WOULD YOU LET THAT DAMN TAVARES KID DEVELOP!? YOU'RE RUINING HIM!

Edit: Over the past decade, the Islanders have had a top-5 pick 4 times.

- jmatchett383

And we barely made the playoffs. That's really all that needs to be said.

Our opponent (the Penguins) had 5 top 5 picks from 02 to 06. They lost the cup 2 years later and won it the next season.

Oh so your rules on what we can and can't use in our discussion changed now. We can go deeper into the draft? Are you really sure you want to do that?

Hamonic played in the AHL before coming to the NHL. And if you look at a good team, Hamonic is not coming up after 18 games.
- kencan98

Another example of a player who essentially made the jump since 18 games is so fractional. However, I'll stick to my original point which you still have failed to dispute with any effectiveness.
TOP FIVE PICKS DO NOT TYPICALLY NEED SEASONING IN THE AHL.
The conversation revolved around Nino and Strome. I'd still go as far as to say that had Nino not been used 4 minutes a night in a defensive role, he likely would have had a far better rookie season. Strome was capable of playing in the NHL last year, and has now completed his Junior career. He won't need to develop in the AHL because he's ready NOW.

Hamonic spent a whopping 18 games in the A. He's awful for a 22 year old
- keaner17

I wouldn't say he awful however he does make mistakes. He should have spent a year in the bridge though. That said he does have a big heart and you can't teach that.

so we are a laughing stock of the leauge beacause we dont understand KEncan on Hockeybuzz?? Wow!!!
- kasperrko

That was actually discussed on Coach's Corner, complete with full kencan quotes and pictures of Islanders' fans bowing down to a shrine of him.

so we are a laughing stock of the leauge beacause we dont understand KEncan on Hockeybuzz?? Wow!!!
- kasperrko

No. The Isles and their fans are the laughing stock of the league (probably of all of pro sports) because of how you try to justify the moves the management makes and how you want to continue to do the things that have never worked.

Can someone post the starting lineup for Pitts if Crosby is playing
- 2raven2

Per NBC Sports
Malkin Cosby Iginla
Crosby Crosby Crosby
Crosby Crosby Crosby
Malkin Crosby Malkin

As a Flyers fan, I don't particularly like either one of you, but I can at least be objective!

I think the Isles will give Pitts more trouble than some are thinking, but in the end, the Pens are just a better team. Pens in 5, with at least 1 or 2 games going into OT.

And we barely made the playoffs. That's really all that needs to be said.

Our opponent (the Penguins) had 5 top 5 picks from 02 to 06. They lost the cup 2 years later and won it the next season.
- kencan98

They had 2 1sts overall and 2 2nds. The Islanders have had 1 1st, and he's been every bit as good as advertised.

But yes, you're right. The fact that every top-5 pick the Islanders make doesn't turn into a superstar is a good enough reason to just disband the team, they don't deserve to exist. If only they were the Blue Jackets, or the Flames, or the Panthers, or the Oilers (who, by the way, have been drafting superstar after superstar the past 6 or so years and suck).

seriously these threads are making me ill... i'll see you after the season is over...if you want to talk about our team hit me up on twitter

@dandannoodles78

I never said the Islanders are bad. I actually have nothing against the team at all. I do think they overachieved this season which is not a bad thing but the month of April is NOT the complete story of the team.

I don't really have a problem with Wang as much as some around here might think. He kept the team in NY and yes, he may not spend like some want him to but at least we have a team to root for still.

My problem with the Islanders, some of their fans, and their management is that they ALWAYS make the wrong move. All I want them to do is to do what every other team in the league would do and I only ask for it one time. For once in the past decade +, just use the 5 pick to pick a #5 player. For once just let a prospect develop so that we actually turn potential into talent.

Some here (and in the Isles fan base as a whole) are still sold the Isles bill of goods. Every prospect is "the guy we wanted" even though no one on earth ever heard of them before. Every prospect is "NHL ready" the day after the draft. And every prospect is a first line player or the next Lidstrom.

That's my problem and it always has been.

Then when I point out that every other team does it differently than we do, give examples and back up my arguments with facts, people turn to insults because their points are proven wrong.

