So you think the Pens only offered Staal that contract to make themselves look good?
- MJL

YeaH to save face with fans. They knew he wanted to move on for more playing time and that he wanted to go to carolina. Don't you remember all the pens fans screaming not to trade him?

That's when it really boils down to the coach doing a good job of tailoring the system to meet the roster's capabilities...and that's where my biggest concerns lie.
- Jsaquella

Add another mobile puck-mover like J McBain/A Martinez/C Summers/K Russell and call it a summer...

BTW, Flyers Faithful did the math, and it turns out the Flyers only have ~$1.9M of summer cap space... yes, that includes the 10% cushion:

I really do not understand this stop gap talk? How does this improve the team at all? I understand at the trade deadline for a cup contender but we are not a cup contender most would agree. So if it's homers job to build a team toward winning a Stanley cup how Is a stop gap at any position helpful? And also if You have "it's" at the goalie or defense positions you can forget ever winning a cup again. Cup winners never have ifs.
- SMS4016

That's because the Flyers are in the NHL. And don't operate in the fantasy land of suggested NHL trades on an online forum. So if the right move is not there. You bide your time with a short term move, without long term ramifications to the Cap, or the prospect base and stable of draft picks. Until the right move presents itself. Rather then make a move just to make a move.

If you buy out Briere, and then trade Brayden Schenn or Couturier for Yandle, that will eat up the savings on Briere.
- Jsaquella

Brayden Schenn for Yandle straight up? I dont think that gets it done but its a move I would do.

Yandle is interesting, but this team imo needs a guy thats a step above that. If they draft a player who becomes a solid top 4 d-man, so be it. At least they took a risk, instead of going for the safe pick in a forward.

However to waste assets for a d-man who essentially will be targeted by other teams looking to expose his side of the ice? I like d-men, who first and foremost can play solid D. That are consistent, and you can rely on them to keep the puck out of the net.

If you are paying big money, and giving up good assets, that d-man better be able to do all those things, against the best players, and do it with consistency.

Add another mobile puck-mover like J McBain/A Martinez/C Summers/K Russell and call it a summer...

BTW, Flyers Faithful did the math, and it turns out the Flyers only have ~$1.9M over summer cap space... yes, that includes the 10% cushion:



- Tomahawk

Yeah, after the Mason, Rosehill and Rinaldo extensions, they pretty much maxed things out. It's obvious that they'll be using at least one CBO, if not both this summer.

Yeah, after the Mason, Rosehill and Rinaldo extensions, they pretty much maxed things out. It's obvious that they'll be using at least one CBO, if not both this summer.
- Jsaquella

I think they will do what I have seen in a few places.

Buy out Briere, and unless they really need the money, give Bryzgalov one more real season to see if he is the guy long term.

Not a bad approach.

I really do not understand this stop gap talk? How does this improve the team at all? I understand at the trade deadline for a cup contender but we are not a cup contender most would agree. So if it's homers job to build a team toward winning a Stanley cup how Is a stop gap at any position helpful? And also if You have "it's" at the goalie or defense positions you can forget ever winning a cup again. Cup winners never have ifs.
- SMS4016

Actually, most Cup winners have "ifs". Last year people wondered if the Kings could score enough to win. The year before people wondered if Boston would be able to shake off the 3-0 collapse to the Flyers in 2010. The Blackhawks had a huge if in goal in 2010. The Penguins defensive depth was an if in 2009, the Red Wings age and Osgood were ifs in 2008.

The salary cap has done a good job of eliminating perfect teams.

No offense or anything but I dont think most of the teams with the kind of d-man we all want, and agree this team probably needs, are trading that player to begin with.

Not for Coots, not for Giroux, not for anyone. If I am Holmgren I would explore trade options but I dont think any team gives up that #1 d-man to begin with. These guys are that dynamic, and that important.

So I think the draft is finally where the Flyers have to look. What was the last top d-man or anything really close to that they developed and had play for the organization for more than 5 years?

The other option is to overpay for "projects'. Guys who already come with inconsistency and question marks to their game, and you have to hope they put it together. I personally dont like taking more inconsistent trash on to this team.
- flyer_nutter

Most likely you have to go back to Jimmy Watson!

See the thing for me is the Flyers have less to work with now. JVR is gone. Read while a good player doesnt command the same value imo. Coots and Schenn, for all the hype and fruit loops right now have just "potential".

Giroux is a good player who has drastically improved on faceoffs, but has also shown a bad trend of looking too much for the pretty play, and not being great defensively. That can improve, but he isn't a complete player yet.

Richards and Carter, at that time were pretty proven I think. I get what you are saying, but honestly I dont see any team trading a top d-man, unless its a guy with real questions like Buff or a more one dimensional guy like Yandle. Guys who will cost an arm and a leg, and in the end I dont think those kind of players are worth it.

The best teams build through the draft. I believe in that model. The Flyers have to stop this stupid belief that they can rely on FA, trades and essentially their pocket books to build a team. Not anymore. The D should have been looked at, when Pronger went down. The Flyers could have looked then. Now they are paying the price, and will do so even more with the departure of Timonen.

