My point simply being the time most projections had Maata going ahead of Laughton. Hamilton and Coots roughly in the same area.

They wouldnt have been reaches at the time. If thats the case thats where I would look at organizational long term need. I dont think that is done, and far too often the safe play, and going with a forward is made.

I'll really run with your point of good d-men even being taken in later rounds. The Flyers scouting department I have had questions with for a while. Good with forwards... However when it comes to d-men or even advising the organization on taking one, brutal.
- flyer_nutter

Those projections are irrelevant. The only projections that matter are the Flyers. Otherwise, why have scouts? Just go with what most projections are saying.
You keep saying that the safe play, going with a forward is made. That is not the case. It is a known fact that with the Flyers drafting strategy, position has zero to do with it. The select who they feel is the best available player. Regardless of position.
And as was stated to you earlier, the Flyers selected defenseman with 4 of their 7 selections in last year's draft. So how can you ignore these facts?

My point simply being the time most projections had Maata going ahead of Laughton. Hamilton and Coots roughly in the same area.

They wouldnt have been reaches at the time. If thats the case thats where I would look at organizational long term need. I dont think that is done, and far too often the safe play, and going with a forward is made.

I'll really run with your point of good d-men even being taken in later rounds. The Flyers scouting department I have had questions with for a while. Good with forwards... However when it comes to d-men or even advising the organization on taking one, brutal.
- flyer_nutter

Well projections are often incorrect, too.

Alexandre Daigle was projected as a superstar. Bobby Sanguinetti and Trevor Lewis were both more highly rated than Giroux.

It's not about what the CSB or ISS thinks, it's about what the team picking thinks. If they feel that Scott Laughton will be a better pro than Olli Maatta, then they'd be foolish to take Maatta over Laughton. If they felt Sean couturier would be a better NHLer than Dougie Hamilton, then they should have taken Couturier.

Otherwise, why hire scouts? Just use the rankings and pick the guy that Central scouting says is best

Well projections are often incorrect, too.

Alexandre Daigle was projected as a superstar. Bobby Sanguinetti and Trevor Lewis were both more highly rated than Giroux.

It's not about what the CSB or ISS thinks, it's about what the team picking thinks. If they feel that Scott Laughton will be a better pro than Olli Maatta, then they'd be foolish to take Maatta over Laughton. If they felt Sean couturier would be a better NHLer than Dougie Hamilton, then they should have taken Couturier.

Otherwise, why hire scouts? Just use the rankings and pick the guy that Central scouting says is best
- Jsaquella

We are echoing each other!

Well projections are often incorrect, too.

Alexandre Daigle was projected as a superstar. Bobby Sanguinetti and Trevor Lewis were both more highly rated than Giroux.

It's not about what the CSB or ISS thinks, it's about what the team picking thinks. If they feel that Scott Laughton will be a better pro than Olli Maatta, then they'd be foolish to take Maatta over Laughton. If they felt Sean couturier would be a better NHLer than Dougie Hamilton, then they should have taken Couturier.

Otherwise, why hire scouts? Just use the rankings and pick the guy that Central scouting says is best
- Jsaquella

You brought it right where I was kind of heading.

At the end of everything, I question the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men. Thats the biggest issue to me. They either fail to see the talent that other teams do, or simply rate forwards higher too often.

You brought it right where I was kind of heading.

At the end of everything, I question the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men. Thats the biggest issue to me.
- flyer_nutter

There you might have a valid point.

You brought it right where I was kind of heading.

At the end of everything, I question the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men. Thats the biggest issue to me.
- flyer_nutter

I question them when it comes to defensemen as well...so why should we be all fired up about them drafting one in the first round?

Not one of these guys is a bona fide, can't miss, future Pronger. Even Jones isn't can't miss.

You brought it right where I was kind of heading.

At the end of everything, I question the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men. Thats the biggest issue to me. They either fail to see the talent that other teams do, or simply rate forwards higher too often.
- flyer_nutter

You can also add questioning the team when it comes to goalie scouting as well. Hopefully Stolarz ends up being good but by no means should we see even him for at least 3 more years. In recent games more of his games has shown more flaws that will take time to correct.

I question them when it comes to defensemen as well...so why should we be all fired up about them drafting one in the first round?

Not one of these guys is a bona fide, can't miss, future Pronger. Even Jones isn't can't miss.
- Jsaquella

I get to that because out of Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pulock, Morrisey, and Nurse I believe that a few will probably be there at the 11th pick.

If the Flyers feel that a forward at the time will be that much better then by all means take that player. IF HOWEVER, it wouldnt be reaching to take a d-man, I hope they take a d-man.

