I think everyone should get a participation trophy...
- Flyfreaky

It's called $$$

MVP shouldn't be solely based off point totals though. JT should win because he is the only reason the NYI are even in the playoffs let alone relevant. Crosby is very good but the Penguins can win without him and have shown they can. Whether he plays or not doesn't decide his teams fate. With JT and Ovi, without those 2 players their teams are no where near playoff contention. The Norris and Hart have become more about point production than anything else. Thats why they have the Richard and Ross trophy. They really need to make an Orr trophy for top scoring Dman.
- fudd1689

Totally agree, but it makes them a candidate, especially when ppg is higher than 1.0, this toddler thinks that missing 10 games nullifies their dominance in the games that they were in. Looking closely Letang is an easy candidate, if suter isn't there he is the winner outright.

Bobby Orr
Recently Erik Karlsson.... Yea they were such outstanding checkers and not known for the points totals

want to go back to learning time instead of playing on your phone
- nelson911

uhh, total fail on your end, i dont think i really need to reply to this comment, your level of knowledge speaks for itself on this one

Explain Karlsson over Weber then

- HopintheCordoba

Karlsson absolutely smoked Weber and all others in points, and his possession numbers were pretty good for an offensive dman. Letang's ppg was ridonculous but in year where even Cody Franson scored 29 points, it's just not the same as what Karlsson did.

That being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to name Letang a Norris finalist.

It's called $$$
- HopintheCordoba

they need a shiny trophy too.. we don't want them thinking they aren't appreciated

I will trepan myself if I have to see that again...
- Flyfreaky

that is a bit extreme.. especially since those commercials are played about every commercial break

It's called $$$
- HopintheCordoba

Karlsson absolutely smoked Weber and all others in points, and his possession numbers were pretty good for an offensive dman. Letang's ppg was ridonculous but in year where even Cody Franson scored 29 points, it's just not the same as what Karlsson did.

That being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to name Letang a Norris finalist.
- Morris

Exactly why I said that. Even the most dense hockey fan knows that if a defenseman puts up Top 5 numbers in points he's going to have a shot at the
Norris over guys like Weber or Chara who play a more physical, defensively sound style. I'm not saying Karlsson can't do that. It's just not his first instinct. He benefits from the offensive inclination of the award. Shouldn't have to be that way. Break it up. Make an Orr Trophy and a Norris Trophy. Or...just choose a bit more evenly?

- Flyfreaky

Iteresting stat for people who want to talk about importance to a team, from an offensive perspective:

% of goals player scored or assisted on:

Ovechkin - 37.6%
Tavares - 33.8%
Toews - 30.9%

When Crosby went out, he was at 45.9%

To say Crosby isn't important to the Pens is laughable.

apparently you must not understand the meaning of norris trophy or hart, best defenseman, not defenseman who has most points, and the mvp, either has to do with points, rethink your comment knob
- Hawkeyes

The Richard Trophy goes to the league's leading goal scorer. The Selke to the nest defensive player. Masterton for perseverance and courage.

Seems the Hart should be for the player who best encapsulates all those and more. Not just amassing points in larger markets on the East Coast.

Kane had a nice year—as have many players.

Jonathan Toews deserved to be at least a nominee for the Hart. Period.

- Flyfreaky

So that's what they teach in high school in Chicago

Iteresting stat for people who want to talk about importance to a team, from an offensive perspective:

% of goals player scored or assisted on:

Ovechkin - 37.6%
Tavares - 33.8%
Toews - 30.9%

When Crosby went out, he was at 45.9%

To say Crosby isn't important to the Pens is laughable.
- cap1681

The Richard Trophy goes to the leading goal scorer. What does Toews do defensively? What does OV do? Oh yeah . . .

I'm not totally against that idea. It's obvious that they won't reward defensive defensemen unless that happens.
- HopintheCordoba

It makes sense, they have the Art Ross and Richard trophies to reward top scoring forwards, then they also have the Selke for excellence in defensive play as a forward. Why not do the same for defenseman. Have the Norris for Overall defenseman and then have an Orr trophy for top scoring Dman.

