Go Flyers.

Watson is probably the one and only. They've always been a team that traded to fill in their defense, and defensemen have always been costly. It's not some new fangled thing.

When the Flyers traded for Mark Howe, they didn't get him for a song. The same goes for Brad McCrimmon or Eric Desjardins.

When th Flyers landed Howe, they traded not only their leading scorer from the previous season(Ken Linseman 92 pts in 79 games), they also traded a good forward prospect(Greg Adams) and a 1st rounder.

McCrimmon cost them their starting goalie from the year before, who won the Vezina in his first year as a Bruin(Pete Peeters)

We all know that Desjardins came over in the deal for Recchi, who was fresh off a 100 point season
- Jsaquella

Plus they got Howe coming off a serious injury and he was in the middle of a really nasty contract squabble at the time too.
People just don't understand what it would take to land a top defenseman. Putting the bad blood aside, in order to give up Weber, Nashville would most likely ask for Couturier, both Schenns and this years 1st.
Building through the draft is by far the best way to go!

They have drafted a few D and wingers, just haven't been able to either hold on to them or develop them properly. However they haven't drafted a top goalie since Hextall and he was a 6th round pick.

Pitkanen (2002?) is a good defenseman, perhaps not elite, but they could use a guy like him today. However he wasn't given a chance to mature here. Also Sbisa may still turn out to be a pretty good player, he is still pretty young and of course it will be years until we see how good a pick Ghost is.

On the wing, they have actually drafted some pretty good ones over the last 12 years, Gagne(yes he was drafted as a center, but he was moved to wing very early in his career, Justin Williams, Giroux (was drafted as a RW, was moved to center well after turning pro), and JVR.

To me its both the drafting and the developing of D and goalies that has hurt this team.
- BiggE

The selection of Coots over Hamilton really made me question just how they hell they expect to build a team. If they are stuck in some phase of believing they can win with their pocket books in FA, or just make trades whenever they see fit.

This years draft, will show a lot more of just how the organization thinks imo.

Exactly you made my point. Staal told pit he was NOT RESIGNING WITH THEM so why did pit even offer a contract? They knew they had to trade him or get nothing for him. Only one plausible reason to offer a contract to a player that tells you hes not resigning with you which is to save face. See fans we wanted to keep him honest we did, we even offered him a contract but he left anyways it's not our fault keep buying season tickets and jerSeys please so we can get richer
- SMS4016

I didn't make your point at all. The contract was offered as an attempt to re-sign him. Sometimes players talk just to try and get a better deal. Your premise that the Pens offered him a contract just to save face is false. It was a legitimate attempt made to re-sign the player. And I'll let you in on something. What the fans might think, doesn't carry that much weight when GM's and NHL front offices are making decisions on players. There's sometimes exceptions to that. But for the most part, what the fans think are irrelevant.

The selection of Coots over Hamilton really made me question just how they hell they expect to build a team. If they are stuck in some phase of believing they can win with their pocket books in FA, or just make trades whenever they see fit.

This years draft, will show a lot more of just how the organization thinks imo.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not going to rip them for drafting Coots. Earlier in the year, before he contracted Mono, he was considered by many scouts to be the consensus #1 pick. When a guy like that is still on the board at #8, you take him.

Plus they got Howe coming off a serious injury and he was in the middle of a really nasty contract squabble at the time too.
People just don't understand what it would take to land a top defenseman. Putting the bad blood aside, in order to give up Weber, Nashville would most likely ask for Couturier, both Schenns and this years 1st.
Building through the draft is by far the best way to go!
- BiggE

As well as having the balls to take a d-man with a high pick, if it really isn't a reach.

Instead of this obsession with forwards.

The selection of Coots over Hamilton really made me question just how they hell they expect to build a team. If they are stuck in some phase of believing they can win with their pocket books in FA, or just make trades whenever they see fit.

This years draft, will show a lot more of just how the organization thinks imo.
- flyer_nutter

They expect to build a team by selecting who they felt was the best player available. Couturier.

The selection of Coots over Hamilton really made me question just how they hell they expect to build a team. If they are stuck in some phase of believing they can win with their pocket books in FA, or just make trades whenever they see fit.