I dont have faith in that scouting department properly evaluating the talent of d-men to begin with, or when comparing them to forwards.

My point simply being the time most projections had Maata going ahead of Laughton. Hamilton and Coots roughly in the same area.

They wouldnt have been reaches at the time. If thats the case thats where I would look at organizational long term need. I dont think that is done, and far too often the safe play, and going with a forward is made.

I'll really run with your point of good d-men even being taken in later rounds. The Flyers scouting department I have had questions with for a while. Good with forwards... However when it comes to d-men or even advising the organization on taking one, brutal.

Edit: I think the ways of buying a D core, or really solid d-men either in FA or trades are dead. OR even if they are available the team will have to overpay. They had a chance to not reach and try to fix that need with Hamilton. They have a chance now as well with not reaching to begin with. The time has come.
- flyer_nutter

I've stated this before, and apologize that I can't remember the exact site, a prospect site did a " redraft" and Laughton was the player that had the highest jump. He went 11th or 12th. He was projected to go late 1st to mid 2nd. matta and thrower moved back a few slots. I'm happy with Laughton and I would take BPA over a lesser player at a position of need everytime

This site needs more dumpster fire

I get to that because out of Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pulock, Morrisey, and Nurse I believe that a few will probably be there at the 11th pick.

If the Flyers feel that a forward at the time will be that much better then by all means take that player. IF HOWEVER, it wouldnt be reaching to take a d-man, I hope they take a d-man.

I dont have faith in that scouting department properly evaluating the talent of d-men to begin with, or when comparing them to forwards.
- flyer_nutter

So why would you want that scouting department to take a defenseman, if you don't trust their ability to properly scout them?

I agree, they have a real deficiency in scouting defensemen. They've found a few, but most were with other organizations when they finally blossomed.

Yes, the new CBA outlawing trades really has the Flyers stuck with all the centers they've drafted.
- Jsaquella

So why would you want that scouting department to take a defenseman, if you don't trust their ability to properly scout them?

I agree, they have a real deficiency in scouting defensemen. They've found a few, but most were with other organizations when they finally blossomed.
- Jsaquella

Haha because I pray they get it right finally? I dont believe they can build a consistently elite team for a few years, that doesnt run so hot and cold unless they build a more complete one via draft.

I've stated this before, and apologize that I can't remember the exact site, a prospect site did a " redraft" and Laughton was the player that had the highest jump. He went 11th or 12th. He was projected to go late 1st to mid 2nd. matta and thrower moved back a few slots. I'm happy with Laughton and I would take BPA over a lesser player at a position of need everytime
- KINGKENZO

I would take BPA every day.

However when two players are pretty similar in that regard, you have to look at long term organization need imo.

What goes along with this, is being able to properly evaluate and rank talent, specifically amongst d-men. They lack there. Hope they figure it out.

Edit: To be even more specific, in later rounds other teams take d-men that develop into solid d-men. The Flyers continously pass on these players, or cant seem to find them. Scouting needs to be looked at.

I would take BPA every day.

However when two players are pretty similar in that regard, you have to look at long term organization need imo.

What goes along with this, is being able to properly evaluate and rank talent, specifically amongst d-men. They lack there. Hope they figure it out.

Edit: To be even more specific, in later rounds other teams take d-men that develop into solid d-men. The Flyers continously pass on these players, or cant seem to find them. Scouting needs to be looked at.
- flyer_nutter

I agree with you there. I think luck has a lot to do with it. Because if you look at some of the top defenseman who were drafted in later rounds. And then look at who those teams picked with earlier picks. They obviously weren't aware of how good the player could be. But that the Flyers haven't drafted a D man that has turned out to be a stalwart defenseman with a later round pick, is troubling. And with some that did turn out good. They gave up and traded.

Team needs change year to year. Who knows what will happen over the Summer. What will happen at the draft. You don't pass up a better player and select a lesser player because of position. And were back to Couturier being wasted again I see.
- MJL

Do you want to see coots or b scheen reach elite status (which is their potential) playing 13 minutes a game on our 3rd line or would you rather move one of them for a piece you feel Will win you a cup?

This site needs more dumpster fire
- JoeRussomanno

Well you bring the dumpster. I'm sure someone will light z fire soon.

I agree with you there. I think luck has a lot to do with it. Because if you look at some of the top defenseman who were drafted in later rounds. And then look at who those teams picked with earlier picks. They obviously weren't aware of how good the player could be. But that the Flyers haven't drafted a D man that has turned out to be a stalwart defenseman with a later round pick, is troubling. And with some that did turn out good. They gave up and traded.
- MJL

As much as we all want a d-man but agree the BPA is the way to go I keep thinking Bo Horvat (London) and wouldn't at all be shocked if he ended up as the pick. And I know it's way too soon but I wouldn't at all be shocked.

