and what of Gus? He can't be sent down to the AHL, and it'd be an injustice to his development to bench him. If we acquire an Edler/Yandle/Shattenkirk, then we need to lose one of Coburn/Mezaros to make room in the lineup for Gus to get playing time. After Timonen leaves next season, our (hopefully) drafted Dman will most likely not be NHL ready. If we were to trade Coburn this offseason on the logic that Mezaro's contract runs out next offseason, and that Gus needs playing time, then we'd have a good gap on our defense until our drafted defender is ready, but by then that gap could be filled by Lauridsen. I think the right move is to dispose of Mez this off season, acquire our big name defender, let Kimmo and Coburn hold the 2nd line this offseason, then dispose of Coburn next offseason, move Gus and Grossmann up to the top 4, move Lauri into the top 6, then the year after that, move Pulock/Zadorov into the top 6. Eventually move Grossmann back to the 3rd pair, and bring Pulorov into the top 4.

Edler - Schenn
Gus - Grossmann
Ollie - Pulo
- JAKEw1234

Pulorov interesting.

Actually, the one guy I have concerns about is Hunter Shinkaruk, but mainly because he's got a rep as being a guy who can be negated by physical play, despite his talent level.
- Jsaquella

Bo Horvat strikes again, a beautiful snap shot short side.

10 most expensive D as of March 19, 2013. (before trade deadline)

1. San Jose Sharks – $24.127 million
2. Philadelphia Flyers – $23.708 million (not counting Pronger)
3. Vancouver Canucks – $23.275 million
4. Florida Panthers – $22.668 million
5. Chicago Blackhawks – $22.588 million
6. Calgary Flames – $22.442 million
7. Montreal Canadiens – $21.500 million
8. Columbus Blue Jackets – $21.472 million
9. Buffalo Sabres – $20.945 million
10. Ottawa Senators – $20.758 million
- flyer_nutter

10MM gone after next yr. what would help most is to draft and develop a few more of our own and have plyrs on ELC's more often.

Bo Horvat strikes again, a beautiful snap shot short side.
- ob18

BOHO!!!

10MM gone after next yr. what would help most is to draft and develop a few more of our own and have plyrs on ELC's more often.
- isaiah520

10 million gone but a HUGE hole to fill with the departure of Timonen, who even with playing through injury, aging and being undersized is usually the best d-man by far when looking at the all round game.

You are right with the ELC's. Thats where I am heading with this. Jakew1234 posted a lineup farther up on this page (quoted), which might be a little dreamy, in terms of how the kids develop, but the Flyers are paying so much money for their defense. What the hell for?

Forward attention to defensive play is one thing, but to pay that much money for this defensive core in a cap era? Horrific.

BOHO!!!
- Jsaquella

Starting to develop a little bit of a "clutch" reputation isnt he?

Starting to develop a little bit of a "clutch" reputation isnt he?
- flyer_nutter

He already had a decent reputation but he's taken full advantage of this long playoff run.

My point basically.

The Flyers are paying to ice a D core in the NHL that has the 2nd highest cost.

I wouldnt be rolling the dice with the same crew, and expecting magical results if possible moves can be made. Holmgren has to look as far as I am concerned, and in the future not spend so much money, on a d-core that doesnt live up to its cap hit.

This year was strange, but to completely write it off as an anomaly is playing with fire.
- flyer_nutter

That's super, but how exactly are you going to pay less? Count on Gustafsson or Lauridsen, neither of whom may be ready? Anyone they trade for will be either unproven or paid as much as Coburn and/or Meszaros.

I agree they need to add another mobile proven top four guy, but at the same time, they need to ensure that they don't get caught short. If they rely on Gus & Lauridsen next year, and injuries occur, they will be scrambling. Then they'll be paying a high price to replace Coburn o Meszaros. Also, after next season, they'll have more space as well as significant money being freed up.

Hopefully, Laviolette will adjust to make better use of the strengths of his defense and also help to cover their weaknesses. People can complain about the cost of the defense vs performance level, but a bigger issue is the team defense, and how the defense and forwards work in conjunction with one another.

That's super, but how exactly are you going to pay less? Count on Gustafsson or Lauridsen, neither of whom may be ready? Anyone they trade for will be either unproven or paid as much as Coburn and/or Meszaros.

I agree they need to add another mobile proven top four guy, but at the same time, they need to ensure that they don't get caught short. If they rely on Gus & Lauridsen next year, and injuries occur, they will be scrambling. Then they'll be paying a high price to replace Coburn o Meszaros. Also, after next season, they'll have more space as well as significant money being freed up.

Hopefully, Laviolette will adjust to make better use of the strengths of his defense and also help to cover their weaknesses. People can complain about the cost of the defense vs performance level, but a bigger issue is the team defense, and how the defense and forwards work in conjunction with one another.
- Jsaquella

Gus will be ready for 3rd pair minutes next year, that's almost given.

