Using +/- as the lone criteria to determine a player's defensive ability is kind of like deciding on a new car because it's red.

Edit: Looking into it further, Gardiner was one of the least defensively tasked defensemen in the East last year. He had more offensive zone starts, faced a lower quality of competition and kind of damningly, had more than half his zone ends in his own end which means he started often in the other team's zone and ended the shift in his own end.
- Jsaquella

How red?

How red?
- GirouxForTheShow

Candy apple. But it's a 1985 Yugo with a bad transmission and a tape deck that eats tapes.

Candy apple. But it's a 1985 Yugo with a bad transmission and a tape deck that eats tapes.
- Jsaquella

Using +/- as the lone criteria to determine a player's defensive ability is kind of like deciding on a new car because it's red.

Edit: Looking into it further, Gardiner was one of the least defensively tasked defensemen in the East last year. He had more offensive zone starts, faced a lower quality of competition and kind of damningly, had more than half his zone ends in his own end which means he started often in the other team's zone and ended the shift in his own end.
- Jsaquella

Well I guess it doesn't matter anyways. Just cause I suggest Gardiner here doesn't mean he's even being considered by Homer. These suggestions really don't have much meaning so convincing me he's bad doesn't really have any meaning either, I guess. Homer has a long time to think hard over what direction is best (whether it's to go for current elite talent, take a gamble on possible future elite talent, or stay the course and make no changes on D), he'll decide which is best, and make a good deal for the guy he truly believes is right for us. All we can really do is sit on the sidelines and pray.

Well I guess it doesn't matter anyways. Just cause I suggest Gardiner here doesn't mean he's even being considered by Homer. These suggestions really don't have much meaning so convincing me he's bad doesn't really have any meaning either, I guess. Homer has a long time to think hard over what direction is best (whether it's to go for current elite talent, take a gamble on possible future elite talent, or stay the course and make no changes on D), he'll decide which is best, and make a good deal for the guy he truly believes is right for us. All we can really do is sit on the sidelines and pray.
- JAKEw1234

Well, actually, my point is that proclaiming one guy a future star and trashing another guy who is a similar player is kind of odd, to say the least.

It has nothing to do with Homer or the Flyers. It's comparing an apple to an apple and saying one is really an orange.

- ob18

Is that what you drove to buy the Kukkonen jersey?

Is that what you drove to buy the Kukkonen jersey?
- Jsaquella

You seem to be jealous, would you like me to ship it to you?

And it was a Chevrolet Citation

You seem to be jealous, would you like me to ship it to you?

And it was a Chevrolet Citation


- ob18

if bernier is available, it would be enticing to head into nxt yr w/ him and mason...prob our best chance to have consistent goaltending in a long time.
- isaiah520

Mason struggled in Columbus leading to them trading for a new Goalie. And then trading Mason. Bernier is very talented, yet unproven. And has played 62 NHL games. And what would it cost to aquire Bernier?

because bryz is not the answer and mason is unproven...and cap space is an asset as well. there is always the option of a guy like backstrom or Lu if he is bought out, but i look at mcphee playing the odds w/ varly, neuwirth and holtby and he has a starter and a #1 pick to show for it. had we done the same w/ bob, by bringing in a young cohort instead of panicking and signing bryz, bob may have emerged here instead of CLB.
- isaiah520

It remains to be seen if Bryzgalov can be the answer. Let's see the team play consistent defense, then we'll know. Signing the best available Goaltender isn't panicking. And who knows what Bobrovsky would have done here. Different team and different circumstances.

Well, actually, my point is that proclaiming one guy a future star and trashing another guy who is a similar player is kind of odd, to say the least.

It has nothing to do with Homer or the Flyers. It's comparing an apple to an apple and saying one is really an orange.
- Jsaquella

Oh no I don't think Gardiner is a future star, I think he is very compatible to play with Luke Schenn, and with their ages being so similar, they could down the line be a very scary first pair.