THIS is what makes us the laughing stock of the league.
- kencan98

Man, if you never heard of Tavares, Niederreiter, Strome and Reinhart before the drafts, then I don't know what to say...you just weren't paying any attention. You can debate whether they were the right picks at the time the Isles selected (except for JT...no one should question that one), but Bailey is the only first selection they made from 08 on that was really way off the board and someone that the average fan probably wouldn't have known much about...and I hope we can agree that the guy we all wanted that year, Filatov, would have been the wrong choice.

I think everyone knows the Isles made big mistakes with Bailey and Nino. Saying that on this board isn't really news...we've beat that topic into the ground, dug it up, kicked it some more, set it on fire, and scattered the ashes. What's wrong with the way they've developed Strome? He and Sheifele are the only players picked in the top 10 that year that haven't played (regularly) in the NHL yet. You should be happy about that. It's exactly what you're asking for. Reinhart is developing in juniors. Donovan spent another year in the AHL and led all defensemen in scoring there. They kept Nelson down there...even with Nino they made the right call sending him down after making the bad decision to have him in the NHL last season. At least they learned a lesson from their mistakes.

The problem is you're making arguments that are coming about a season too late and speaking in absolutes without at least acknowledging some of the lessons learned since 2008. Heck, I'm not even a fan of Wang and Snow, but have to defend them against some of your criticisms...because this season, they did the right thing finally with their young talent...they let them develop.

Another example of a player who essentially made the jump since 18 games is so fractional. However, I'll stick to my original point which you still have failed to dispute with any effectiveness.
TOP FIVE PICKS DO NOT TYPICALLY NEED SEASONING IN THE AHL.
The conversation revolved around Nino and Strome. I'd still go as far as to say that had Nino not been used 4 minutes a night in a defensive role, he likely would have had a far better rookie season. Strome was capable of playing in the NHL last year, and has now completed his Junior career. He won't need to develop in the AHL because he's ready NOW.
- keaner17

wow. Can you not read what you are typing? He was used 4 minutes a night and thrown on a fourth line BECAUSE HE WAS RUSHED INTO THE LEAGUE!

My point is that they need to stop doing that.

Your point is they need to continue to do it because "top 5 picks don't need development" even though almost all of them do (as I pointed out over and over again in the other blog).

No. The Isles and their fans are the laughing stock of the league (probably of all of pro sports) because of how you try to justify the moves the management makes and how you want to continue to do the things that have never worked.
- kencan98

Yep...it's Garth's fault Milbury drafted Robert Nilson. It's also Garth's fault Neil Smith drafted Okposo (who looks pretty good right now). Garth shouldn't have traded Luongo, Bertuzzi, Connnolly, McCabe. What was he thinking?

We can only judge the state of THIS franchise now based on the current GM. So it's too early to talk about ruining anyone. I agree that I never liked the Bailey pick. But after that, it's too early to say anyone has been handled poorly. I doubt you'll come around to admit you're wrong when Strome is lighting the lamp here.

Yet if we get swept by Pittsburgh (a very possible scenario), you'll be hear acting as though no one here considered it a possibility.

They had 2 1sts overall and 2 2nds. The Islanders have had 1 1st, and he's been every bit as good as advertised.

But yes, you're right. The fact that every top-5 pick the Islanders make doesn't turn into a superstar is a good enough reason to just disband the team, they don't deserve to exist. If only they were the Blue Jackets, or the Flames, or the Panthers, or the Oilers (who, by the way, have been drafting superstar after superstar the past 6 or so years and suck).
- jmatchett383

It's not a reason to disband the team but it is a reason to change drafting and development strategy. If you are picking in the top 10 every year and barely making the playoffs something is wrong.

Your point is they need to continue to do it because "top 5 picks don't need development" even though almost all of them do (as I pointed out over and over again in the other blog).
- kencan98

If the past 5 years, please tell me the % of top 5 picks who are rushed and are tainted because of it. Really, please use stats to back up your argument. I'm seriously willing to have a reasonable debate with you, but I want to see you use facts to back up your points.

Edit: Here, I'll post them for you:
2008: Stamoks, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Schenn (Bogosian back to juniors)
2009: Tavares, Hedman, Duchesne, Kane (B. Schenn returned to juniors)
2010: Hall, Seguin, (Niederreiter, Johansson, Gudbranson returned to juniors)
2011: RNH, Landeskog, Larsson (Huberdeau and Strome to juniors)
2012: Yakupov, Galchenyuk (Reilly and Reinhart to juniors, Murray broken leg).

