Alright, so clearly you're missing something I'm saying if you want me to continue. Those should've been enough as Corsi rating alone should've been enough to prove your team will very likely not continue this next season, but you shrug them off and seem to insist that they aren't tangible enough stats. I'll leave you in your fantasy world for now. Don't be surprised if Nonis insists that the team is good enough as it is thus enters next season with the same roster and falls out of the playoff hunt around mid-season... most likely.
- MaximumBone

I tried to tell him but he i insisted they are good

He could get more out of grinders than anyone else could. He didn't do so hot with skill players. Can't handle them the same way.
- DTF69

agreed.

he was a good coach for a long time with a very mediocre roster and his message got stale towards the end. it happens.

the oilers were well on their way to the start of a rebuild with an injured hemsky, moreau, staios etc as his core when he stepped down too.

also heard alot of good things about him teaching the kids etc while he was with the wolves as well.

I tried to tell him but he i insisted they are good
- Redmile247

Hate the Leafs as much as the next guy, but they are a good team. Whether we like/admit it or not.

Hate the Leafs as much as the next guy, but they are a good team. Whether we like/admit it or not.
- Gunslinger

well coached, hard working and physical.

i kept waiting for them to crash and burn this season and it just never happened

He does have a point though. You're going on Corsi alone and he is going on the traditional stats alone. With all due respect, but the standings and wins are the best indicator. Luck will carry you a few games, not a span of 45 different test samples.

You're shrugging off evidence to the contrary, so I suppose you both share this fantasy world. You too shouldn't be surpised if this team is in the playoffs next season. This goes both ways, and imaking or missing the playoffs have a 50-50 shot of happening. Neither is most likely.

Plus the Corsi stats are not an exact science and not everyones cup of tea.
- Gunslinger

I'm not shrugging off any evidence. I realize that their team is in the playoffs and obviously they've earned that regardless of how much of it was luck (or whatever you call it), but those results were built upon the proverbial pillars of sand.

It's not a 50-50 ratio for them to make the playoffs. I won't give you a definite number as it's just semantics, but I can assure you that the most likely result his team will endure next season- barring any significant change or upgrades- will be that of failure to make the playoffs. Again, though, I'd like to stress the "most likely" portion of that sentence.

Advanced stats are a tried and true method of determining the mot likely long-term outcome for sports teams. I'll agree that use of Corsi alone in my argument is weak, but I have no intention of explaining every little aspect of the advanced statistics I've used when I've clearly provided a link to such data. If he had any intention of taking this in with an open-mind, he'd be on that site reading up for himself, but he's not. No point teaching an unwilling student.

Also, I never said they guaranteed anything; just that they're usually right (notice my use of the word 'likely').

He does have a point though. You're going on Corsi alone and he is going on the traditional stats alone. With all due respect, but the standings and wins are the best indicator. Luck will carry you a few games, not a span of 45 different test samples.

You're shrugging off evidence to the contrary, so I suppose you both share this fantasy world. You too shouldn't be surpised if this team is in the playoffs next season. This goes both ways, and imaking or missing the playoffs have a 50-50 shot of happening. Neither is most likely.

Plus the Corsi stats are not an exact science and not everyones cup of tea.
- Gunslinger

I think it's just hard to figure out how a team that started the past couple seasons off good but then around this time starts to fall a part and spirals out of playoff contention won't do it next year ... They aren't exactly playing the best hockey lately and if not for this short season what reason do we have to believe they wouldn't have dropped off again ? Guess we wi never know , but the Corsi does point to this trend

Hate the Leafs as much as the next guy, but they are a good team. Whether we like/admit it or not.
- Gunslinger

They're definitely entertaining.

Hate the Leafs as much as the next guy, but they are a good team. Whether we like/admit it or not.
- Gunslinger

Well lets just hope if they do meet in the playoffs your boys finish them off

agreed.

he was a good coach for a long time and his message got stale towards the end. it happens.

the oilers were well on their way to the start of a rebuild with an injured hemsky, moreau, staios etc as his core when he stepped down too.

also heard alot of good things about him teaching the kids etc while he was with the wolves as well.
- hugefemale dog77

He sure did a lot better than Arniel did. All the guys last year learned like (frank) how to grind and muck and play just sound hockey like mofos. Worked wonders for Schroeder, Tanev, and a few others defensively.

