If a team offers him 5.5 over three yrs and we offer him four over two he's gone. He will get ridiculous offers like all free agents do.
- Cptmjl

Yeah...you'd like to think that at some point, some team somewhere would learn remedial arithmetic....but the Flyers will sign him for $32M over 4 years, even if they don't need him.....sorry...ESPECIALLY if they don't need him.


...and then they'll wonder why they missed the playoffs again

getting into the playoffs is valuable, showing the players what its all about and whetting their appetite is valuable.

if i offered you a playoff berth in exchange for a 2nd round pick, you wouldnt take it?
- LetsGoIsles

This is exactly what some people don't get. Making the playoffs for the first time in six seasons is far more valuable to this team right now than another second round pick (or worse). The popular retort seems to be that "nobody can guarantee the Isles wouldn't make the playoffs without Streit", but those same people conveniently omit the fact that the team's chances of making the playoffs this season are better with Streit than without.

getting into the playoffs is valuable, showing the players what its all about and whetting their appetite is valuable.

if i offered you a playoff berth in exchange for a 2nd round pick, you wouldnt take it?
- LetsGoIsles

Exactly...or better yet. Would anyone have complained if we dealt a second round pick for a player rental to help the team? This is what playoff teams do. For all of us who complained about not dealing Streit, I'm willing to bet few would have complained if we acquired an impact player via trade too. This is what playoff teams do.

I agree with most of what you said.

But you do all of that while Boyes is on the team. You don't let him go and see if it works because if it doesn't you're screwed. At least if he's there we have a plan B.

Again, signing him for another year, bringing a prospect or two up and letting them see the first line, and trading Boyes at the deadline if things work with the prospect is the smart move.

Letting Boyes go and hoping that the prospect works without any other plan is a stupid move.

Iginla isn't signing here. No other big name player is either. So my opinion is they stick with what they got while mixing in the prospects and trade Boyes if the prospects work.
- kencan98

its your opinion so i cant say whether its right or wrong...ill just say youre very jaded and thinking of the past instead of the future.

The problem I have with that philosophy regarding the Captaincy is that I think you're undervaluing a Captain's role. The Captain is the team representative not only to the officals but to the players and the management. He's the liaison. This is why management and not the players typically elect Captain's nowadays. I don't see Streit as a strong personality. He certainly isn't outspoken. For that reason, I'm not so sure he'd be the type of guy to tell Snow when he thinks something needs to be handled differently, be it by coaching or management. The players need to feel that they have a juggernaut in that position who commands respect from everyone. It also couldn't hurt the treatment or lack of protection JT gets from the officials.
- keaner17

I'm not undervaluing the role of a captain. I'm saying that leadership doesn't come from a piece of fabric. It comes from the player. When Mark Recchi was traded to the Bruins for a cup run a few seasons ago, do you think he didn't command respect in that locker room? He didn't have a "C" on his sweater. Same for Iginla in Pitt. Think he doesn't command respect in the Pitt locker room because Sid wears the "C"?

I think most of you out there clamoring for JT to get the "C" sewn onto his sweater are working under the assumption that Mark Streit is a bad captain. I've read or heard nothing to support that conclusion. In fact, I've read the opposite. You're assuming that Streit has a "weak personality" and that he doesn't speak his mind, as if that is a requirement to be a good captain. None of us know what type of Captain Mark Streit has been. None of us are in that room. Who are any of us to say that Mark Streit doesn't have the respect of the players and management? Again, I've read or heard nothing to that effect.

This is exactly what some people don't get. Making the playoffs for the first time in six seasons is far more valuable to this team right now than another second round pick (or worse). The popular retort seems to be that "nobody can guarantee the Isles wouldn't make the playoffs without Streit", but those same people conveniently omit the fact that the team's chances of making the playoffs this season are better with Streit than without.
- Jethro09

Well...that's the point. If you're sh*t, then yes, you move him for whatever- which is why we SHOULD HAVE moved PAP last year. However, if your team is playing well, you don't disrupt that UNLESS you IMPROVE it by making the move. Any draft pick is not an improvement of the current on ice product- the only solid return for Streit, given this year's circumstances, would have been a big guy for defense in front of the net. Other than that, the best move was the one Snow made, IMO.