I'll give you L. Schenn and Larsson. Which of the others that were rushed into the NHL were worse off for it?

No. The Isles and their fans are the laughing stock of the league (probably of all of pro sports) because of how you try to justify the moves the management makes and how you want to continue to do the things that have never worked.
- kencan98

Listen seriously you dont know who I am. I have ripped this team for years buddy. I hate Snow I hate Wang I even hate Cappy. I feel they have no NHL intellect at all but you know what whether you want to see it or beleive it they got a team that they put together in the playoffs and that has to count for something. If it was a full season would the Isles be in the playoffs?? Like I said numerous times probably not, but it is not a full season and the kids are in the playoffs. Be happy to be here no one is predicitng a cup for us not even a fan here thinks that. So who cares about the holes on the team. Every team has holes even the Pens. Ask there fans. There defense is not the greatest they know that and how do I know that cause as people here know I am a Penguins fan at heart and I have seen basically all there games this year!!

That was actually discussed on Coach's Corner, complete with full kencan quotes and pictures of Islanders' fans bowing down to a shrine of him.
- jmatchett383

Only Kencan was there

Listen seriously you dont know who I am. I have ripped this team for years buddy. I hate Snow I hate Wang I even hate Cappy. I feel they have no NHL intellect at all but you know what whether you want to see it or beleive it they got a team that they put together in the playoffs and that has to count for something. If it was a full season would the Isles be in the playoffs?? Like I said numerous times probably not, but it is not a full season and the kids are in the playoffs. Be happy to be here no one is predicitng a cup for us not even a fan here thinks that. So who cares about the holes on the team. Every team has holes even the Pens. Ask there fans. There defense is not the greatest they know that and how do I know that cause as people here know I am a Penguins fan at heart and I have seen basically all there games this year!!
- kasperrko

its no use..just ignore him do not respond to him...

Man, if you never heard of Tavares, Niederreiter, Strome and Reinhart before the drafts, then I don't know what to say...you just weren't paying any attention. You can debate whether they were the right picks at the time the Isles selected (except for JT...no one should question that one), but Bailey is the only first selection they made from 08 on that was really way off the board and someone that the average fan probably wouldn't have known much about...and I hope we can agree that the guy we all wanted that year, Filatov, would have been the wrong choice.
- UIF

I'm not saying that no one ever heard of them in a literal sense. What I'm saying is that they were not players that were likely to be drafted in their spot. But they were and again, it was the Islanders that did it.

Schenn would have been the right choice in 08. He was ranked #3 in N.A. and available at 5. Whether he works out or not, we have no idea at that point. But there's a reason he's ranked number 3 and if he's available at 5, the team needs to take him.

Same thing goes with the '10 draft.

I think everyone knows the Isles made big mistakes with Bailey and Nino. Saying that on this board isn't really news...we've beat that topic into the ground, dug it up, kicked it some more, set it on fire, and scattered the ashes. What's wrong with the way they've developed Strome? He and Sheifele are the only players picked in the top 10 that year that haven't played (regularly) in the NHL yet. You should be happy about that. It's exactly what you're asking for. Reinhart is developing in juniors. Donovan spent another year in the AHL and led all defensemen in scoring there. They kept Nelson down there...even with Nino they made the right call sending him down after making the bad decision to have him in the NHL last season. At least they learned a lesson from their mistakes.
- UIF

I don't think everyone here does understand the mistakes made with Bailey and Nino. Actually, quite the opposite. Most people around here defend Nino and that is a big part of the discussion me and that other guy were having.

There is no problem with Stromes development right now. And that brings back the Boyes discussion. My point is and has always been, learn from the mistakes which is what you said. Don't bring Strome up next year. Learn from the mistakes.

The problem is you're making arguments that are coming about a season too late and speaking in absolutes without at least acknowledging some of the lessons learned since 2008. Heck, I'm not even a fan of Wang and Snow, but have to defend them against some of your criticisms...because this season, they did the right thing finally with their young talent...they let them develop.
- UIF

No. My problem is with fans that want to repeat the mistakes that hopefully management learned from. My criticisms about the current development of our prospects have nothing to do with Snow. They have to do with the fans that are suggesting we make the same mistakes we've made in the past.

wow. Can you not read what you are typing? He was used 4 minutes a night and thrown on a fourth line BECAUSE HE WAS RUSHED INTO THE LEAGUE!

