Suter blows, he's not worth the money. We heard that for months.

I got a kick out of stat geeks bringing up Corsi numbers and other types of pocket protector metrics to compare Suter to Carle. Those arguments that went on for weeks were cute.
- PLindbergh31

Not even in the same class bro.

They traded Staal because he would not re-sign there and wanted out. They made him a very generous offer. They did not trade J Staal because they couldn't afford him. Down the middle is an area where you want to be very strong. There is room for 3 quality Centers on every team.
- MJL

Yes yoUr right. And there room for 3 quality goalies and 8 quality dmen but point is in a cap world other areas of your team will suffer. And voynov is as good or betteR than the over rated doughty right now in many aspects except hitting sO I think. Some would say he will be a #1 some not time will tell.

Not to nitpick but they didn't trade Staal because of the cap. They traded him because he wouldn't sign with them. He forced a trade. The Penguins offered him the same contract he signed in Carolina almost dollar for dollar.
- mayorofangrytown

Marc's going to be doing the same in 2-years...

L.A doesn't need offense
- JAKEw1234

Touche. However, they can use young proven forwards they can lock up for a long time, as opposed to a guy with 1 year left before UFA status. Adding a 30-goal scorer signed to a 4-year deal to your second line is never a bad thing. Also, never bad to add top young prospect centers who you'll control for years. But yeah, I'll eat my words a bit on that one.

Suter blows, he's not worth the money. We heard that for months.

I got a kick out of stat geeks bringing up Corsi numbers and other types of pocket protector metrics to compare Suter to Carle. Those arguments that went on for weeks were cute.
- PLindbergh31

"Those metrics were fantastic!"

- Matt Carle's agent

Essentially they took an archive of purely draft pick for draft pick trades over the past long time (20 years if im not mistaken), and I guess crunched some numbers to figure out an algorithm that could give each pick a point value from 0.0 to 100.0 (the first overall). Here's the whole chart:


- JAKEw1234

Too general. For example, I would say the #1 pick in 1984 (Mario Lemieux) was worth more than every other pick that year combined. On the other hand, #1 in 1993 (Alexander Daigle) was worth a cheap roll of hockey tape.

A pick is worth whatever the team holding that pick thinks it's worth. In another words, the 11th pick overall may be worth more to a team like the Flyers who are up against the cap and thin in prospects to team that is going into next year say 15 million under the cap and has a lot of good prospects.

So which 2 of Simmonds, Couturier, B. Schenn, and Voracek would you send there for Voynov?
- jmatchett383

None... I would first offer a combination of picks/prospects/Dman

Comfortable moving a combo of SOME of the following (not all obviously): 1st pick (2013), 2nd pick(2013), 3rd (2013), 1st (2014), 2nd (2014), 3rd (2014) Mez, Coburn, Grossman, Laughton, Ghost, Cousins, Manning, Akeson, Lauridsen....

I'm comforatble with a package of some of the above elements that would fulfill the Kings needs/asking price that wouldn't take us to the cleaners too much. I think we would pay a steep price. But we have no choice to pay the price if we want that type of player NOW.

Not to nitpick but they didn't trade Staal because of the cap. They traded him because he wouldn't sign with them. He forced a trade. The Penguins offered him the same contract he signed in Carolina almost dollar for dollar.
- mayorofangrytown

And they're team would suffer overall with cap. And it was also rimless pit only offered that contract because they knew he wanted to move on so they wouldn't look like they didn't offer Him a deal or low ball him.

Rumored not rimless. Dam auto correct

honestly, I don't know how many times Couturier as a 3rd line Center has to be discussed. You can pigeon hole him there all you want. Doesn't mean that's where he is going to play for next 3 to 5 years. if Couturier meets his potential, the Flyers have two top Centers. One who is a top offensive player in the League. And one who is one of the top 2 way Centers in the League.

And I'll repeat again what I've said to you multiple times. Tell me what #1 Defenseman we can realistically get. And I'm likely all in on overpaying for him.
- MJL

Don't you sometimes feel that you are talking to a wall?

The only Flyer that will land them a #1 defenseman in a straight up trade is Giroux, and I'm pretty sure he is not on the block.

Don't you sometimes feel that you are talking to a wall?

The only Flyer that will land them a #1 defenseman in a straight up trade is Giroux, and I'm pretty sure he is not on the block.
- BiggE

Honestly, I don't see a team trading a number one defenseman.

Flyers need to find a puck moving defenseman. Have to get the next best option.

None... I would first offer a combination of picks/prospects/Dman

Comfortable moving a combo of SOME of the following (not all obviously): 1st pick (2013), 2nd pick(2013), 3rd (2013), 1st (2014), 2nd (2014), 3rd (2014) Mez, Coburn, Grossman, Laughton, Ghost, Cousins, Manning, Akeson, Lauridsen....

I'm comforatble with a package of some of the above elements that would fulfill the Kings needs/asking price that wouldn't take us to the cleaners too much. I think we would pay a steep price. But we have no choice to pay the price if we want that type of player NOW.
- Chris48

LA probably wouldn't do it. They are a top contender right now, and they'd only move a vital piece like Voynov if it makes them a stronger team right now. None of those players do that. Value for value overall might be there, but it's not that simple. Would you trade Giroux for a handful of mid-round draft picks, 4th/5th defensemen, and mid-tier prospects, even if there was an absurd quantity of them?