This years draft, will show a lot more of just how the organization thinks imo.
- flyer_nutter

They will take the player that they feel is the best available, regardless of position. That's what they do. In 2006, they were all set to take Bobby Sanguinetti, a defenseman. He went before they picked and they had to settle for Claude Giroux. In 2009, they picked Luca Sbisa a defenseman with their 1st round pick.

Last year, they drafted 4 defensemen out of 7 picks.

I'm not going to rip them for drafting Coots. Earlier in the year, before he contracted Mono, he was considered by many scouts to be the consensus #1 pick. When a guy like that is still on the board at #8, you take him.
- BiggE

I'm not going to say it was just purely about Mono with Coots, I think he fell for a few reasons but thats not my issue. He was a good pick.

At the same time I also dont think it would have been reaching to take Hamilton. Pronger's health was a question, and the organization knew damn well of the age on Kimmo/Pronger.

Forwards are much easier to find than d-men. I frankly think that was a stupid move, but whats done is done.

This years draft will tell me if they have learned their lesson.

As well as having the balls to take a d-man with a high pick, if it really isn't a reach.

Instead of this obsession with forwards.
- flyer_nutter

There is no obsession with forwards. When the 11th pick roles around, and a defenseman is who the Flyers feel is the best player available. They will select a defenseman. Of the 7 players they drafted in the last draft. 4 were defenseman

I'm not going to say it was just purely about Mono with Coots, I think he fell for a few reasons but thats not my issue. He was a good pick.

At the same time I also dont think it would have been reaching to take Hamilton. Pronger's health was a question, and the organization knew damn well of the age on Kimmo/Pronger.

Forwards are much easier to find than d-men. I frankly think that was a stupid move, but whats done is done.

This years draft will tell me if they have learned their lesson.
- flyer_nutter

So if the Flyers don't take a defenseman with the 11th pick, they haven't learned their lesson?

Plus they got Howe coming off a serious injury and he was in the middle of a really nasty contract squabble at the time too.
People just don't understand what it would take to land a top defenseman. Putting the bad blood aside, in order to give up Weber, Nashville would most likely ask for Couturier, both Schenns and this years 1st.
Building through the draft is by far the best way to go!
- BiggE

The trouble is, you can draft the highest rates defenseman on the board...doesn't mean he'll pan out.

For every Alex Pietrangelo, there's a Cam Barker or Aki Berg or Gord Kluzak

The only aspect of the draft that the Flyers focus on, is selecting who they feel is the best available player. Which I agree with completely.
- MJL

So if it Happens to be another center we take at 11 then what? We play g schenn coots Laughton as top 4 centers? What to do with this years pick when heMakes team not to mention Laughton is a #1 pick playing 4th line center instead of 3rd line and coots talent wasted at 3rd line or scheen wasted if coots moves up. Sorry sometimes you have to project wHat your team needs are going to Be down the line if you want to be a team that builds through the draft or else your just tsking talent and moving it for pieces you need

They will take the player that they feel is the best available, regardless of position. That's what they do. In 2006, they were all set to take Bobby Sanguinetti, a defenseman. He went before they picked and they had to settle for Claude Giroux. In 2009, they picked Luca Sbisa a defenseman with their 1st round pick.

Last year, they drafted 4 defensemen out of 7 picks.
- Jsaquella

The thing for me is. They took D.

Yet they passed on Maata and took Laughton. Passed on Hamilton and took Coots.

Those arent reaches. They werent at the time either in terms of projections. The team was desperately in need of young D, and D that had the potential to develop into top guys. Yet the organization went with this dumbass belief that they could build everything through FA or make some trade. Those days are dead.

The teams that take gambles on d-men, and more often than naught those with high picks, come away with the rewards or sometimes yes a bust. If you dont even take that risk, and always go for the safe play with a forward, you are relying on FA/trades. A place good d-men, are often not found, or cost far too much.

The trouble is, you can draft the highest rates defenseman on the board...doesn't mean he'll pan out.

For every Alex Pietrangelo, there's a Cam Barker or Aki Berg or Gord Kluzak
- Jsaquella

There is.

However the way I see it, if you dont take any risks, you get none of the rewards. Those risks, are also decreased by having a good scouting department. One that I will say I think lacks when it comes to evaluating d-men.