My point is that they need to stop doing that.

Your point is they need to continue to do it because "top 5 picks don't need development" even though almost all of them do (as I pointed out over and over again in the other blog).
- kencan98

WRONG. I said they don't typically need development in the AHL. Once their junior careers are over, they are NHL ready.
Nino (IMO) was a bit of a reach where he was drafted so I could have accepted him getting sometime in the A, but I would also say that if JT himself was put on a line with Pandolfo and Reasoner for a year, people would have been calling him a bust by years end.
You don't take offensive players fresh out of juniors and pair them with hasbeens in a defensive role for 4 minutes a night. It kills their confidence and does nothing but put them in a position to struggle.

That said, Stome is a much better prospect than Nino. Talentwise, they aren't even close.

If the past 5 years, please tell me the % of top 5 picks who are rushed and are tainted because of it. Really, please use stats to back up your argument. I'm seriously willing to have a reasonable debate with you, but I want to see you use facts to back up your points.

Edit: Here, I'll post them for you:
- jmatchett383

That's not a smart question and it's impossible to answer because the Islanders only had 1 top 5 pick that they actually used since 2006. Top 10 picks, all of them besides JT. They were all rushed and none of them lived up to their potential. My argument is that with the prospects we have now we should not make that same mistake.

I wouldn't say he awful however he does make mistakes. He should have spent a year in the bridge though. That said he does have a big heart and you can't teach that.
- 2raven2

post was written with heaps of sarcassam

WRONG. I said they don't typically need development in the AHL. Once their junior careers are over, they are NHL ready.
Nino (IMO) was a bit of a reach where he was drafted so I could have accepted him getting sometime in the A, but I would also say that if JT himself was put on a line with Pandolfo and Reasoner for a year, people would have been calling him a bust by years end.
You don't take offensive players fresh out of juniors and pair them with hasbeens in a defensive role for 4 minutes a night. It kills their confidence and does nothing but put them in a position to struggle.

That said, Stome is a much better prospect than Nino. Talentwise, they aren't even close.
- keaner17

And that's why you don't rush prospects. And that's why you keep a guy like Boyes and let Strome develop for another year in the AHL. And that's why Nino is done here.

Thanks for proving my point (again).

No. The Isles and their fans are the laughing stock of the league (probably of all of pro sports) because of how you try to justify the moves the management makes and how you want to continue to do the things that have never worked.
- kencan98

Pretty much NONE of us don't question management and their moves or non moves. That's what you don't understand for some unknown reason? You are replying to a post from one of Snow's biggest critics and you have zero concept of that. That's what your PROBLEM is.

.

There is no problem with Stromes development right now. And that brings back the Boyes discussion. My point is and has always been, learn from the mistakes which is what you said. Don't bring Strome up next year. Learn from the mistakes.

No. My problem is with fans that want to repeat the mistakes that hopefully management learned from. My criticisms about the current development of our prospects have nothing to do with Snow. They have to do with the fans that are suggesting we make the same mistakes we've made in the past.
- kencan98

And now we're full circle (again). This is the point. You can't compare mistakes with guys like Robert Nilson, Josh Bailey or even Nino with Strome because he's a much better player than any of them. Strome is developed. He was allowed to complete his junior career where he DOMINATED and is now ready to make the jump to the NHL. Lots of scouts thought he could have done it last year. We waited, and rightfully so, but there's no need to bury him in the AHL next year. His skillset is beyond that.

Every fan base overvalues their prospects. We are the only ones who are always wrong. And yes, you'll come back with "Well what about JT" and you'd be right. He is the only one. THE ONLY ONE.

Every other team in the league can come out every once in a while and say that the expectations were either close or right on. We can't.

And to bring it back to my original point, 6 top 10 picks since 2006 and barely making the playoffs is NOT acceptable. And to think that it took a historic run to get there is even worse.
- kencan98

can you explain how, and more importantly who is responsible for the islanders getting into the playoffs?