I thought I was clear. They either can't play physically (Nuge) or can't play defense. You win in this league with 200 foot players, not 90 foot players. You guys have one 200 foot star in Hall. I like Horcoff, Jones and MPS as complementary pieces. The rest of the roster has holes. You don't win with guys like Eberle and Yakupov. Look at the top teams, they have elite/good players that play 200 feet. The Hawks, Kings, Bruins and Pens are all great examples of this. The Pens are cup favorites because they have the talent AND play 200 feet now. The Kings won doing this with way less offensive talent than most other contenders. The Oilers brass and fans haven't learned this yet. I think MacT will make the necessary changes finally. A selke type guy should know how important a 200 foot game is to success.
- DoubleDionn

The Hawks, Kings, Bruins, Pens all won with less Offensive talent????

Brown, Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Doughty, Williams, Penner??? Ya...not offense there...

Gags, N. Schultz 1st 2013, 3rd 2013, for Hanzal and Yandle.
- BigDre

I looove the idea of Yandle and Hanzal coming here for that offer. Except for the first round pick. I think we should keep that. However that'd be the key in this situation to get them here.

You just went on a tangent.

The conversation was about Nuge, Ebs and Yakupov being ready, not what it takes to win. Our spot in the standings should indicate we've got a long way to go. I wonder if it has anything to do with Nuge, Ebs and Yaks being 20, 22 and 20 respectively. Nuge looks like he can become a Datsyuk-lite (emphasis on the "lite"). In fact, he's looked better and better defensively. What they are not yet is not an argument for having rushed them, is it?
- Morris

Isn't being ready having what it takes to win? If a player hasn't learned the defensive side of the game, they aren't ready. It's really that simple. Some players will never be great defensive guys because they lack size and foot speed (Eberle), but they do need to be at least somewhat accountable. If you rush guys who aren't physically mature (Nuge) they get hurt and become timid players. It's very different rushing a guy like Hall or Barkov than other players with huge, noticeable flaws.

I'll stake every penny I ever make the flames will win a cup again before the Oilers ever do.
- daveydave

Flames fans have being blowing smoke since they got a team. They won a singular cup because Edmonton screwed up. The franchise has a long history of being also rans so go ahead. Stake your penny.

It's easy to make stupid statements on the Internet but yours is ridiculous.

So it's ok to throw Barkov right into top six minutes, but it was a mistake to do the same with Nuge, Hall and Yak.
- Reveen

No smart guy. The smart thing to do would be to let the guy develop properly in a lesser league. Whether that is in Finland or the AHL or CHL etc. If, and that is a big if, he plays his way onto the team then give him 3rd line minutes with some time on the PP so he doesn't lose confidence if he stops scoring. The thing that hurt guys like PRV and RNH etc. is that they were thrown to the wolves. 18 year old players need to play sheltered minutes. Again, just my opinion but I don't agree with throwing any 18 year old into the NHL right after being drafted.

Believe me, I've seen enough CGY prospects careers destroyed because they were thrown onto the 4th line when they were drafted as pint producers.

The Hawks, Kings, Bruins, Pens all won with less Offensive talent????

Brown, Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Doughty, Williams, Penner??? Ya...not offense there...
- Iggysbff

You misread, I said the Kings won with less offensive talent. I never said anything about the other teams beyond them playing a 200 foot game. They finished 29th in the league in scoring. Perhaps talent was the wrong word, but they definitely had scoring issues. It's why they traded for Carter. You'll likely notice all of those guys with the exception of Penner are 200 foot players, which was my point.

Isn't being ready having what it takes to win? If a player hasn't learned the defensive side of the game, they aren't ready. It's really that simple. Some players will never be great defensive guys because they lack size and foot speed (Eberle), but they do need to be at least somewhat accountable. If you rush guys who aren't physically mature (Nuge) they get hurt and become timid players. It's very different rushing a guy like Hall or Barkov than other players with huge, noticeable flaws.
- DoubleDionn

So are you arguing that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins shouldn't have debuted in the NHL until the year he could lead the Oilers to victory?

So are you arguing that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins shouldn't have debuted in the NHL until the year he could lead the Oilers to victory?
- Morris

No, until he was physically mature enough not to be thoroughly man-handled. This roster as is will never be a winning one, so he never would have played. Hopefully MacT is as big of a moron as the disaster that was Lowebellini. I kind of doubt it though, the guy may be an bumhole, but he did play a well-rounded game. Hall for instance contributed to winning the moment he stepped on the ice. He just plays with a lot of guys who don't.

