This is the same foolish plan B thoughts as the past off season. Tell me what Boston's plan B is if Chara get's hurt? How about LA's plan B if Doughty get's hurt? Or Nashville's plan B is Weber get's hurt? There is no plan B to replace players like Pronger!
- MJL

If only GM's had hindsight as foresight. Pathetic.

/sarcasm

i've already made and won this so-called argument w/ the posts, facts and logic to back it up. not gonna waste time w/ the site j**koff who's life ambition is to claim victory citing old posts that were an ancient 28 days old w/ conditions unchanged.

#dontwastetimewithaholes
- isaiah520

Enjoy your ban, self-declared argument winner.

I just think they really need to get it out of their head that they can win, or build a team with their pocket books. The salary cap, and thus more focused emphasis on drafting eliminated that.

Holmgren/Snider have made some stupid moves with the bad contracts. That needs to end and there are no excuses for giving lengthy or really overpaid contracts to marginal players. I have faith in him, and we will see what he does this summer. What pissed me off, is like what you say he had the ability with Richards/Carter to try and at least help on the D core, knowing the situations/age of Pronger and Timonen. He didnt do it. When he had the chance to not even reach by taking Hamilton over Coots, he ignored the need for all round star level d-men on defense yet again choosing to focus on offense.

D-men are a premium in this league, and they cost more than forwards.

The issue now to me is, its even harder to bring in established all round d-men. Teams dont trade these guys. Or you will pay absolutely out of your nose and ass to get them. Holmgren is limited to a degree, and that I can understand. The Flyers dont need anymore mediocrity on defense. They need the star power, which is damn hard to get unless its via draft.


Guys like Buff for example, teams would be willing to trade them for a reason. They have too many question marks in their game.

Edit: Holmgren and the organization put themselves in a poop hole imo. Now lets see how they get out of it. The days of buying a team, or filling crucial needs with FA are dead.
- flyer_nutter

But it's a double-edged sword, them reaching for Coots instead of Hamilton. If we had reached out to Boston instead of columbus, Jake Voracek wouldn't be a Flyer. On the same note, if Homer decides he doesn want Hamilton, he wouldn't have to give very many assets on top of Coots to get him. I really like the carter and richards trade. They weren't the guys to lead us to the cup, and we got alot more value in return for them... Do you think this offseason, value wise, the Blue jackets would be able to get Coots and Jake for Jeff Carter? No way. Voracek is almost equal to Carter now.

are the WCs online? sorry if laught

Enjoy your ban, self-declared argument winner.
- Flyskippy

didn't claim to win them all or even most...prefer to have a pleasant exchange

This is the same foolish plan B thoughts as the past off season. Tell me what Boston's plan B is if Chara get's hurt? How about LA's plan B if Doughty get's hurt? Or Nashville's plan B is Weber get's hurt? There is no plan B to replace players like Pronger!
- MJL

Luckily Pronger is such a natural leader (as opposed to doughty who I don't think has that leadership ability yet, it's ok though he's only 23). His leadership means that at this point, even though he won't play again, and even though another player with his defensive ability on top natural meanness in his play doesn't exist to the same tier he played on, he can help us make another one. Pronger can mentor and teach. He can, down the line, turn Luke Schenn into that extremely intimidating, mean defender, because I know Luke Schenn already has the potential to play on or close to the same tier Pronger played on defensively. If Pronger took our young DFD (Schenn, Lauridsen) under his wing, I know we could have a couple very scary D men in the making. Lauridsen has already shown he can play mean in a few games this season. Losing Pronger wasn't a total loss, I guess you can say. Who knows if we even would've traded for Schenn if Pronger had not gotten hurt. As one door closes, another always opens.

didn't claim to win them all or even most...prefer to have a pleasant exchange
- isaiah520

Understood, but I believe that we all need to understand that there will be folks that vehemently disagree and that everyone's opinions are just as valid as our own. That said, evaluations are not merely opinions but something more and thus are more subject to criticism than arbitrary opinions (such as thinking red is a better color than green, etc.) because there is evidence available to adjudge a player singularly and against others. There is no evidence supporting one color above another, to use my prior example. So... Relax. MJL rubs people the wrong way. I get that - and have been irked myself, as stated previously here. A lot of people who accuse him of being unable to allow others to differ on their own stances are often just like the attributes they claim of him.