Yes pa is enjoying a last place finish in the west. And a nice start to the golf season.
Hockey is not just all about putting up points only.

I'm not saying he is reason why launche are missing playoffs, but last check isles are doing just fine without him.

As for blaming boyes only. Wake up. Moulson has fanned on a record amount of tap in goals in last month And even the herioc save that every ranger fan says lundquist had on moulson. Moulson flubbed it. If he got all of that. He would have had a chance. Moulson has been the biggest passenger on jt line. Not boyes.

Tavares also is streaky. Notice he has just been missing the corners on his shots.

Boyes is providing some vet leadership the isles were lacking. And he pointing up more than his fair share of points on the board.

I get it. You guys need a new person to complain about since you can't on ko, bailey, Streit, or cappy anymore.
- Spartiarti

First.. I highly doubt with the security of that contract, the youth around him & the team that has a history of winning.. PAP is crying himself to sleep.

Who is blaming Boyes only? Im just saying he sucks. "I" need a player to complain about? Really?

XxNYIxX

(frank)ing ridiculous. These defenders of Brad Boyes crack me up. What the (frank) are they defending?
- Cptmjl

I think there is only one

XxNYIxX

Know what's funny.. how at the deadline.. everyone was talking about how we needed to trade him because JT needs to be Capt & he wasnt resigning.

Now we are in a solid playoff race & we didnt trade him & the tunes have changed...

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

there are 2 ways to evaluate a trade (or non-trade)

1) the position of a GM and weighing which player/asset is overvalued/undervalued
2) after the trade is done, waiting a while and actually figuring out who got the better end of the deal...AFTER there are results to work with.


for me
1) at the deadline, assuming there was a solid deal in place, i wanted him gone (although i dont know what was offered and i assume everyone here doesnt as well)
2) its a good no trade assuming isles make the playoffs. if they dont, bad job by garth not trading him.

Enough with the Boyes crap. You guys are acting like politicians.

I never said Boyes was the best player in the world. I never said he was the best option for us. I never said he was the reason why we are where we are.

What I did say (and what I'm continuing to say) is that Boyes is the best REALISTIC option we have RIGHT NOW. And he should be kept until a prospect proves they can replace him on the top line. Either that or he should be kept until Snow gets a better replacement through UFA or a trade.

If Snow signs Iginla on July 1, say BYE to Boyes. If he trades for Kessel (like someone else suggested), BYE BOYES! I wouldn't even mind a 1 year Jagr deal to play on that line.

But to not resign him just based on the hope that a prospect can produce on that line is a mistake.
- kencan98

If you're saying someone is the best realistic option, you ARE saying they're the best option period. That's the point. Boyes isn't even the best option on this present roster right now. That's why everyone is disputing that statement. The guy has talent but is yet another in the long line of players to have come through here who can't put it together. We can't have an underachiever on our top line. Grabner, Cizikas, Joensuu, hell just about anyone on this roster would be a better option than Boyes. I don't think he's even close to being our best realistic option.

As far as Jagr, I'd love to bring that guy in here. Anyone who doubts him even at 40 years old should ask Claude Giroux just how good he is. The guy is STILL a top line player. I'd be willing to throw a ridiculous amount on a one year deal at him.

then we have a fundamental disagreement. You feel that its okay to weaken your chances at the team's first playoff appearance in six seasons in return for a fourth round pick whereas I feel that a fourth round pick is not worth stripping your team of its captain and PP QB in the middle of its first playoff run in six seasons.

We also fundamentally disagree on Streit's abilities. Yes, Vis is a better player. But why do we have to let Streit go just because we signed Vis? Why can't the team keep both? Also, you act as if Streit is Jurcina out there. He's not as bad as you and others make him out to be. he's an above-average offensive d-man, perfectly capable of playing third pair minutes defensively and QBing the first PP unit.

Just like you want to say people can't assume the team wouldn't make the playoffs without Streit, you can't assume that Streit isn't going to be brough back. Just because he's a UFA doesn't mean the team can't bring him back.
- Jethro09

I never said we couldn't keep both... but one singed by the deadline & the other didn't... If Vis hadn't signed & Streit did.. I would have wanted Vis traded.

third pair mins & he wants 5.5 a year???