Gus will be ready for 3rd pair minutes next year, that's almost given.
- JAKEw1234

And he's missed time with injuries in each of the past three seasons. And there's plenty of guys that regress, too.

I'd certainly start the season with Gustafsson in a top 6 role, but he's not yet a sure thing.

That's super, but how exactly are you going to pay less? Count on Gustafsson or Lauridsen, neither of whom may be ready? Anyone they trade for will be either unproven or paid as much as Coburn and/or Meszaros.

I agree they need to add another mobile proven top four guy, but at the same time, they need to ensure that they don't get caught short. If they rely on Gus & Lauridsen next year, and injuries occur, they will be scrambling. Then they'll be paying a high price to replace Coburn o Meszaros. Also, after next season, they'll have more space as well as significant money being freed up.

Hopefully, Laviolette will adjust to make better use of the strengths of his defense and also help to cover their weaknesses. People can complain about the cost of the defense vs performance level, but a bigger issue is the team defense, and how the defense and forwards work in conjunction with one another.
- Jsaquella

I think it goes hand in hand. The team defense issues, but to have the 2nd highest paid defense core, for what they provide?

Thats unreal, and just another time Holmgren loves to overpay without looking at the full picture. It would help him if he had some d-men that they actually drafted he could insert into the lineup, but thats another issue.

The thing I keep seeing brought up, is the fear of immediate replacements for players. I am of the belief that this team needs a bit of a rebuild, more specifically that defense. The only real way to see what the Flyers have with Oliver/Guss is to insert them into those spots.

Or they can do what they have done for years, and put a young d-man with promise into the 7th d-man position, and have him play with irregular minutes and d-partners.

As it stands, I dont think the Flyers win jack poop with the current slotted top 5. Its time to look to the future, and not be so worried about missing the playoffs for one season.

I think this organization really needs to get out of its damn head that they have a window to win the cup. Its closed. The offense is on its way to being made, but that D needs to be re-tooled, and the money spent on the correct players/areas.

I'd much rather have Oliver/Guss slotted into consistent roles on that defense, instead of going the Sbisa route.

After 2

London - 4
Barrie - 0

I would much rather have the young D with promise (Guss/Oliver), in permanent top 6 spots with regularity.

This next season so they have a chance to learn from an on ice mentor in Timonen.

Or they can try this 7th d-man approach, which always works out so damn well. Bench one of them after they have a bad game.

Or continue to hang some fantasy that the current top 5 will somehow hit a glorious hot/healthy streak and lead them to the cup.

He was good in the first three and a half games. After coming back from the first shoulder injury he was terrible.
- Feanor

Wasn't fully recovered from either injury. Not surprising. Probably shouldn't have been playing.

Right... Lets roll the dice here with the same inconsistent D core, that has real health concerns and expect magical fruit loops to rain down from the heavens.

The Flyers currently have the second highest paid defense (minus Pronger) among the whole NHL.

If moves are there, they have to be made imo. Paying so much money in a salary cap era for what they provide is ridiculous.

Overrated.
- flyer_nutter

Or there is an alternative. Meszaros can get healthy and play at a high level as he has in the past. And Coburn can have a better Season placed in the role he should be in.

Make moves just to make them?

I think it goes hand in hand. The team defense issues, but to have the 2nd highest paid defense core, for what they provide?

Thats unreal, and just another time Holmgren loves to overpay without looking at the full picture. It would help him if he had some d-men that they actually drafted he could insert into the lineup, but thats another issue.

The thing I keep seeing brought up, is the fear of immediate replacements for players. I am of the belief that this team needs a bit of a rebuild, more specifically that defense. The only real way to see what the Flyers have with Oliver/Guss is to insert them into those spots.

Or they can do what they have done for years, and put a young d-man with promise into the 7th d-man position, and have him play with irregular minutes and d-partners.

As it stands, I dont think the Flyers win jack poop with the current slotted top 5. Its time to look to the future, and not be so worried about missing the playoffs for one season.

I think this organization really needs to get out of its damn head that they have a window to win the cup. Its closed. The offense is on its way to being made, but that D needs to be re-tooled, and the money spent on the correct players/areas.

I'd much rather have Oliver/Guss slotted into consistent roles on that defense, instead of going the Sbisa route.
- flyer_nutter

Again, if you have a hammer and use it to fix glass, it's going to do a poor job, even if it's an expensive and high quality hammer.

The defense does need tweaking, nobody's denying that. But when you have a defense with limited mobility and ask them to play the way Laviolette did this past season(and to be honest the season before) it's going to look a lot worse than it actually is.

Used properly, the Flyers defense can be decent. That means making Coburn a 2nd pair defense first guy and don't ask him to be a puck mover and anchor a top pair. It means if Meszaros stays healthy, use him as sort of a "super" 5th defenseman, who plays more minutes than an average 5th guy and in more situations, rather than asking him to be a top pair guy.

That's why they could use another guy with more mobility. To better slot the guys on hand and have them fill roles better suited to their abilities.