No smart guy. The smart thing to do would be to let the guy develop properly in a lesser league. Whether that is in Finland or the AHL or CHL etc. If, and that is a big if, he plays his way onto the team then give him 3rd line minutes with some time on the PP so he doesn't lose confidence if he stops scoring. The thing that hurt guys like PRV and RNH etc. is that they were thrown to the wolves. 18 year old players need to play sheltered minutes. Again, just my opinion but I don't agree with throwing any 18 year old into the NHL right after being drafted.

Believe me, I've seen enough CGY prospects careers destroyed because they were thrown onto the 4th line when they were drafted as pint producers.
- TandA4Flames

So pretty much what we did with Yakupov, but got ripperd for?

And no RNH wasn't thrown to the wolves. The kids were sheltered last year. This year Kreuger rolled lines and was forcing the kids to play a bigger role.

No, until he was physically mature enough not to be thoroughly man-handled. This roster as is will never be a winning one, so he never would have played. Hopefully MacT is as big of a moron as the disaster that was Lowebellini. I kind of doubt it though, the guy may be an bumhole, but he did play a well-rounded game. Hall for instance contributed to winning the moment he stepped on the ice. He just plays with a lot of guys who don't.
- DoubleDionn

Ya waiting til he is 23 would've been smart.

No, until he was physically mature enough not to be thoroughly man-handled. This roster as is will never be a winning one, so he never would have played. Hopefully MacT is as big of a moron as the disaster that was Lowebellini. I kind of doubt it though, the guy may be an bumhole, but he did play a well-rounded game. Hall for instance contributed to winning the moment he stepped on the ice. He just plays with a lot of guys who don't.
- DoubleDionn

I don't think that was as big a problem with Nuge as it was with the philosophy of playing him so much. Tons of slight guys get by fine in the NHL playing 12 mins a night as rookies and 15 mins as sophmores. We didn't have the surrounding veterans to provide support. And that's on management/coaching as you say, not really on Nuge.

Ya waiting til he is 23 would've been smart.
- Lahey

Maybe it would have been. He sure hasn't helped you this year. It took Backlund until 22/23 to contribute to winning, I'm happy with the player he has developed into. We've rushed lots of guys who weren't physically ready too. Granted, they didn't have the star power that Nuge does. But guys like Boyd, Kobasew and Domenchelli are all Flames prospects that were rushed.

I don't think that was as big a problem with Nuge as it was with the philosophy of playing him so much. Tons of slight guys get by fine in the NHL playing 12 mins a night as rookies and 15 mins as sophmores. We didn't have the surrounding veterans to provide support. And that's on management/coaching as you say, not really on Nuge.
- Morris

I'm not blaming the players. It's not their fault the organization made mistakes. Any kid is going to want to play in the show if you let him. There are not many/any kids who get by fine in the NHL with Nuge's frame. Name me one?

EDIT: And don't tell me he's 6'1" 188 pounds either. No way in the world that's true. He's not the same size as Glencross.

Maybe it would have been. He sure hasn't helped you this year. It took Backlund until 22/23 to contribute to winning, I'm happy with the player he has developed into. We've rushed lots of guys who weren't physically ready too. Granted, they didn't have the star power that Nuge does. But guys like Boyd, Kobasew and Domenchelli are all Flames prospects that were rushed.
- DoubleDionn

Waiting until a #1 is 23 is a good way for him to walk away. You seriously think any top pick is going to stick around if they aren't in the NHL in year 2 after being drafted?

Maybe it would have been. He sure hasn't helped you this year. It took Backlund until 22/23 to contribute to winning, I'm happy with the player he has developed into. We've rushed lots of guys who weren't physically ready too. Granted, they didn't have the star power that Nuge does. But guys like Boyd, Kobasew and Domenchelli are all Flames prospects that were rushed.
- DoubleDionn

Sure he has. 5th in team scoring, 19 minutes a night, plus player.

How much of your team's success can be attributed to Backlund??

So pretty much what we did with Yakupov, but got ripperd for?

And no RNH wasn't thrown to the wolves. The kids were sheltered last year. This year Kreuger rolled lines and was forcing the kids to play a bigger role.
- Lahey

Sheltered, sure. But still counted on, which means pressure, to produce. You need vets, again JMO, to carry the load offensively and defensively so the kids can just go out, play and learn. Unfortunately, you guys lacked any of those kinds of vets in your top 6 and d pairings. Hemmer doesn't count because he only plays half a season.