They have a chance to finally start fixing the issue with this draft. It wouldNT be reaching for a d-man at the 11th pick, and I will really question whoever the hell is really running poop if they take a forward.
- flyer_nutter

First of all, if Giroux was made available on the trade market, the Flyers would have to hire a lot more staff to answer all the phone calls they'd be getting. So I think your description of Giroux is off base.
Couturier and B Schenn also have a very high trade value.
The Flyers added 4 player trading two players they drafted. Giroux was also drafted. They got Luke Schenn by trading a player they drafted. While I agree that the Flyers need to be more patient and do a better job drafting and developing defenseman. Let's not act like they haven't used the draft to build this team.

I think they will do what I have seen in a few places.

Buy out Briere, and unless they really need the money, give Bryzgalov one more real season to see if he is the guy long term.

Not a bad approach.
- flyer_nutter

They have to be smart in spending the money. They can build through the draft and still sign a capable veteran for the short term, until the draft picks mature.

I don't care if they take a defenseman in the first round, because they have picks in each of the first 3 rounds and can address it later.

YeaH to save face with fans. They knew he wanted to move on for more playing time and that he wanted to go to carolina. Don't you remember all the pens fans screaming not to trade him?
- SMS4016

Simply not the case. The Pens wanted to keep Staal. And only traded him when he forced the trade by not willing to sign there.

See the thing for me is the Flyers have less to work with now. JVR is gone. Read while a good player doesnt command the same value imo. Coots and Schenn, for all the hype and fruit loops right now have just "potential".

Giroux is a good player who has drastically improved on faceoffs, but has also shown a bad trend of looking too much for the pretty play, and not being great defensively. That can improve, but he isn't a complete player yet.

Richards and Carter, at that time were pretty proven I think. I get what you are saying, but honestly I dont see any team trading a top d-man, unless its a guy with real questions like Buff or a more one dimensional guy like Yandle. Guys who will cost an arm and a leg, and in the end I dont think those kind of players are worth it.

The best teams build through the draft. I believe in that model. The Flyers have to stop this stupid belief that they can rely on FA, trades and essentially their pocket books to build a team. Not anymore. The D should have been looked at, when Pronger went down. The Flyers could have looked then. Now they are paying the price, and will do so even more with the departure of Timonen.

They have a chance to finally start fixing the issue with this draft. It wouldNT be reaching for a d-man at the 11th pick, and I will really question whoever the hell is really running poop if they take a forward.
- flyer_nutter

Yes!

That's because the Flyers are in the NHL. And don't operate in the fantasy land of suggested NHL trades on an online forum. So if the right move is not there. You bide your time with a short term move, without long term ramifications to the Cap, or the prospect base and stable of draft picks. Until the right move presents itself. Rather then make a move just to make a move.
- MJL

I agree with you. What I'm saying is don't over value players such as read coots scheen. If you can move one of them with a pick or picks and prospects to make a good trade then pUll the trigger. Don't just sit back and stop gap and let everyone develop and not address the obvious needs. That's not fantasy it's called proactive.

Most likely you have to go back to Jimmy Watson!
- BiggE

Watson is probably the one and only. They've always been a team that traded to fill in their defense, and defensemen have always been costly. It's not some new fangled thing.

When the Flyers traded for Mark Howe, they didn't get him for a song. The same goes for Brad McCrimmon or Eric Desjardins.

When th Flyers landed Howe, they traded not only their leading scorer from the previous season(Ken Linseman 92 pts in 79 games), they also traded a good forward prospect(Greg Adams) and a 1st rounder.

McCrimmon cost them their starting goalie from the year before, who won the Vezina in his first year as a Bruin(Pete Peeters)

We all know that Desjardins came over in the deal for Recchi, who was fresh off a 100 point season

Yes!

- BiggE

And the best teams that build through the draft actually can draft elite players other than centers correct? When's the last time we drafted an elite goalie or winger or dmAn? Oh I guess we will start now because all of us on hb say that's the way to do it. I wish it would happen that way but I have much more faith in homer making a trade to land what we need than drafting and developing what we need.

I agree with you. What I'm saying is don't over value players such as read coots scheen. If you can move one of them with a pick or picks and prospects to make a good trade then pUll the trigger. Don't just sit back and stop gap and let everyone develop and not address the obvious needs. That's not fantasy it's called proactive.
- SMS4016

I'm kind of in the middle here. I dont believe in sitting on their ass doing nothing, but also in letting players develop. Coots in particular, and a lot depends on him and Brayden Schenn to a degree.

The one thing this team needs to do is build a more complete team through the draft. Building it only in terms of being one dimensional and focusing on offense isn't a good plan to me. D-men, and good d-men in particular in today's league always will cost more than a forward of the same caliber.

They are harder to develop. If the right deal is there, I would do it, but I dont think there will be one to begin with is where I am getting at. I dont think any team will be giving up their star d-man for anything the Flyers have. I also dont think its a really good idea to give away assets on second-tier d-men.

