But he didn't play with any of them consistently during 5-on-5 play. Just to be clear, I agree that Huberdeau would/should win the Calder over Yakupov.

And no one with a valid opinion called them "superhuman".
- MaximumBone

I think it's Huberdeau's, and quite easily. The runners up, IMO, could be any of Yak, Schultz, Saad. Yes, I realize Saad had amazing linemates. Cracking that line and doing what he did impressed me, what can I say.

Kadri's insane on ice shooting percentage to start the year was just as misleading as any +- stat IMO. I just don't think its fair to discard +- while not pointing out that flaws exist in other statistics as well. Thanks to both you guys for civil discussion
- rollpards19

Totally agree. When looking at offensive production, you gotta look at the shooting percentage, competition they face, their teammates, zone starts. Kadri's having the "2012 Eberle Season". He plays soft minutes, has a high shooting percentage, high offensive zone start %, etc.

BUT, +- does not represent one individual's play. Look at the STL-LA game 1. Steen scored SH because Quick coughed up the puck by the net. 5 players on the ice were a -1 because of a mistake Quick made. +- doesn't reflect one player, it reflects a team. That's why Saad's was high and that's why Huberdeau's was low.

Well, at least we know your opinion. On a degree of hardness, it's about a minus 2.2.

The only thing correct in your argument is concerning Bodin. He was a better rookie than both the Yakker and Schultz. Mind you, I suspect both our guys will be better players through their careers than any of them, but that's not what the Calder is about.

Eastern bias my ass. Truth was it was a sad rookie crop.

It took all season for Yakupov to learn the ropes, and Schultz fizzled from overload and was anything but a good player in the last half of the schedule. Which is all OK. But this summer he will lift a few weights and at least have a clue about how to handle an 82-game schedule. Trophies be damned; they win you zilch down the line.

Remember that Howie Meeker won the Calder for the Leafs. A lot of good it did either.
Maroussi
- maroussi

A bad rookie class. These guys had no training camp. No getting use to the team. No exhibition games, some teams had new coaches, some had numerous new players, they had 48 games squashed into 3.5 months. Often playing 4 games in 3 nights. The Oilers had a 9 game road stretch with games back to back with a hurt goalie and injured dmen.

This might have been one of the hardest seasons ever to be a rookie. Then you say one fizzled because they stopped playing him half the game in the condensed season? People say yak picked it up at the end. Yeah, his points often translated with his ice time and who he played with. If you have him playing a shut down role with smyth and horcoff he is going to get less points that someone on the first line.

There was some amazing talent this year. If this went 82 games we might be talking about entirely different players altogether.

You can sit back and compare players but you have your head up your a$$ if you think any of the guys we are talking about don't have talent.

25 games is well over 25% of the season, plus Colorado didn't finish as poorly as Edmonton, nice try.

Edit: And I fully believe the Nuge should have won the Calder. I think he was robbed. GP should have been a factor in that debacle.
- trolleytracks

By that logic, if you're below average for 60 games, that should reflect on your season, not the good 20-some games he played.

48 year old rookie sensation Damien Brunner got F'd in the A too.

Yeah, you're making good points. I think I wasn't grasping it because I don't look at +- like people who are making stupid comments. I know Pascal Dupuis isn't that much better than Datsyuk, but I wasn't considering some people would even think that. I still like the stat for what it is
- rollpards19

It can be useful when you look at minutes played, compare to the team they're on, and their role. It can tell you a few things about what's happening on a team, and who is carrying their weight, and where.

Loom at some of the comments earlier in the thread....

Saad for example came in and found a spot on Chicago's first line, not to mention he helped his team win the Presidents trophy.

Gallagher helped his team go from absolute s#it to NE Division Champions, not to mention he was a +10 on the year.


- The-O-G

It is probably because the writers want a defensemen to actually play defense. Schultz's -17 is Cam Fowler rookie year bad!

Plus Schultz is a lying Dbag.



Yak,,,,,,that is one that is a bit perplexing to be honest. I thought he had a real good year.
- H.E.Pennypacker

This. Then again, Schultz has never been interested in playing defense. I don't know why the Oilers don't just switch him to wing like the Sharks did with Burns.
- duxcup07

weird, the guy had PK time.

Fukin troll blogs...

It can be useful when you look at minutes played, compare to the team they're on, and their role. It can tell you a few things about what's happening on a team, and who is carrying their weight, and where.