Do you want to see coots or b scheen reach elite status (which is their potential) playing 13 minutes a game on our 3rd line or would you rather move one of them for a piece you feel Will win you a cup?
- SMS4016

That's the problem with your premise. They won't be playing 13 minutes a game. I don't care what number you assign to the line that Couturier is playing on. Call his line, line #20 for all I care. As long as he is used properly, which isn't a problem. How much icetime players like Couturier and Schenn get, will be based on how well they play. As it always is.

Tell me what piece that you feel we can move them for, that will win us a Cup?

I would take BPA every day.

However when two players are pretty similar in that regard, you have to look at long term organization need imo.

What goes along with this, is being able to properly evaluate and rank talent, specifically amongst d-men. They lack there. Hope they figure it out.

Edit: To be even more specific, in later rounds other teams take d-men that develop into solid d-men. The Flyers continously pass on these players, or cant seem to find them. Scouting needs to be looked at.
- flyer_nutter

The Flyers' scouting staff has been one of the best at consistently churning out NHL talent over the past couple of decades... and they've hit a fair number of home runs while managing to mostly avoid making huge mistakes.

I think we tend to look at the best of what other teams have achieved while glossing over their missteps. Teams like the Preds and Kings and Wings and Sharks and Hawks have had some high moments... but they've also been responsible for picking guys like Parent, Hickey, McCollum, Wyshart, Barker, Beach and Skille.

As much as we all want a d-man but agree the BPA is the way to go I keep thinking Bo Horvat (London) and wouldn't at all be shocked if he ended up as the pick. And I know it's way too soon but I wouldn't at all be shocked.
- ob18

I'd be more than OK with Bo at 11.

That's the problem with your premise. They won't be playing 13 minutes a game. I don't care what number you assign to the line that Couturier is playing on. Call his line, line #20 for all I care. As long as he is used properly, which isn't a problem.

Tell me what piece that you feel we can move them for, that will win us a Cup?
- MJL

Hell, they both averaged over 15 minutes a game this past season.

I'm more concerned with Couturier being used in a more offensive role. I also think Bryaden Schenn is better suited to wing, with the hiccups in his two way game right now.

The Flyers' scouting staff has been one of the best at consistently churning out NHL talent over the past couple of decades... and they've hit a fair number of home runs while managing to mostly avoid making huge mistakes.

I think we tend to look at the best of what other teams have achieved while glossing over their missteps. Teams like the Preds and Kings and Wings and Sharks and Hawks have had some high moments... but they've also been responsible for picking guys like Parent, Hickey, McCollum, Wyshart, Barker, Beach and Skille.
- Tomahawk

only at forward really, if we are talking about core plyrs.

only at forward really, if we are talking about core plyrs.
- isaiah520

Position has no relevance to the point he was making.

Brayden Schenn for Yandle straight up? I dont think that gets it done but its a move I would do.

Yandle is interesting, but this team imo needs a guy thats a step above that. If they draft a player who becomes a solid top 4 d-man, so be it. At least they took a risk, instead of going for the safe pick in a forward.

However to waste assets for a d-man who essentially will be targeted by other teams looking to expose his side of the ice? I like d-men, who first and foremost can play solid D. That are consistent, and you can rely on them to keep the puck out of the net.

If you are paying big money, and giving up good assets, that d-man better be able to do all those things, against the best players, and do it with consistency.
- flyer_nutter

Or we could use patience instead of blowing one of our most valuable assets on a carle-esque player who we're just going to hate when he gets here because of his insufficient d play. I'm tellin you, drafting is golden. Our team is young enough so that our best players will still be a year or 2 away from their prime when our best youth reaches the NHL. Matt Read, a 2014 1st, a 2013 2nd, 2014 2nd, and braydon coburn. What are your opinions on this for the #4 or there around? Nich is gonna be good, like real good. He can be our poor man's Ovechkin. He plays the style, the position, has the size, the speed, the hands, the shot isn't there yet but it will get there, even the country. I'd trade matt read, coburn, and a #20 prospect for a poor man's ovechkin, idk about you. Pulock or Zadorov can be real good two-way dmen, and yes I think drafting is the cheapest and most feasible option for getting our #1. Until they're ready, we can sign stop gaps (See Gonchar, Sergei; Streit, Mark) until they're closer, and still compete for the playoffs in the mean time. What do you guys, kings of realism, think of this trade? Are my orange glasses on to tight? Is Coburn worth even aittle bit more than a 2nd rounder?