Weber only came into the picture after Suter fell through, though.

Essentially, Suter was Plan A, B and C, Carle was Plan D, Weber was DEFCON 1.
- Tomahawk

It's not often the Flyers come away without landing a big name.

Ok be patient and how are d problems getting solved? The draft? Hahahaha free agency? Hahahaha. Offer sheet? Hahahahahahahahaha. The only way we are getting #1 dman is trade and we WILL overpay. Mind as well trade from position we are strong at (center) to lessen the overall depth of our team.
- SMS4016

That's extremely naive. Most teams get their #1 d men through drafting. It's nothing to laugh at.

When's the final one coming out? Next year? I know the last Subban is this season. Maybe I missed the last Staal.
- mayorofangrytown

Jared's the last one right? He's already a Cane, lol.

Ok be patient and how are d problems getting solved? The draft? Hahahaha free agency? Hahahaha. Offer sheet? Hahahahahahahahaha. The only way we are getting #1 dman is trade and we WILL overpay. Mind as well trade from position we are strong at (center) to lessen the overall depth of our team.
- SMS4016

You aren't going to fix this team overnight. They are most likely 2-3 seasons away from being a contender. The Edmonton Oilers had both Gretzky and Messier going into the 79-80 season, but were woefully thin on D. Going by many posters on this threads logic, they should have traded Messier and some picks for a top defenseman. I'm pretty sure they are damn glad they didn't and instead held onto their talent, continued to build via the draft and went on to win 5 cups between 84 and 90.

Please understand I am NOT comparing Couturier and Schenn (or for that matter Giroux) to Gretzky and Messier. I just for once would like to see the Flyers be patient and build through the draft, rather than always going for the big spash/quick fix. Its much easier to use free agency and to make trades to fill out the bottom of the roster than it is to use them to acquire your top players.

Thats only because Plan E, cloning Pronger, was a failure!

- BiggE

The cloning went fine, it was the rapid aging to get him ready for this season that went wrong.

I really do not understand this stop gap talk? How does this improve the team at all? I understand at the trade deadline for a cup contender but we are not a cup contender most would agree. So if it's homers job to build a team toward winning a Stanley cup how Is a stop gap at any position helpful? And also if You have "it's" at the goalie or defense positions you can forget ever winning a cup again. Cup winners never have ifs.

It's not often the Flyers come away without landing a big name.
- stveshdy

Sources say they will target Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond (biggest name in NHL history). Pretty sure that's what Holmgren meant when he said they wanted to get bigger.

You aren't going to fix this team overnight. They are most likely 2-3 seasons away from being a contender. The Edmonton Oilers had both Gretzky and Messier going into the 79-80 season, but were woefully thin on D. Going by many posters on this threads logic, they should have traded Messier and some picks for a top defenseman. I'm pretty sure they are damn glad they didn't and instead held onto their talent, continued to build via the draft and went on to win 5 cups between 84 and 90.

Please understand I am NOT comparing Couturier and Schenn (or for that matter Giroux) to Gretzky and Messier. I just for once would like to see the Flyers be patient and build through the draft, rather than always going for the big spash/quick fix. Its much easier to use free agency and to make trades to fill out the bottom of the roster than it is to use them to acquire your top players.
- BiggE

I agree 100%. I've always said this team is a few years away. That's why I say start filling in the few pieces now to grow with the core.

I agree 100%. I've always said this team is a few years away. That's why I say start filling in the few pieces now to grow with the core.
- SMS4016

I would start by freeing up as much cap space as possible.

I don't really want Yandle, sure he can put up 50+ points a season, but isn't his defensive game lacking and his physical game sub par? The best D men are 2-way.
- JAKEw1234

So, what D men are (reportedly) available that can produce along those lines while playing a solid defensive/physical game? In my estimation...none. Those hoping/waiting for the Flyers to trade for an elite, two-way D man are likey to be disappointed one way or another (either because that player doens't exist/isn't available or because the price paid was too high). More realistically, we're looking at a Yandle or some other such player that has his imperfections (Buff etc.), at a fairly high price, or if looking to pay less, a younger guy with unrealized potential or a reclamation prooject, or a veteran past his prime.

I really do not understand this stop gap talk? How does this improve the team at all? I understand at the trade deadline for a cup contender but we are not a cup contender most would agree. So if it's homers job to build a team toward winning a Stanley cup how Is a stop gap at any position helpful? And also if You have "it's" at the goalie or defense positions you can forget ever winning a cup again. Cup winners never have ifs.
- SMS4016

No offense or anything but I dont think most of the teams with the kind of d-man we all want, and agree this team probably needs, are trading that player to begin with.

Not for Coots, not for Giroux, not for anyone. If I am Holmgren I would explore trade options but I dont think any team gives up that #1 d-man to begin with. These guys are that dynamic, and that important.