Edit: I know Giroux has more value than Voynov, just using as a homegrown example since we don't have anyone near comparable to Voynov.

Rumored not rimless. Dam auto correct
- SMS4016

Honestly, I don't see a team trading a number one defenseman.

Flyers need to find a puck moving defenseman. Have to get the next best option.
- stveshdy

I agree. As I said a couple days ago, there is no top Dman in free agency and no one is going to trade a top pair guy unless you are willing to SIGNIFICANTLY overpay.

They are better off signing a stop gap guy like Mark Streit and going with
Streit-Schenn
Coburn-Timonen
Grossmann/Mez (depending if either is healthy by fall)-Gus

Let the young forwards continue to develop and BE PATIENT!

LA probably wouldn't do it. They are a top contender right now, and they'd only move a vital piece like Voynov if it makes them a stronger team right now. None of those players do that. Value for value overall might be there, but it's not that simple. Would you trade Giroux for a handful of mid-round draft picks, 4th/5th defensemen, and mid-tier prospects, even if there was an absurd quantity of them?

Edit: I know Giroux has more value than Voynov, just using as a homegrown example since we don't have anyone near comparable to Voynov.
- jmatchett383

In your mind Giroux = Voynov


They have Doughty and a lot of D prospects and cap space will become an issue like it is to every top contender

Suter blows, he's not worth the money. We heard that for months.

I got a kick out of stat geeks bringing up Corsi numbers and other types of pocket protector metrics to compare Suter to Carle. Those arguments that went on for weeks were cute.
- PLindbergh31

In hindsight, it might have been nicer to just re-sign Carle and Jagr to slightly less than they got on the open market instead seeing Homer spending all his time p*ssing up the wrong tree with Suter and Parise.

Too general. For example, I would say the #1 pick in 1984 (Mario Lemieux) was worth more than every other pick that year combined. On the other hand, #1 in 1993 (Alexander Daigle) was worth a cheap roll of hockey tape.

A pick is worth whatever the team holding that pick thinks it's worth. In another words, the 11th pick overall may be worth more to a team like the Flyers who are up against the cap and thin in prospects to team that is going into next year say 15 million under the cap and has a lot of good prospects.
- BiggE

You're behind man, the source was given, which stated the trades were not from tha past 20 years. And I wouldn't say we're thin on prospects, I'd just say most of the best ones have already graduated to the NHL. We can't always have elite talent in the prospect pool, and our elite talent's B schenn and Coots.

In hindsight, it might have been nicer to just re-sign Carle and Jagr to slightly less than they got on the open market instead seeing Homer spending all his time p*ssing up the wrong tree with Suter and Parise.


- Tomahawk

After the Weber offer sheet plan didn't work out, there was no plan B. All the eggs were in the Weber basket, when that failed, Holmgren had nowhere to go. The contract offers to Suter and Parise was nothing more than Holmgren trying to save face. He had zero chance to land either player, if he didn't know that he was the only one.

After the Weber offer sheet plan didn't work out, there was no plan B. All the eggs were in the Weber basket, when that failed, Holmgren had nowhere to go. The contract offers to Suter and Parise was nothing more than Holmgren trying to save face. He had zero chance to land either player, if he didn't know that he was the only one.
- PLindbergh31

I'm curious to see his moves this summer.

In your mind Giroux = Voynov


They have Doughty and a lot of D prospects and cap space will become an issue like it is to every top contender
- Chris48

Yes. Thanks exactly what I mean thwne I said, "I know Giroux has more value than Voynov."

After the Weber offer sheet plan didn't work out, there was no plan B. All the eggs were in the Weber basket, when that failed, Holmgren had nowhere to go. The contract offers to Suter and Parise was nothing more than Holmgren trying to save face. He had zero chance to land either player, if he didn't know that he was the only one.
- PLindbergh31

Weber only came into the picture after Suter fell through, though.

Essentially, Suter was Plan A, B and C, Carle was Plan D, Weber was DEFCON 1.

Excellent to hear Gustafsson is playing at a high level and handling more responsibility for Sweden. If Holmgren can't add a defenseman, Gus will be counted on heavily by the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

With this news, it's expected they will lean big time on him when they don't land/overpay for a puck mover this off-season.

I agree. As I said a couple days ago, there is no top Dman in free agency and no one is going to trade a top pair guy unless you are willing to SIGNIFICANTLY overpay.

They are better off signing a stop gap guy like Mark Streit and going with
Streit-Schenn
Coburn-Timonen
Grossmann/Mez (depending if either is healthy by fall)-Gus

Let the young forwards continue to develop and BE PATIENT!
- BiggE

Ok be patient and how are d problems getting solved? The draft? Hahahaha free agency? Hahahaha. Offer sheet? Hahahahahahahahaha. The only way we are getting #1 dman is trade and we WILL overpay. Mind as well trade from position we are strong at (center) to lessen the overall depth of our team.

Weber only came into the picture after Suter fell through, though.

Essentially, Suter was Plan A, B and C, Carle was Plan D, Weber was DEFCON 1.
- Tomahawk

Thats only because Plan E, cloning Pronger, was a failure!

Marc's going to be doing the same in 2-years...
- Tomahawk

When's the final one coming out? Next year? I know the last Subban is this season. Maybe I missed the last Staal.