But his inability to coach offence didn't work so well for Rodin, Connauton, Sweatt, or any one else who was more or less a primary offence type guy. Then again, Arniel is even worse in that department. MacT can't coach offence while Arniel coaches it out of players.

I think it's just hard to figure out how a team that started the past couple seasons off good but then around this time starts to fall a part and spirals out of playoff contention won't do it next year ... They aren't exactly playing the best hockey lately and if not for this short season what reason do we have to believe they wouldn't have dropped off again ? Guess we wi never know , but the Corsi does point to this trend
- Redmile247

Different coach, different style and system, plus its a young inexperienced team growing. Reminds me of the Sens and Habs actually. At this point last year, Toronto was 9th in the conference.

The Corsi stats are measured off shots mostly. Hardly a firm indicator. A quantity over quality, if you will.

I'm not shrugging off any evidence. I realize that their team is in the playoffs and obviously they've earned that regardless of how much of it was luck (or whatever you call it), but those results were built upon the proverbial pillars of sand.

It's not a 50-50 ratio for them to make the playoffs. I won't give you a definite number as it's just semantics, but I can assure you that the most likely result his team will endure next season- barring any significant change or upgrades- will be that of failure to make the playoffs. Again, though, I'd like to stress the "most likely" portion of that sentence.

Advanced stats are a tried and true method of determining the mot likely long-term outcome for sports teams. I'll agree that use of Corsi alone in my argument is weak, but I have no intention of explaining every little aspect of the advanced statistics I've used when I've clearly provided a link to such data. If he had any intention of taking this in with an open-mind, he'd be on that site reading up for himself, but he's not. No point teaching an unwilling student.

Also, I never said they guaranteed anything; just that they're usually right (notice my use of the word 'likely').
- MaximumBone

Again, its Corsi vs Traditional. You're favouring advanced, he is favouring traditional. No real right or wrong, but if there had to be, the standings take the edge. In my opinion at least.

Then again, Im not a fan of advanced stats either, so choosing to dismiss them is a matter of opinion and not a lack of an open mind. You're assuming if one rejects it, or doesnt take seriously, then its out of ignorance and a lack of understanding. I cant speak for him, but its not a matter of teaching but whether you believe them. I take them with a grain of salt. Its interesting, but not convincing, to me anyways.

As for what is likely to happen next year, nobody really knows, and one scenario is as likely as the other. I know I sure dont know what to expect from the Habs next year. Both have good young cores, so they can be even better next year or take a step back. It all depends on how they develop and whether experience in big games can improve them.

agreed.

he was a good coach for a long time with a very mediocre roster and his message got stale towards the end. it happens.

the oilers were well on their way to the start of a rebuild with an injured hemsky, moreau, staios etc as his core when he stepped down too.

also heard alot of good things about him teaching the kids etc while he was with the wolves as well.
- hugefemale dog77

He is a good coach.Coached some weak teams to a winning record in Edmonton. They say he struggled with offense and talent, but aside from Hemmer, he didn't have much. That bsteinley is just a tool, he has no clue.

Again, its Corsi vs Traditional. You're favouring advanced, he is favouring traditional. No real right or wrong, but if there had to be, the standings take the edge. In my opinion at least.

Then again, Im not a fan at of advanced stats either, so choosing to dismiss them is a matter of opinion and not a lack open mind. You're assuming if one rejects, or doesnt take seriously, then its out of ignorance and a lack of an open mind. I cant speak for him, but its not a matter of teaching but whether you believe them.
- Gunslinger

There's nothing to believe, though. They're cold hard stats just like any others. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put the time in to fully understand them as it requires a good deal of effort, but to insist to me that they can be categorized as something that may or not exist is ridiculous. Everything they measure (minus perhaps Qual of Comp) is as tangible as SOG or GAA.