So I think the draft is finally where the Flyers have to look. What was the last top d-man or anything really close to that they developed and had play for the organization for more than 5 years?

The other option is to overpay for "projects'. Guys who already come with inconsistency and question marks to their game, and you have to hope they put it together. I personally dont like taking more inconsistent trash on to this team.

Jared's the last one right? He's already a Cane, lol.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, Jared, he ripped right past me.

I would take a shot at the last Subban if he dropped to us in the 3rd. That would be an interesting choice.

So, what D men are (reportedly) available that can produce along those lines while playing a solid defensive/physical game? In my estimation...none. Those hoping/waiting for the Flyers to trade for an elite, two-way D man are likey to be disappointed one way or another (either because that player doens't exist/isn't available or because the price paid was too high). More realistically, we're looking at a Yandle or some other such player that has his imperfections (Buff etc.), at a fairly high price, or if looking to pay less, a younger guy with unrealized potential or a reclamation prooject, or a veteran past his prime.
- exlund

(btw, nice job on your draft profiles)

I would start by freeing up as much cap space as possible.
- stveshdy

That was part of mY plan. Buy out bryz and briere get a young goalie with some experience with high upside ala bernier. ( we got mason ) quite fine with that.

That was part of mY plan. Buy out bryz and briere get a young goalie with some experience with high upside ala bernier. ( we got mason ) quite fine with that.
- SMS4016

I'm all for buying out Bryzgalov. If it seems possible to have Backstrom or Emery come in via free agency. The Flyers should have some idea by the time the buyout period in june rolls around. Bernier is an interesting option, but why not see what the team has in Mason first before giving up huge pieces for Bernier.

If not I'd keep Bryz. No real harm to give him one more year, but under no conditions do I want Mason being handed the reigns outright for next season. That would be a disaster move imo.

The one thing with buying out Bryz and Briere for cap space reasons, where does that money go? There isn't too much star power out in FA this year, and thats imo what this team needs. Not more secondary players.

So, what D men are (reportedly) available that can produce along those lines while playing a solid defensive/physical game? In my estimation...none. Those hoping/waiting for the Flyers to trade for an elite, two-way D man are likey to be disappointed one way or another (either because that player doens't exist/isn't available or because the price paid was too high). More realistically, we're looking at a Yandle or some other such player that has his imperfections (Buff etc.), at a fairly high price, or if looking to pay less, a younger guy with unrealized potential or a reclamation prooject, or a veteran past his prime.
- exlund

That's when it really boils down to the coach doing a good job of tailoring the system to meet the roster's capabilities...and that's where my biggest concerns lie.

Also, Agree with Tomahawk on your draft profiles. Haven't made it all the way through, but the ones I have read are good stuff.

[quote=flyer_nutter]No offense or anything but I dont think most of the teams with the kind of d-man we all want, and agree this team probably needs, are trading that player to begin with.

Not for Coots, not for Giroux, not for anyone. If I am Holmgren I would explore trade options but I dont think any team gives up that #1 d-man to begin with. These guys are that dynamic, and that important.

So I think the draft is finally where the Flyers have to look. What was the last top d-man or anything really close to that they developed and had play for the organization for more than 5 years?

The other option is to overpay for "projects'. Guys who already come with inconsistency and question marks to their game, and you have to hope they put it together. I personally dont like taking more inconsistent trash on to this Iteam. I agree it will be very tough to pull off but by overpaying a little homer can pull it off. Look at the raping in the Richard and Carter trades. Timing is needed for sure but these Players are available at different times. I have faith in homer.

I'm all for buying out Bryzgalov. If it seems possible to have Backstrom or Emery come in via free agency. The Flyers should have some idea by the time the buyout period in june rolls around. Bernier is an interesting option, but why not see what the team has in Mason first before giving up huge pieces for Bernier.

If not I'd keep Bryz. No real harm to give him one more year, but under no conditions do I want Mason being handed the reigns outright for next season. That would be a disaster move imo.

The one thing with buying out Bryz and Briere for cap space reasons, where does that money go? There isn't too much star power out in FA this year, and thats imo what this team needs. Not more secondary players.
- flyer_nutter

If you buy out Briere, and then trade Brayden Schenn or Couturier for Yandle, that will eat up the savings on Briere.

Yes yoUr right. And there room for 3 quality goalies and 8 quality dmen but point is in a cap world other areas of your team will suffer. And voynov is as good or betteR than the over rated doughty right now in many aspects except hitting sO I think. Some would say he will be a #1 some not time will tell.
- SMS4016

Doughty is a quality player, and Voynov at this point, is not the player that Doughty is. That's not to say that Voynov isn't a very good player in his own right. But he's not at that level yet.