Ah, the Internet...

Luckily Pronger is such a natural leader (as opposed to doughty who I don't think has that leadership ability yet, it's ok though he's only 23). His leadership means that at this point, even though he won't play again, and even though another player with his defensive ability on top natural meanness in his play doesn't exist to the same tier he played on, he can help us make another one. Pronger can mentor and teach. He can, down the line, turn Luke Schenn into that extremely intimidating, mean defender, because I know Luke Schenn already has the potential to play on or close to the same tier Pronger played on defensively. If Pronger took our young DFD (Schenn, Lauridsen) under his wing, I know we could have a couple very scary D men in the making. Lauridsen has already shown he can play mean in a few games this season. Losing Pronger wasn't a total loss, I guess you can say. Who knows if we even would've traded for Schenn if Pronger had not gotten hurt. As one door closes, another always opens.
- JAKEw1234

Totally agree with when one door closes, another always opens. And applaud the optimism.

Understood, but I believe that we all need to understand that there will be folks that vehemently disagree and that everyone's opinions are just as valid as our own. That said, evaluations are not merely opinions but something more and thus are more subject to criticism than arbitrary opinions (such as thinking red is a better color than green, etc.) because there is evidence available to adjudge a player singularly and against others. There is no evidence supporting one color above another, to use my prior example. So... Relax. MJL rubs people the wrong way. I get that - and have been irked myself, as stated previously here. A lot of people who accuse him of being unable to allow others to differ on their own stances are often just like the attributes they claim of him.

Ah, the Internet...
- Flyskippy

Enjoy your ban, self-declared argument winner.
- Flyskippy

I see nothing has changed since my exile.

I just think they really need to get it out of their head that they can win, or build a team with their pocket books. The salary cap, and thus more focused emphasis on drafting eliminated that.

Holmgren/Snider have made some stupid moves with the bad contracts. That needs to end and there are no excuses for giving lengthy or really overpaid contracts to marginal players. I have faith in him, and we will see what he does this summer. What pissed me off, is like what you say he had the ability with Richards/Carter to try and at least help on the D core, knowing the situations/age of Pronger and Timonen. He didnt do it. When he had the chance to not even reach by taking Hamilton over Coots, he ignored the need for all round star level d-men on defense yet again choosing to focus on offense.

D-men are a premium in this league, and they cost more than forwards.

The issue now to me is, its even harder to bring in established all round d-men. Teams dont trade these guys. Or you will pay absolutely out of your nose and ass to get them. Holmgren is limited to a degree, and that I can understand. The Flyers dont need anymore mediocrity on defense. They need the star power, which is damn hard to get unless its via draft.


Guys like Buff for example, teams would be willing to trade them for a reason. They have too many question marks in their game.

Edit: Holmgren and the organization put themselves in a poop hole imo. Now lets see how they get out of it. The days of buying a team, or filling crucial needs with FA are dead.
- flyer_nutter

Hexy will fix everything

But it's a double-edged sword, them reaching for Coots instead of Hamilton. If we had reached out to Boston instead of columbus, Jake Voracek wouldn't be a Flyer. On the same note, if Homer decides he doesn want Hamilton, he wouldn't have to give very many assets on top of Coots to get him. I really like the carter and richards trade. They weren't the guys to lead us to the cup, and we got alot more value in return for them... Do you think this offseason, value wise, the Blue jackets would be able to get Coots and Jake for Jeff Carter? No way. Voracek is almost equal to Carter now.
- JAKEw1234

That could be debated since they did lead us to a cup, and then were part of a team winning the cup. Maybe not as leadership, but its debaitable... But I agree the sum of the parts we got were a win. In hindsight though would you have taken Hamiton over Couturier right now?

