuderi: 3.4
Greene: 2.9
Gorges: 3.9
Volchenkov: 4.2
Streit: 4.1
Staal: 3.9
Girardi: 3.25
Z Michalek: 4
Orpik: 3.7
Brad Stuart: 3.6
Jackman: 3.1
Salo: 3.7
Brewer: 3.8
Hamhuis: 4.5

Now some of these players are at different points in their careers, but I tried to target those around the same level as Coburn. The Flyers have had Coburn basically since his real arrival in the NHL. He is not worth that 4.5 to me when compared to a lot of these players.

After 3

London - 4
Barrie - 4

Again in the 3rd London's defense has collapsed, gave up 4 goals with 15 minutes left in the period

Essentially yes.

I think its time to move on from the Coburn/Mez thing, and allow the young kids Guss/Oliver to slide into permanent top 6 roles with regularity.

Thats all its about at the end of this BM.
- flyer_nutter

Gus yes, Oliver not yet. I'd keep Mesz, see what you can get for Coby. Mesz only has a year left on his deal.

Wasn't the Sbisa approach to rush him into a role he wasn't ready for, end up making him a healthy scratch and sending him back to juniors late in the year?

Isn't that kind of what you're suggesting by simply handing top 6 roles to Gustafsson & (especially) Lauridsen?
- Jsaquella

Sbisa struggled, and was benched.

Struggled and was playign with different linemates nightly.

Struggled and ended up playing 4th line wing.

Struggled and sat out doing nothing.

A better approach to me, is giving Guss and Oliver permanent roles, with more regular line partners. Sign veteran d-men for depth.

After 3

London - 4
Barrie - 4

Again in the 3rd London's defense has collapsed, gave up 4 goals with 15 minutes left in the period
- ob18

Hopefully they win and Stollie gets back the starters job.

Hopefully they win and Stollie gets back the starters job.
- Yosimar89

It doesn't matter who London has in net, each has had the team and themselves at times come up sort.

you're jumping the gun w/ gus, who needs to prove he can stay in the lineup and 'oliver', who clearly needs more seasoning. have patience, because one dman like yandle can shuffle everybody into their proper role. mez is likely gone after next yr and kimmo as well. by then, we'll likely know where the 2 kids stand...and whether we have more options to replace our top dman.
- isaiah520

The thing with me is, I expect Guss to get a spot.

Oliver seems to be the catch here. I would rather deal Coburn, and try and get Oliver a year of on ice mentorship with Timonen.

Sbisa struggled, and was benched.

Struggled and was playign with different linemates nightly.

Struggled and ended up playing 4th line wing.

Struggled and sat out doing nothing.

A better approach to me, is giving Guss and Oliver permanent roles, with more regular line partners. Sign veteran d-men for depth.
- flyer_nutter

After next year the Flyers are going to be without Mez and Timonen. They can allow Gus and Oliver to play at the NHL level and gain more experience or send them down at the AHL level and try to work on issues.

Will see what happens.

Sbisa struggled, and was benched.

Struggled and was playign with different linemates nightly.

Struggled and ended up playing 4th line wing.

Struggled and sat out doing nothing.

A better approach to me, is giving Guss and Oliver permanent roles, with more regular line partners. Sign veteran d-men for depth.
- flyer_nutter

the best teams take more time w/ dmen. this year coulda been a calamity for DET, for example, but because they have such a rigorous and patient development program, a few young guys were able to step in because they were ready and contribute.

Wasn't the Sbisa approach to rush him into a role he wasn't ready for, end up making him a healthy scratch and sending him back to juniors late in the year?

Isn't that kind of what you're suggesting by simply handing top 6 roles to Gustafsson & (especially) Lauridsen?
- Jsaquella

Gus has not been rushed into a top 6 role. He's 24 and now ineligible to go to the AHL. I'm ok with giving Lauridsen another year or 2 to develop. It would be rushing Gus to give him a top 4 role, but top 6 is actually almost inevitable, unless something stupid happens.