Sources say they will target Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond (biggest name in NHL history). Pretty sure that's what Holmgren meant when he said they wanted to get bigger.
- BringBack25

If you look at their prospect list I would make the same judgement. Not that getting bigger is always better but you don't want 50% of your prospects under 6' and weighing in at 180 lbs either.

None... I would first offer a combination of picks/prospects/Dman

Comfortable moving a combo of SOME of the following (not all obviously): 1st pick (2013), 2nd pick(2013), 3rd (2013), 1st (2014), 2nd (2014), 3rd (2014) Mez, Coburn, Grossman, Laughton, Ghost, Cousins, Manning, Akeson, Lauridsen....

I'm comforatble with a package of some of the above elements that would fulfill the Kings needs/asking price that wouldn't take us to the cleaners too much. I think we would pay a steep price. But we have no choice to pay the price if we want that type of player NOW.
- Chris48

How does any of that fulfill the Kings needs? Why do they need those picks, or Coburn or Grossmann? Why do they need any of those prospects, over the need they have for Voynov? They have their own draft picks and prospects.
What is the genesis of LA trading Voynov? That the Flyers need him?

And they're team would suffer overall with cap. And it was also rimless pit only offered that contract because they knew he wanted to move on so they wouldn't look like they didn't offer Him a deal or low ball him.
- SMS4016

So you think the Pens only offered Staal that contract to make themselves look good?

I'm all for buying out Bryzgalov. If it seems possible to have Backstrom or Emery come in via free agency. The Flyers should have some idea by the time the buyout period in june rolls around. Bernier is an interesting option, but why not see what the team has in Mason first before giving up huge pieces for Bernier.

If not I'd keep Bryz. No real harm to give him one more year, but under no conditions do I want Mason being handed the reigns outright for next season. That would be a disaster move imo.

The one thing with buying out Bryz and Briere for cap space reasons, where does that money go? There isn't too much star power out in FA this year, and thats imo what this team needs. Not more secondary players.
- flyer_nutter

No I said 4 month ago buy out bryz get a young goalie. I like mason. I agree get a vet to play along side him. If mason doesn't develop further over the next few years then move on. But in the mean time We better be filling other hole ie #1 dman top winger or if mason doesn't pan out then we will have to many holes to fill and before you know it our core will be wasted. Window to win cups when core matures isnT that long anymore

[quote=flyer_nutter]No offense or anything but I dont think most of the teams with the kind of d-man we all want, and agree this team probably needs, are trading that player to begin with.

Not for Coots, not for Giroux, not for anyone. If I am Holmgren I would explore trade options but I dont think any team gives up that #1 d-man to begin with. These guys are that dynamic, and that important.

So I think the draft is finally where the Flyers have to look. What was the last top d-man or anything really close to that they developed and had play for the organization for more than 5 years?

The other option is to overpay for "projects'. Guys who already come with inconsistency and question marks to their game, and you have to hope they put it together. I personally dont like taking more inconsistent trash on to this Iteam. I agree it will be very tough to pull off but by overpaying a little homer can pull it off. Look at the raping in the Richard and Carter trades. Timing is needed for sure but these Players are available at different times. I have faith in homer.
- SMS4016

See the thing for me is the Flyers have less to work with now. JVR is gone. Read while a good player doesnt command the same value imo. Coots and Schenn, for all the hype and fruit loops right now have just "potential".

Giroux is a good player who has drastically improved on faceoffs, but has also shown a bad trend of looking too much for the pretty play, and not being great defensively. That can improve, but he isn't a complete player yet.

Richards and Carter, at that time were pretty proven I think. I get what you are saying, but honestly I dont see any team trading a top d-man, unless its a guy with real questions like Buff or a more one dimensional guy like Yandle. Guys who will cost an arm and a leg, and in the end I dont think those kind of players are worth it.

The best teams build through the draft. I believe in that model. The Flyers have to stop this stupid belief that they can rely on FA, trades and essentially their pocket books to build a team. Not anymore. The D should have been looked at, when Pronger went down. The Flyers could have looked then. Now they are paying the price, and will do so even more with the departure of Timonen.

They have a chance to finally start fixing the issue with this draft. It wouldNT be reaching for a d-man at the 11th pick, and I will really question whoever the hell is really running poop if they take a forward.

After the Weber offer sheet plan didn't work out, there was no plan B. All the eggs were in the Weber basket, when that failed, Holmgren had nowhere to go. The contract offers to Suter and Parise was nothing more than Holmgren trying to save face. He had zero chance to land either player, if he didn't know that he was the only one.
- PLindbergh31

There is no plan B. It doesn't exist. It's go for one of the top defenseman. And if you don't get one of them, then you are left with the scraps. This notion of a plan B is ridiculous.