I never said they couldn't bring him back or that i didn't want him resigned... But he wasn't by the deadline, the chances of him making it to FA and resigning here are slim.

XxNYIxX

I agree with you about everybody changing their mind on here.

Everybody has been alot more positive lately... I don't like it...

Alot of opinions have changed on here!!!
- jimmc7722

THATS for sure...although in his defense, kasper has been surprisingly negative despite whats right in front of his face.

I'm not undervaluing the role of a captain. I'm saying that leadership doesn't come from a piece of fabric. It comes from the player. When Mark Recchi was traded to the Bruins for a cup run a few seasons ago, do you think he didn't command respect in that locker room? He didn't have a "C" on his sweater. Same for Iginla in Pitt. Think he doesn't command respect in the Pitt locker room because Sid wears the "C"?

I think most of you out there clamoring for JT to get the "C" sewn onto his sweater are working under the assumption that Mark Streit is a bad captain. I've read or heard nothing to support that conclusion. In fact, I've read the opposite. You're assuming that Streit has a "weak personality" and that he doesn't speak his mind, as if that is a requirement to be a good captain. None of us know what type of Captain Mark Streit has been. None of us are in that room. Who are any of us to say that Mark Streit doesn't have the respect of the players and management? Again, I've read or heard nothing to that effect.
- Jethro09

Of course it's a requirement! That's why I defined the true role of the Captain earlier. It's not just about making intermission speaches and rallying the troops. It's about being the player representative. You're minimizing the Captain's role to a lockeroom atmosphere but it's more than that. I'm not saying Streit is a bad captain, but I have little doubt that Tavares would be a better Captain. I don't understand how anyone can put emphesis on how important it is to NOT trade the team Captain while minimizing the importance of who said Captain is.....

I think there is only one

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Two off the top of my head

Boyes is providing vetern leadership? I have to say, I really wish some of these computers came equiped with breathalizers on the keyboard. To act as though Boyes is getting criticized as a matter of convenience is to mean you've failed to watch any aspect of his game (almost all of which are lacking). The guy is flat out awful. The only place he's of any danger is on the shoot out. I'd go as far as to say that first line could be more effective if you inserted ANY player not named Reasoner. While Moulson is indeed struggling right now, he's produced for three consecutive years prior. He get's a pass for that. Boyes on the other hand has been a turnover machine since the day he arrived.
- keaner17

All true

XxNYIxX

then we have a fundamental disagreement. You feel that its okay to weaken your chances at the team's first playoff appearance in six seasons in return for a fourth round pick whereas I feel that a fourth round pick is not worth stripping your team of its captain and PP QB in the middle of its first playoff run in six seasons.

We also fundamentally disagree on Streit's abilities. Yes, Vis is a better player. But why do we have to let Streit go just because we signed Vis? Why can't the team keep both? Also, you act as if Streit is Jurcina out there. He's not as bad as you and others make him out to be. he's an above-average offensive d-man, perfectly capable of playing third pair minutes defensively and QBing the first PP unit.

Just like you want to say people can't assume the team wouldn't make the playoffs without Streit, you can't assume that Streit isn't going to be brough back. Just because he's a UFA doesn't mean the team can't bring him back.
- Jethro09

truth be told, if isles make the playoffs and streit is in fact looking for 5mill/year deal.. im thrilled with the no trade AND having him walk...(thats assuming 2 things 1) playoffs 2) wants 5 million a year

I never said we couldn't keep both... but one singed by the deadline & the other didn't... If Vis hadn't signed & Streit did.. I would have wanted Vis traded.

third pair mins & he wants 5.5 a year???
I never said they couldn't bring him back or that i didn't want him resigned... But he wasn't by the deadline, the chances of him making it to FA and resigning here are slim.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

He WANTS $5.5M per. Do you really think he's going to get that? He'll get around what Vis got, probably the same term too. And he'll get that offer before July 1. I think (I don't know) that if he gets an offer similar to Vis', he'll sign it.