Coburn has a 4.5 million cap hit.

Beauchemin: 3.5
Boychuk: 3.3
Seidenberg: 3.25
Ference: 2.25
Ehrhoff: 4
Giordano: 4
Gleason: 4
Pitkanen: 4.5
Hjalmarsson: 3.5
Oduya: 3.3
Robidas: 3.3
Daley: 3.3
Quincey: 3.7
Mitchell: 3.5
Scuderi: 3.4
Greene: 2.9
Gorges: 3.9
Volchenkov: 4.2
Streit: 4.1
Staal: 3.9
Girardi: 3.25
Z Michalek: 4
Orpik: 3.7
Brad Stuart: 3.6
Jackman: 3.1
Salo: 3.7
Brewer: 3.8
Hamhuis: 4.5

Now some of these players are at different points in their careers, but I tried to target those around the same level as Coburn. The Flyers have had Coburn basically since his real arrival in the NHL. He is not worth that 4.5 to me when compared to a lot of these players.
- flyer_nutter

Unfortunately, and especially under the last CBA, the point in a player's career is kind of vital to his salary and cap hit.

Look at a guy like Erhoff. His cap hit is $4mm, but it's also got 9 more year on it and is subject to cap recapture penalties if he retires early. A lot of those deals also have ironclad NMC's, rather than the limited NTC Coburn has.

There are some guys I'd take over Coburn on that list, for sure. Others I wouldn't or are guys who aren't available.

The thing with me is, I expect Guss to get a spot.

Oliver seems to be the catch here. I would rather deal Coburn, and try and get Oliver a year of on ice mentorship with Timonen.
- flyer_nutter

So you're going to replace Coburn, who plays over 20 minutes a game. Plays top minutes on the PK, and in key defensive situations. With Lauridsen, who likely realistically needs more AHL time to be ready for even a minor low minute 3rd pair role in the NHL. Solid plan.

The thing with me is, I expect Guss to get a spot.

Oliver seems to be the catch here. I would rather deal Coburn, and try and get Oliver a year of on ice mentorship with Timonen.
- flyer_nutter

As much as I think veteran leadership and the whole lead by example, I don't throw Lauridson to the frying pan for the sake of him being in the same line-up as Timo. Gus, certainly more likely, especially since his style and size are more Timonen-esque. Plus, Oliver would learn more from the game from Ponger I'd think, and as far as I know he likes sticking around the team when he can.

Gus has not been rushed into a top 6 role. He's 24 and now ineligible to go to the AHL. I'm ok with giving Lauridsen another year or 2 to develop. It would be rushing Gus to give him a top 4 role, but top 6 is actually almost inevitable, unless something stupid happens.
- JAKEw1234

Not saying he has been. What I'm saying is simply handing him a top 4 role, which is what would be the case by dumping Meszaros and Coburn, would be rushing him.

I'm also saying it'd be more likely that Lauridsen is the one who'd struggle more

So you're going to replace Coburn, who plays over 20 minutes a game. Plays top minutes on the PK, and in key defensive situations. With Lauridsen, who likely realistically needs more AHL time to be ready for even a minor low minute 3rd pair role in the NHL. Solid plan.
- MJL

Your period key hates you.

Unfortunately, and especially under the last CBA, the point in a player's career is kind of vital to his salary and cap hit.

Look at a guy like Erhoff. His cap hit is $4mm, but it's also got 9 more year on it and is subject to cap recapture penalties if he retires early. A lot of those deals also have ironclad NMC's, rather than the limited NTC Coburn has.

There are some guys I'd take over Coburn on that list, for sure. Others I wouldn't or are guys who aren't available.
- Jsaquella

Agreed. Just looking at Cap hits without looking at all the factors. Such as when the deal was signed, what stage of their career they're at. Shows a clear lack of understanding of the NHL Salary structure.