Oh no I don't think Gardiner is a future star, I think he is very compatible to play with Luke Schenn, and with their ages being so similar, they could down the line be a very scary first pair.
- JAKEw1234

Suggesting a guy can be half of a first pair is pretty high praise. Gardiner's shortcomings defensively mean that when Schenn goes for a hit, there's a lot of potential for catastrophe

i think you're overlooking what i mentioned about the caps approach and how that could have saved us the agg of the bryz situation. the contract is poison and he hasn't been worth it. after 30 yrs of mediocre or outright failure in net, having two promising young guys who already have seasoning is appealing to me.

if there are a glut of alternatives out there, it will be a buyers mkt that we can exploit. from that standpoint we'd come out of an amnesty w/ more cap space and/or more manageable term? besides, what are you hanging on to? biron-level goaltending @ almost twice the price? if it turns out that there aren't as many workable alternatives this off season, then we can live w/ bryz for another yr.
- isaiah520

Do those 30 years of mediocre or outright failure in net include Hall of Famer Bernie Parent? Or Vezina winners Ron Hextall and Pelle Lindbergh? Or the tandem of Pete Peters and Phil Myre and the 35 game unbeaten streak. Or numerous other solid Seasons put in by Cechmanek or Vanbiesbrouck.

You've made this comparison before of Biron level goaltending. It doesn't make sense because Biron did not play on this team. Put Biron on this team with the way the team defense was this past Season, and see what happens.

And Gardiner has been a healthy scratch for toronto all this season so he's worth virtually nothing for them either. Plus, they need good dmen desperately, and Mez, when healthy, has the skill set to be a good dman.
- JAKEw1234

Just because a player has been a healthy scratch, doesn't mean they're going to give him away. The cost will still be high.

Suggesting a guy can be half of a first pair is pretty high praise. Gardiner's shortcomings defensively mean that when Schenn goes for a hit, there's a lot of potential for catastrophe
- Jsaquella

But Gardiner is still about 5 years away from his prime. You don't think in 5 years his positional play can be worked on?

Just because a player has been a healthy scratch, doesn't mean they're going to give him away. The cost will still be high.
- MJL

Well they hate him there, the coaches, the fans, really everyone. I don't see his price being that high. Honestly I would see Matt Read as being an over payment.

Well they hate him there, the coaches, the fans, really everyone. I don't see his price being that high. Honestly I would see Matt Read as being an over payment.
- JAKEw1234

The price will be high. You keep mentioning that the fans hate him. That couldn't be more irrelevant. Did you see the weak turnover Gardiner made early in the game last night? If he makes plays like that and I was the Coach. I'd hate him also.

Why on Earth would you piss away a CBO on Meszaros with one year left on his deal?
- Jsaquella

because he's the worst barry ashbee winner ever

Too soon to think about the 2014 draft?

After 1

Barrie - 0
London - 0

Stolarz with 8 saves

For all those people saying offer sheet Pietrangelo (Not in this thread IK) id like to tell you this quote:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

Offer sheeting Pietra will end the same way as weber
- FrmRusiaWifGlov

I still say offer sheet Pitrangelo to a max contract, which STL will match. Then tie their hands and offer sheet Shattenkirk.

Homer has done stranger things.
/sarcasm

Montreal and Ottawa going at it. Love playoff hockey.

- Don'tForgetTocchet

injuries suck. flyers gotta be the most unlucky team in the league in that regard, long term (at least it feels that way)

flip-side of the above comment: the lack of any real trade value means they'd be wiser to just see what they can get out of him this year. i mean, there's not a whole hell of a lot that interests me out there on the ufa market

because he's the worst barry ashbee winner ever
- Don'tForgetTocchet

If we bought out Mez then we'd be stuck with Bryz for 7 more years... gotta weigh your priorities.

The price will be high. You keep mentioning that the fans hate him. That couldn't be more irrelevant. Did you see the weak turnover Gardiner made early in the game last night? If he makes plays like that and I was the Coach. I'd hate him also.
- MJL

How high can the price be for a player they've all but given up on? If they cared about his development anymore he'd be in the AHL not a healthy scratch for the whole season.