Being in a little better shape next year would also help him. He was not in game shape when the season started, suffered the broken foot and then was really behind the eight ball to catch up conditioning-wise until late in the season.
- bmeltzer

I ran for 3 miles and rode my bike to the beach about 5 miles, I wonder if these millionaires really care about being in shape?

I see nothing has changed since my exile.
- youarewrong

Correct. The site still needs a sarcasm smiley.

"Get Bigger"

Ugh.
- bradleyc4

It's the flavor of the year!

We have marginal cap space and an obvious problem when it comes to our D - we need a #1. That said, I do not know much about how this stuff works, so I will throw out an idea.

Could we trade up to pick first? I know it would cost us an arm and a leg, but trading up would give us the d man we so desperately need. At the same time we could ship off some cap. This is given that the team with the #1 wants to trade, but still. Getting that D through trade will also be expensive.

Understood, but I believe that we all need to understand that there will be folks that vehemently disagree and that everyone's opinions are just as valid as our own. That said, evaluations are not merely opinions but something more and thus are more subject to criticism than arbitrary opinions (such as thinking red is a better color than green, etc.) because there is evidence available to adjudge a player singularly and against others. There is no evidence supporting one color above another, to use my prior example. So... Relax. MJL rubs people the wrong way. I get that - and have been irked myself, as stated previously here. A lot of people who accuse him of being unable to allow others to differ on their own stances are often just like the attributes they claim of him.

Ah, the Internet...
- Flyskippy

Red is the color of passion, green is the color of envy. The defense rests.

We have marginal cap space and an obvious problem when it comes to our D - we need a #1. That said, I do not know much about how this stuff works, so I will throw out an idea.

Could we trade up to pick first? I know it would cost us an arm and a leg, but trading up would give us the d man we so desperately need. At the same time we could ship off some cap. This is given that the team with the #1 wants to trade, but still. Getting that D through trade will also be expensive.
- Bearintheforest

how about the Flyers #1 and Cooty for the Panthers #1?

i've already made and won this so-called argument w/ the posts, facts and logic to back it up. not gonna waste time w/ the site j**koff who's life ambition is to claim victory citing old posts that were an ancient 28 days old w/ conditions unchanged.

#dontwastetimewithaholes
- isaiah520

your logic is wrong and the fact is that your logic isnt logical. im just stating the facts. maybe you logic could, in fact, be logical when using facts to make your points more logical, but in fact, there is no logic to your facts.

We have marginal cap space and an obvious problem when it comes to our D - we need a #1. That said, I do not know much about how this stuff works, so I will throw out an idea.

Could we trade up to pick first? I know it would cost us an arm and a leg, but trading up would give us the d man we so desperately need. At the same time we could ship off some cap. This is given that the team with the #1 wants to trade, but still. Getting that D through trade will also be expensive.
- Bearintheforest

I think trading to get the 1st would cost more then trading for Shattenkirk or Weber. It seems Jones is meant to be in Colorado. That is where his Dad played Basketball, That is where his Dad approached J.Sakic asking advise about how to support his son in hockey. It is just meant to be.

I think trading to get the 1st would cost more then trading for Shattenkirk or Weber. It seems Jones is meant to be in Colorado. That is where his Dad played Basketball, That is where his Dad approached J.Sakic asking advise about how to support his son in hockey. It is just meant to be.
- youarewrong

aka "rigged"

I think trading to get the 1st would cost more then trading for Shattenkirk or Weber. It seems Jones is meant to be in Colorado. That is where his Dad played Basketball, That is where his Dad approached J.Sakic asking advise about how to support his son in hockey. It is just meant to be.
- youarewrong

get the #2 pick and draft Nate then trade B Schenn for a D man

how about the Flyers #1 and Cooty for the Panthers #1?
- vejim

Won't get it done IMO

Won't get it done IMO
- Just5

Cooty and Hubey...wow

your logic is wrong and the fact is that your logic isnt logical. im just stating the facts. maybe you logic could, in fact, be logical when using facts to make your points more logical, but in fact, there is no logic to your facts.
- jmatchett383

Facts dont have to be logical, and logical is not always facts.

My dog has an entire yard to poop in, yet he still poops on the pavement. That is fact, and illogical.