It makes sense, they have the Art Ross and Richard trophies to reward top scoring forwards, then they also have the Selke for excellence in defensive play as a forward. Why not do the same for defenseman. Have the Norris for Overall defenseman and then have an Orr trophy for top scoring Dman.
- fudd1689

That's actually a good idea

It makes sense, they have the Art Ross and Richard trophies to reward top scoring forwards, then they also have the Selke for excellence in defensive play as a forward. Why not do the same for defenseman. Have the Norris for Overall defenseman and then have an Orr trophy for top scoring Dman.
- fudd1689

Yeah, except Orr was an amazing two-way defenseman who also happened to rule the planet offensively.

I'm not totally against that idea. It's obvious that they won't reward defensive defensemen unless that happens.
- HopintheCordoba

Yeah, look at Dan Girardi last year: 31 games over 27 minutes in TOI. 6 games over 30 minutes played! Only player with 200+ hits and 175+ blocked shots. One of the highest QOC and Corsi relative to QOC. Real unsung hero that would have easily been in the conversation if there was a Orr/Norris split

PK Subban for everything.

The Richard Trophy goes to the leading goal scorer. What does Toews do defensively? What does OV do? Oh yeah . . .
- John Jaeckel

Then Cris Kunitz should be nominated over Toews. Had a better +/-, more points, was only on the ice for 22 goals this season, so he plays well defensively....toews was on the ice for 29.

Exactly why I said that. Even the most dense hockey fan knows that if a defenseman puts up Top 5 numbers in points he's going to have a shot at the
Norris over guys like Weber or Chara who play a more physical, defensively sound style. I'm not saying Karlsson can't do that. It's just not his first instinct. He benefits from the offensive inclination of the award. Shouldn't have to be that way. Break it up. Make an Orr Trophy and a Norris Trophy. Or...just choose a bit more evenly?
- HopintheCordoba

I really think the guys that get shafted are stay-at-home dmen.

Most of the time, they seem to insist on taking exclusively two-way dmen, Visnovski and Mike Green be damned (two examples of Karlsson-like seasons). Somehow though there seems to be a magic secret threshhold that makes people go crazy for an offensive dman. That never seems to happen for stay at home types.

Most of the time, if you don't score 40 points (full season), you're not in the conversation.

The whole award ceremony is biased and trophys are given to high market teams. An argument can be said for St. Louis or Stamkos even. Or one for either Sedin. Stewart had an amazing year for St. louis, so did Elliot. Anderson for Ottawa just carried his team to the second round. All amazing players on their teams. Smaller markets though. The only trophy that matters is the one for highest points. The rest has become so political in the past few years that the PHWA has lost all credibility as an organization.

Then Cris Kunitz should be nominated over Toews. Had a better +/-, more points, was only on the ice for 22 goals this season, so he plays well defensively....toews was on the ice for 29.
- cap1681

Yeah, great argument.

One problem, Toews >>> Kunitz.

Why? Off the charts intangibles. Toews is one of the league's best FO guys (if not the best), probably draws tougher defensive assignments, one of the best penalty killers in the league.

See, those are the reasons Toews has WJC Gold, Olympic Gold, a Cup AND a Conn Smythe. Because he's one of the best players— as in top 5—in hockey. And Chris Kunitz, while a very good player, is not.

Nice try.

I think everyone should get a participation trophy...
- Flyfreaky

not trophy... green participation ribbon...

Yeah, except Orr was an amazing two-way defenseman who also happened to rule the planet offensively.
- John Jaeckel

Tough to snub Orr on a trophy name, but you're right. The more accurate name would be the Coffey award.

Let's get crazy: Coffey for the best offensive, Orr for the best two-way, Shore/Langway/Potvin for best stay-at-home, ad Norris for best overall.

Tough to snub Orr on a trophy name, but you're right. The more accurate name would be the Coffey award.

Let's get crazy: Coffey for the best offensive, Orr for the best two-way, Shore/Langway/Potvin for best stay-at-home, ad Norris for best overall.
- Morris

Bingo