I think a big problem with this team for years has been the best players, not being the best players. Or the guys who the organization hangs that cape on. All I ask is no more expecting second tier guys, to carry the team. It leads to inconsistency on ice, and inconsistency as we have seen for years.

Thats basically my theory of why you have seen this team run so hot and cold for a really long time.

I agree with you. What I'm saying is don't over value players such as read coots scheen. If you can move one of them with a pick or picks and prospects to make a good trade then pUll the trigger. Don't just sit back and stop gap and let everyone develop and not address the obvious needs. That's not fantasy it's called proactive.
- SMS4016

Who is overvaluing those players? Who has disagreed with moving anyone to make a good trade?

I agree with you. What I'm saying is don't over value players such as read coots scheen. If you can move one of them with a pick or picks and prospects to make a good trade then pUll the trigger. Don't just sit back and stop gap and let everyone develop and not address the obvious needs. That's not fantasy it's called proactive.
- SMS4016

It's also dangerous to undervalue young players because they have growing pains.

The Isles needed a top line center, so they traded a highly regarded young defenseman who had been an up and down player for a few years, including some really bad struglles where he looked totally lost on the ice, plus a 1st rounder for a first line center who had averaged around a PPG during a low scoring era.

That top line center who had been averaging a point per game was Alexei Yashin. The defenseman was Zdeno Chara. The pick turned into Jason Spezza.

And the best teams that build through the draft actually can draft elite players other than centers correct? When's the last time we drafted an elite goalie or winger or dmAn? Oh I guess we will start now because all of us on hb say that's the way to do it. I wish it would happen that way but I have much more faith in homer making a trade to land what we need than drafting and developing what we need.
- SMS4016

Does a player have to be elite to be considered a good selection using a draft pick? There aren't that many elite players in the entire league.

And the best teams that build through the draft actually can draft elite players other than centers correct? When's the last time we drafted an elite goalie or winger or dmAn? Oh I guess we will start now because all of us on hb say that's the way to do it. I wish it would happen that way but I have much more faith in homer making a trade to land what we need than drafting and developing what we need.
- SMS4016

Well this is basically what I am getting at. You cant just focus on one aspect from the draft. You need to build a complete team. Not just use every high pick on a forward.

Sure you get guys that become great in the later rounds. I rather play the odds, instead of hoping for that. Weird things happen, but the best players, are usually taken with the better picks. Or they can continue on praying that another team is even willing to trade the pieces they need, or pray on FA.

We all know that Desjardins came over in the deal for Recchi, who was fresh off a 100 point season
- Jsaquella

God, that was a ballsy trade.

And the best teams that build through the draft actually can draft elite players other than centers correct? When's the last time we drafted an elite goalie or winger or dmAn? Oh I guess we will start now because all of us on hb say that's the way to do it. I wish it would happen that way but I have much more faith in homer making a trade to land what we need than drafting and developing what we need.
- SMS4016

They have drafted a few D and wingers, just haven't been able to either hold on to them or develop them properly. However they haven't drafted a top goalie since Hextall and he was a 6th round pick.

Pitkanen (2002?) is a good defenseman, perhaps not elite, but they could use a guy like him today. However he wasn't given a chance to mature here. Also Sbisa may still turn out to be a pretty good player, he is still pretty young and of course it will be years until we see how good a pick Ghost is.

On the wing, they have actually drafted some pretty good ones over the last 12 years, Gagne(yes he was drafted as a center, but he was moved to wing very early in his career, Justin Williams, Giroux (was drafted as a RW, was moved to center well after turning pro), and JVR.

To me its both the drafting and the developing of D and goalies that has hurt this team.

Well this is basically what I am getting at. You cant just focus on one aspect from the draft. You need to build a complete team. Not just use every high pick on a forward.

Sure you get guys that become great in the later rounds. I rather play the odds, instead of hoping for that. Weird things happen, but the best players, are usually taken with the better picks. Or they can continue on praying that another team is even willing to trade the pieces they need, or pray on FA.
- flyer_nutter

The only aspect of the draft that the Flyers focus on, is selecting who they feel is the best available player. Which I agree with completely.

Simply not the case. The Pens wanted to keep Staal. And only traded him when he forced the trade by not willing to sign there.
- MJL

Exactly you made my point. Staal told pit he was NOT RESIGNING WITH THEM so why did pit even offer a contract? They knew they had to trade him or get nothing for him. Only one plausible reason to offer a contract to a player that tells you hes not resigning with you which is to save face. See fans we wanted to keep him honest we did, we even offered him a contract but he left anyways it's not our fault keep buying season tickets and jerSeys please so we can get richer Fedotanko said he's not resIgning in Philly how much you wanna bet Philly doesn't offer him a contract

God, that was a ballsy trade.
- Tomahawk

So was the trade for Howe. Linseman was starting to replace Clarke as the top line center offensively-and especially has the hated little bastard everyone wanted to kill-but Allen knew Howe was a premier defenseman and rolled the dice.

LeClair breaking out really made that Recchi deal a great one for the Flyers. I remember Jacques Demers saying at the time, that if they put LeClair with Lindros they'd be unstoppable.