Take none of those risks with high picks, when its not even reaching to begin with, and you have a one dimensional team, that will rely and pray on FA and trades.

Edit: This also isn't the point, but what was the last top d-man the Flyers drafted and developed in the league. Better yet since the "new nhl"? Other teams do it, and the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men sucks ass imo. Or even a top 4 d-man?

The point of it all, is that Hamilton and Maata wouldn't really have been reaches for who the Flyers took. At the same time filling a crucial need, one that could be filled for years. Yet the safe play was made with going for a forward. I really hope they learned the lesson and we will see the next draft. It wouldnt be reaching for a d-man at 11.

The thing for me is. They took D.

Yet they passed on Maata and took Laughton. Passed on Hamilton and took Coots.

Those arent reaches. They werent at the time either in terms of projections. The team was desperately in need of young D, and D that had the potential to develop into top guys. Yet the organization went with this dumbass belief that they could build everything through FA or make some trade. Those days are dead.

The teams that take gambles on d-men, and more often than naught those with high picks, come away with the rewards or sometimes yes a bust. If you dont even take that risk, and always go for the safe play with a forward, you are relying on FA/trades. A place good d-men, are often not found, or cost far too much.
- flyer_nutter

That's the problem with your premise. You think that the Flyers draft selections means that they have a dumbass belief that they could build everything through Free Agency or trades. That is not the case.
Teams very rarely take risks with high first round draft picks. An awful lot of top defenseman are taken in later rounds.

So if it Happens to be another center we take at 11 then what? We play g schenn coots Laughton as top 4 centers? What to do with this years pick when heMakes team not to mention Laughton is a #1 pick playing 4th line center instead of 3rd line and coots talent wasted at 3rd line or scheen wasted if coots moves up. Sorry sometimes you have to project wHat your team needs are going to Be down the line if you want to be a team that builds through the draft or else your just tsking talent and moving it for pieces you need
- SMS4016

Team needs change year to year. Who knows what will happen over the Summer. What will happen at the draft. You don't pass up a better player and select a lesser player because of position. And were back to Couturier being wasted again I see.

The thing for me is. They took D.

Yet they passed on Maata and took Laughton. Passed on Hamilton and took Coots.

Those arent reaches. They werent at the time either in terms of projections. The team was desperately in need of young D, and D that had the potential to develop into top guys. Yet the organization went with this dumbass belief that they could build everything through FA or make some trade. Those days are dead.

The teams that take gambles on d-men, and more often than naught those with high picks, come away with the rewards or sometimes yes a bust. If you dont even take that risk, and always go for the safe play with a forward, you are relying on FA/trades. A place good d-men, are often not found, or cost far too much.
- flyer_nutter

The thing for me is. They took D.

Yet they passed on Maata and took Laughton. Passed on Hamilton and took Coots.

Those arent reaches. They werent at the time either in terms of projections. The team was desperately in need of young D, and D that had the potential to develop into top guys. Yet the organization went with this dumbass belief that they could build everything through FA or make some trade. Those days are dead.

The teams that take gambles on d-men, and more often than naught those with high picks, come away with the rewards or sometimes yes a bust. If you dont even take that risk, and always go for the safe play with a forward, you are relying on FA/trades. A place good d-men, are often not found, or cost far too much.
- flyer_nutter

No, Hamilton would not have been a reach. Hard to say what the big deal is on Maatta, because he's yet to even play in the NHL yet, while Laughton had a bit of a breakout year for Oshawa and is considered an even better prospect than he was when the Flyers drafted him. Maatta pretty much treaded water and is as highly regarded now as he was last year.

Good defensemen have always been expensive. High prices on trading or a good defenseman is not something that just started happening over the past four or five years, they have always been expensive to trade for.

There have been as many elite defensemen taken in round 2 or 3 as in round one. In fact, of the Norris finalists this year, only Ryan Suter was a first round pick.

Niklas Lidstrom, who is one of the greatest defensemen of all time was a third rounder. Shea Weber was a 2nd rounder. Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder. Simply taking a guy in the first round doesn't mean he'll be a success and it's not especially smart to risk a pretty rare high draft pick because of a perceived systemic need.

The thing for me is. They took D.

Yet they passed on Maata and took Laughton. Passed on Hamilton and took Coots.