Waiting until a #1 is 23 is a good way for him to walk away. You seriously think any top pick is going to stick around if they aren't in the NHL in year 2 after being drafted?
- Lahey

Obviously 23 is absurd. 20 is not. He should also not be playing against the second best centermen. He should be seeing sheltered minutes and PP time at this point. Shouldn't have been in the league last year.

Sure he has. 5th in team scoring, 19 minutes a night, plus player.

How much of your team's success can be attributed to Backlund??
- Morris

I'd argue Backlund has been our second best forward behind Glencross this year. He sees extremely tough minutes and has a horrible zone start percentage and is still near the lead in Corsi. It's easy to get 2nd assists. How much offence does he generate? He has 4 goals and half his points are on the PP.

Sure he has. 5th in team scoring, 19 minutes a night, plus player.

How much of your team's success can be attributed to Backlund??
- Morris

It's all relative, success that is, but Backs has been the best CGY fwd this year; best possession player.

I'm not blaming the players. It's not their fault the organization made mistakes. Any kid is going to want to play in the show if you let him. There are not many/any kids who get by fine in the NHL with Nuge's frame. Name me one?

EDIT: And don't tell me he's 6'1" 188 pounds either. No way in the world that's true. He's not the same size as Glencross.
- DoubleDionn

The whole argument is ridiculous. Nuge was very good on all aspects of defensive play this year. And he was not injured because he was rushed into the league. Injuries happen. Prior to this he has no history of problem. So explain to me why we see so many "big" players that also have injury woes over their careers? If they are so physically mature why do they get hurt? Why do some small guys never have injuries? Its a crap shoot. Mostly to do with luck.

Sheltered, sure. But still counted on, which means pressure, to produce. You need vets, again JMO, to carry the load offensively and defensively so the kids can just go out, play and learn. Unfortunately, you guys lacked any of those kinds of vets in your top 6 and d pairings. Hemmer doesn't count because he only plays half a season.
- TandA4Flames

Yak wasn't counted on at all this year. Team made that very clear to him. I don't disagree we need vets, I'm just pointing out we did shelter guys over the pass couple years. Smyth-horcoff-Hemsky got a lot of ice-time early last year. Hall/Eberle shouldn't have needed sheltering this year.

I have a hard time thinking guys that produced at the WC last year need sheltering in the NHL. Help yes, sheltering no.

Obviously 23 is absurd. 20 is not. He should also not be playing against the second best centermen. He should be seeing sheltered minutes and PP time at this point. Shouldn't have been in the league last year.
- DoubleDionn

Exactly. The way CGY is handling Baertschi this year is great I think. He's 20, came in with high expectations and didn't meet them right away. His confidence waned. He was sent back to the minors for a bit, matured and is now, since being returned with more maturity and understanding, on a 6 game point streak.

Exactly. The way CGY is handling Baertschi this year is great I think. He's 20, came in with high expectations and didn't meet them right away. His confidence waned. He was sent back to the minors for a bit, matured and is now, since being returned with more maturity and understanding, on a 6 game point streak.
- TandA4Flames

Problem is unless you are sending a kid to Juniors you don't have a lot of options with top picks. AHL usually isn't an option, it hasn't been for any of our kids post draft except this year.

I'm not blaming the players. It's not their fault the organization made mistakes. Any kid is going to want to play in the show if you let him. There are not many/any kids who get by fine in the NHL with Nuge's frame. Name me one?

EDIT: And don't tell me he's 6'1" 188 pounds either. No way in the world that's true. He's not the same size as Glencross.
- DoubleDionn

How about Brendan Gallagher? Sam Gagner? Tyler Seguin? Jonathan Huberdeau? Claude Giroux? Danny Briere? Tyler Ennis? Mike Cammalleri?

All smaller guys who got on pretty well.

Problem is unless you are sending a kid to Juniors you don't have a lot of options with top picks. AHL usually isn't an option, it hasn't been for any of our kids post draft except this year.
- Lahey

True. I realize that guys like RNH, Hall etc. had nothing more to prove at the junior level and that there is an age limit for th AHL. Tough decision. It's just too bad you guys didn't have a more solid vet presence when they were brought up. I think that is the biggest reason Feaster chose to retain guys like GlenX and Gio.