Loom at some of the comments earlier in the thread....









weird, the guy had PK time.
- Dirte

The thing about Schultz's +- is that he was historically bad at allowing zone entries with the puck against and not creating any for for the last 25 games of the year, way worse than anyone on the Oilers, or the league, so a lot of his +- problems can actually be traced back to him, but you're right that Saad's definitely can't be traced back to him

Yeah, you're making good points. I think I wasn't grasping it because I don't look at +- like people who are making stupid comments. I know Pascal Dupuis isn't that much better than Datsyuk, but I wasn't considering some people would even think that. I still like the stat for what it is
- rollpards19

not sure if it's just me not understanding due to inability to convey tone over the internet, but are you saying Dupuis is slightly better than Datsyuk??

The thing about Schultz's +- is that he was historically bad at allowing zone entries with the puck against and not creating any for for the last 25 games of the year, way worse than anyone on the Oilers, or the league, so a lot of his +- problems can actually be traced back to him, but you're right that Saad's definitely can't be traced back to him
- rollpards19

yea he definitely slowed down. If EDM's gonna take a leap in the standings, he's gonna need to bring it all year

Penner's a force

not sure if it's just me not understanding due to inability to convey tone over the internet, but are you saying Dupuis is slightly better than Datsyuk??
- TheNugeIsHuge

Just terrible writing sorry

not sure if it's just me not understanding due to inability to convey tone over the internet, but are you saying Dupuis is slightly better than Datsyuk??
- TheNugeIsHuge

I read this and wrote a whole 'you should die in a fire you piece of sh!t' rebuttal, but upon further review I think he was just talking about their +- ratings this year.

I read this and wrote a whole 'you should die in a fire you piece of sh!t' rebuttal, but upon further review I think he was just talking about their +- ratings this year.
- ShooterMcGavin

oh so he means Pascal Dupuis' isn't that much better than Datsyuk. Apostrophe means everything

oh so he means Pascal Dupuis' isn't that much better than Datsyuk. Apostrophe means everything
- TheNugeIsHuge

I really hope that's what he means.

I really hope that's what he means.
- ShooterMcGavin

It was, poor writing like I said above, sorry for the blood pressure increase. Hope to see your boys in round 2

-4 and -17 are why! How can you even suggest Schultz as a legit candidate for the Calder? At least with Yakupov you have a bit of an argument. Neither of them deserve consideration. Sorry. Not really.....

The more i see people bringing up +/- the more i want to puke. It's not totally useless, but context is needed and it just looks dumb when you throw it out there as an argument on its own.

-4 and -17 are why! How can you even suggest Schultz as a legit candidate for the Calder? At least with Yakupov you have a bit of an argument. Neither of them deserve consideration. Sorry. Not really.....
- MadManPaddy

please enlighten us as to why yakupov didnt deserve consideration....?

In your opinion; was it his lack of points? Lack of goals?.........

-4 and -17 are why! How can you even suggest Schultz as a legit candidate for the Calder? At least with Yakupov you have a bit of an argument. Neither of them deserve consideration. Sorry. Not really.....
- MadManPaddy

hence the pages of us saying why +- is useless.(at least in Yak's case)

Please. Tell me. How does Gallagher deserve a calder nomination over Yak?

Q.Q

cry me a river. neither were exceptional.

Actually, adults don't exist in Deadmonton, it's run by hoodlums!!
- newmy

I love people who talk big but don't have the balls to put his/her/its team on.

once again if you don't have anything to add please be quite while the adults talk

Q.Q

cry me a river. neither were exceptional.
- MisterC

Agreed. At least not for long enough stretches.

Not surprised about schultz really. But certainly questioning saad over yaks.

Either way; meh. Dont really care. Care much more about whos gonna be dominant long term. And watching yaks really start to figure out the pro game late, i feel very good about his prospects..

hence the pages of us saying why +- is useless.(at least in Yak's case)

Please. Tell me. How does Gallagher deserve a calder nomination over Yak?
- TheNugeIsHuge

More responsibility on a first place team? Better all around player?

-4 and -17 are why! How can you even suggest Schultz as a legit candidate for the Calder? At least with Yakupov you have a bit of an argument. Neither of them deserve consideration. Sorry. Not really.....
- MadManPaddy

Huberdeau was a -15, so by using your logic, there is no way he should have been nominated or considered either. Dumbass.