Those arent reaches. They werent at the time either in terms of projections. The team was desperately in need of young D, and D that had the potential to develop into top guys. Yet the organization went with this dumbass belief that they could build everything through FA or make some trade. Those days are dead.

The teams that take gambles on d-men, and more often than naught those with high picks, come away with the rewards or sometimes yes a bust. If you dont even take that risk, and always go for the safe play with a forward, you are relying on FA/trades. A place good d-men, are often not found, or cost far too much.
- flyer_nutter

Agree 100% there was NO NEED to draft coots. We had g briere and just traded for scheen. The pick should have been Hamilton. Was coots rated higher? Probally a little on most Teams boards but when building through the draft sometimes you just plain have to go with your needs.

There is.

However the way I see it, if you dont take any risks, you get none of the rewards. Those risks, are also decreased by having a good scouting department. One that I will say I think lacks when it comes to evaluating d-men.

Take none of those risks with high picks, when its not even reaching to begin with, and you have a one dimensional team, that will rely and pray on FA and trades.

Edit: This also isn't the point, but what was the last top d-man the Flyers drafted and developed in the league. Better yet since the "new nhl"? Other teams do it, and the Flyers scouting department when it comes to d-men sucks ass imo. Or even a top 4 d-man?
- flyer_nutter

The Flyers have never drafted and developed an elite defensemen. Ever. In their entire history.

But they have taken risks that have panned out. Giroux was a risk, so was Gagne.

So if it Happens to be another center we take at 11 then what? We play g schenn coots Laughton as top 4 centers? What to do with this years pick when heMakes team not to mention Laughton is a #1 pick playing 4th line center instead of 3rd line and coots talent wasted at 3rd line or scheen wasted if coots moves up. Sorry sometimes you have to project wHat your team needs are going to Be down the line if you want to be a team that builds through the draft or else your just tsking talent and moving it for pieces you need
- SMS4016

Yes, the new CBA outlawing trades really has the Flyers stuck with all the centers they've drafted.

Agree 100% there was NO NEED to draft coots. We had g briere and just traded for scheen. The pick should have been Hamilton. Was coots rated higher? Probally a little on most Teams boards but when building through the draft sometimes you just plain have to go with your needs.
- SMS4016

Drafting the best player available is the smart way to go. Now that is subjective, as teams see players differently. But I'm glad they picked Couturier.

The Flyers have never drafted and developed an elite defensemen. Ever. In their entire history.

But they have taken risks that have panned out. Giroux was a risk, so was Gagne.
- Jsaquella

It is true that the Flyers have never drafted an elite defenseman. The Flyers need to improve the defense. I personally don't care how they do it. By draft, UFA, or trade. As long as they do it.

No, Hamilton would not have been a reach. Hard to say what the big deal is on Maatta, because he's yet to even play in the NHL yet, while Laughton had a bit of a breakout year for Oshawa and is considered an even better prospect than he was when the Flyers drafted him. Maatta pretty much treaded water and is as highly regarded now as he was last year.

Good defensemen have always been expensive. High prices on trading or a good defenseman is not something that just started happening over the past four or five years, they have always been expensive to trade for.

There have been as many elite defensemen taken in round 2 or 3 as in round one. In fact, of the Norris finalists this year, only Ryan Suter was a first round pick.

Niklas Lidstrom, who is one of the greatest defensemen of all time was a third rounder. Shea Weber was a 2nd rounder. Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder. Simply taking a guy in the first round doesn't mean he'll be a success and it's not especially smart to risk a pretty rare high draft pick because of a perceived systemic need.
- Jsaquella

My point simply being the time most projections had Maata going ahead of Laughton. Hamilton and Coots roughly in the same area.

They wouldnt have been reaches at the time. If thats the case thats where I would look at organizational long term need. I dont think that is done, and far too often the safe play, and going with a forward is made.

I'll really run with your point of good d-men even being taken in later rounds. The Flyers scouting department I have had questions with for a while. Good with forwards... However when it comes to d-men or even advising the organization on taking one, brutal.

Edit: I think the ways of buying a D core, or really solid d-men either in FA or trades are dead. OR even if they are available the team will have to overpay. They had a chance to not reach and try to fix that need with Hamilton. They have a chance now as well with not reaching to begin with. The time has come.