We can say it's no big deal for two non playoff years in a row, but we know that won't fly with the owner, so why bring it up? It's like saying Led Zeppelin should reunite. Great in theory, but you're not getting the singer to agree, so it's like pissing into the wind.

I would much rather have the young D with promise (Guss/Oliver), in permanent top 6 spots with regularity.

This next season so they have a chance to learn from an on ice mentor in Timonen.

Or they can try this 7th d-man approach, which always works out so damn well. Bench one of them after they have a bad game.

Or continue to hang some fantasy that the current top 5 will somehow hit a glorious hot/healthy streak and lead them to the cup.
- flyer_nutter

I'm loving what I've been reading from Bill's WHC summaries of Gus. He seems to be Sweden's best player so far not just their best dman. Flyers are overdue for a pleasant surprise on D. I'm not saying Gus magically turns into an elite dman but I won't be surprised if he becomes a top 4 for us next year. Health as always will be the key.

As for the Flyers spending on D, I don't think your point was that the Flyers need to spend less on D but that they need to get players that actually play to their cap hits, ie, cap efficient players. Getting an Edler or Shattenkirk via trade and drafting a dman at #11 and with the continuing development of Gus and Oliver will help the efficiency greatly.

I would much rather have the young D with promise (Guss/Oliver), in permanent top 6 spots with regularity.

This next season so they have a chance to learn from an on ice mentor in Timonen.

Or they can try this 7th d-man approach, which always works out so damn well. Bench one of them after they have a bad game.

Or continue to hang some fantasy that the current top 5 will somehow hit a glorious hot/healthy streak and lead them to the cup.
- flyer_nutter

I'd definitely have Gustafsson in the top 6. Lauridsen would probably benefit from a more regular role in the AHL and be in a good spot to be the first call up in case of injury, while Gervais can be the 7th guy who sits and doesn't play regular minutes.

Or there is an alternative. Meszaros can get healthy and play at a high level as he has in the past. And Coburn can have a better Season placed in the role he should be in.

Make moves just to make them?
- MJL

Replicate this year? I have no doubt Mesz and Coby are capable of bouncing back, but with the cap dropping, too much $ tied it to D this upcoming year.

Or there is an alternative. Meszaros can get healthy and play at a high level as he has in the past. And Coburn can have a better Season placed in the role he should be in.

Make moves just to make them?
- MJL

Replicate this year? I have no doubt Mesz and Coby are capable of bouncing back, but with the cap dropping, too much $ tied it to D this upcoming year.

(frank) the pens! Hell yea!

Replicate this year? I have no doubt Mesz and Coby are capable of bouncing back, but with the cap dropping, too much $ tied it to D this upcoming year.
- GirouxForTheShow

If they exercise the buyouts that everyone seems to be big fans of, they'll have ample cap room. $12mm or so, before the LTIR relief from Pronger.

Again, if you have a hammer and use it to fix glass, it's going to do a poor job, even if it's an expensive and high quality hammer.

The defense does need tweaking, nobody's denying that. But when you have a defense with limited mobility and ask them to play the way Laviolette did this past season(and to be honest the season before) it's going to look a lot worse than it actually is.

Used properly, the Flyers defense can be decent. That means making Coburn a 2nd pair defense first guy and don't ask him to be a puck mover and anchor a top pair. It means if Meszaros stays healthy, use him as sort of a "super" 5th defenseman, who plays more minutes than an average 5th guy and in more situations, rather than asking him to be a top pair guy.

That's why they could use another guy with more mobility. To better slot the guys on hand and have them fill roles better suited to their abilities.

We can say it's no big deal for two non playoff years in a row, but we know that won't fly with the owner, so why bring it up? It's like saying Led Zeppelin should reunite. Great in theory, but you're not getting the singer to agree, so it's like pissing into the wind.
- Jsaquella

Some people piss harder than others.

Or there is an alternative. Meszaros can get healthy and play at a high level as he has in the past. And Coburn can have a better Season placed in the role he should be in.

Make moves just to make them?
- MJL

Moves wouldn't be made just for the sake of it. A serious plan needs to be made to replace Kimmo. Long term, Coburn and Mez don't really have a place on this team. They're from our old era defense. They're our defense from the Richards/Carter time. That time is gone now and over the next couple of years I think it's important to move on from Mez and Coburn, as well.

10 most expensive D as of March 19, 2013. (before trade deadline)

1. San Jose Sharks – $24.127 million
2. Philadelphia Flyers – $23.708 million (not counting Pronger)
3. Vancouver Canucks – $23.275 million
4. Florida Panthers – $22.668 million
5. Chicago Blackhawks – $22.588 million
6. Calgary Flames – $22.442 million
7. Montreal Canadiens – $21.500 million
8. Columbus Blue Jackets – $21.472 million
9. Buffalo Sabres – $20.945 million
10. Ottawa Senators – $20.758 million
- flyer_nutter

Love to see where your getting these numbers from.