He is a good coach.Coached some weak teams to a winning record in Edmonton. They say he struggled with offense and talent, but aside from Hemmer, he didn't have much. That bsteinley is just a tool, he has no clue.
- Jeropotato

he's an interesting fella that steinley guy. got some ideas that i just dont agree with at all. but i guess it comes down to differing opinions.

one thing i will say is; he's fukin crazy if he thinks any team the oilers had during mact's tenure was 'great'. i even struggle to call any oiler team in that time frame 'good'. that 06 team got hot at the right time and had some good pieces, but lets not forget they squeaked in at 8th. mact outcoached and trapped the poop outta his counterparts during that run..

fact is, we havent had a true contending team for 20 years...

There's nothing to believe, though. They're cold hard stats just like any others. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put the time in to fully understand them as it requires a good deal of effort, but to insist to me that they can be categorized as something that may or not exist is ridiculous. Everything they measure (minus perhaps Qual of Comp) is as tangible as SOG or GAA.
- MaximumBone

I didnt question their existence. I question their formula and what it measures and how much importance I put into them. Which isn't much. Again though, you're assuming and suggesting that anyone who doesn't put much stock into them is ignorant or dismissive. Thats not at all true, and quite ridiculous, as you put it.

You're right, there is nothing to believe. Cold hard stats say Toronto is a good team.

Thats said, hope they lose in the first round, but I wont be shocked to see them move on. As long as the Habs go deep, im happy. (frank) all the other teams.

Just because it's possible does not make it likely. I would call 4 points back even with a game in hand unlikely. Only because of how few games are left.
- Oildrum

True but the fact the last game of the season is them paying each other and if tied Toronto goes ahead in regulation wins. Also possible they could go in tied with Toronto having a game at hand.

he's an interesting fella that steinley guy. got some ideas that i just dont agree with at all. but i guess it comes down to differing opinions.

one thing i will say is; he's fukin crazy if he thinks any team the oilers had during mact's tenure was 'great'. i even struggle to call any oiler team in that time frame 'good'. that 06 team got hot at the right time and had some good pieces, but lets not forget they squeaked in at 8th.
fact is, we havent had a true contending team for 20 years...
- hugefemale dog77

And also Rollie played out of his mind till the injury

I didnt question their existence. I question their formula and what it measures and how much importance I put into them. Which isn't much. Again though, you're assuming and suggesting that anyone who doesn't put much stock into them is ignorant or dismissive. Thats not at all true, and quite ridiculous, as you put it.

You're right, there is nothing to believe. Cold hard stats say Toronto is a good team.
- Gunslinger

Alright fine then. You can "believe" what you want to. I won't try to force the issue. I'd hardly say I'm suggesting anyone is ignorant, but Systemtool most definitely seemed dismissive of them. Regardless, there's not much I can do about it.

Here's hoping the Habs go far! As coincidental as it may sound, they and the Sens (Erik (frank)ing Karlsson) are the only other Canadian teams I support. I wish your team the best of luck in the playoffs!

And also Rollie played out of his mind till the injury
- Yeti1181

yes.

rollie and pronger carried that team on their backs.

pronger was an absolute beast. they both were.

Hey clouts your boy Nino may actually be on the trading block..

double post

Guys Ive been Lahey the whole time.

You're dumb.
- Maxbone

Cloutier, i'm not sure what that says about yourself!!

Cloutier, i'm not sure what that says about yourself!!
- newmy

god...

That group of 7 on the Flames is getting it done...the Oilers failed miserably to get anything done...therefore, it's leadership.

I've said all along that IT IS SHAWN HORCOFF THAT IS THE F------NG PROBLEM!!! Put your favourite player Iggy on this team instead of Horcoff and the Oilers are competing for the cup right now.

How do so many people miss this?

Exchange Dubnyk for Kipper and you've got a potential upset cup winner.

1. get a captain
2. get a goalie
3. kiss the cup