So you're saying it doesn't matter who wears the C? It's just a letter? If they lead who cares if he's got a c or not? I don't agree with that. With that said I don't really care all I know is they're winning and that's all that matters to me at this point. I see both sides of the conversation as far as streit goes. You can't let these guys walk for nothing. Streets demands can be high bfr FA and not for nothing him walking for nothing doesn't sit well for me. The guy isn't worth what vis makes and hisgame has not been getting better and his age is a definite factor. Who knows what was offered for streit? Everyone on here just decided completely randomly it was a second round pick. It could've been a fourth or a late first for all any of us know? I don't hate streit but btn his play and age, contract demands from what we've heard, etc, it is not a crazy notion to think that trading him wouldve been a horrible idea. Again, at this point I don't really care all that much but come the summer if he walks and signs w the rangers for six.mil a year and we get nothing I bet a lot of the people on here saying how wonderful it was we kept him will be singing a different tune playoffs or not. This team is still rebuilding let's not forget. The funny thing is half the people on here blasting the idea of him being traded at the deadline were the very same people saying he should be traded.
- Cptmjl

You wrote what I was thinking, thank you

XxNYIxX

So you're saying it doesn't matter who wears the C? It's just a letter? If they lead who cares if he's got a c or not? I don't agree with that. With that said I don't really care all I know is they're winning and that's all that matters to me at this point. I see both sides of the conversation as far as streit goes. You can't let these guys walk for nothing. Streets demands can be high bfr FA and not for nothing him walking for nothing doesn't sit well for me. The guy isn't worth what vis makes and hisgame has not been getting better and his age is a definite factor. Who knows what was offered for streit? Everyone on here just decided completely randomly it was a second round pick. It could've been a fourth or a late first for all any of us know? I don't hate streit but btn his play and age, contract demands from what we've heard, etc, it is not a crazy notion to think that trading him wouldve been a horrible idea. Again, at this point I don't really care all that much but come the summer if he walks and signs w the rangers for six.mil a year and we get nothing I bet a lot of the people on here saying how wonderful it was we kept him will be singing a different tune playoffs or not. This team is still rebuilding let's not forget. The funny thing is half the people on here blasting the idea of him being traded at the deadline were the very same people saying he should be traded.
- Cptmjl

if streit signs a contract for 6 million/year ill personally drive him to MSG for every game of that contract

THATS for sure...although in his defense, kasper has been surprisingly negative despite whats right in front of his face.
- LetsGoIsles

I'm an Islander fan and I'm happy they're winning, that's it. That will never change has'nt in longer than you've been alive and it's not going to change any time soon. My opinion of Snow, Wang, and this orginization as a whole is exactly the same as it was a year ago. That will change when I see professionalism and sound decisions made by management over a period of time. If and when that happens consistently my opinion will change.

Of course it's a requirement! That's why I defined the true role of the Captain earlier. It's not just about making intermission speaches and rallying the troops. It's about being the player representative. You're minimizing the Captain's role to a lockeroom atmosphere but it's more than that. I'm not saying Streit is a bad captain, but I have little doubt that Tavares would be a better Captain. I don't understand how anyone can put emphesis on how important it is to NOT trade the team Captain while minimizing the importance of who said Captain is.....
- keaner17

You are saying I'm "minimizing" the importance of a captain. I never said that. I'm saying that you don't have to have a big mouth and be animated to be a good captain. I've said repeatedly that I've heard or read nothing to indicate that Streit is a bad captain. You are interpreting soft spoken and reserved as quiet and weak. Just because Streit isn't animated and yelling on camera every chance he gets doesn't mean he's a bad captain or that he doesn't get his message across.

When you say "the player representative", do you mean their representative to management? If so, explain to me why its necessary that the "player representative" be animated and loud? And you're assumption that JT will be a better captain is based upon what? That he's a better player? You may be right, but you don't have the information at your disposal to make such a claim, unless you are some team insider.

if streit signs a contract for 6 million/year ill personally drive him to MSG for every game of that contract
- LetsGoIsles

I think he'll be able to afford a better ride at that point?

I think he should have been gone if the team and return was right. Like I said earlier in this thread, a second from Florida for me would have been a done deal. A first from Boston or Montreal would have been no deal for me.

In my opinion, with Lubo under contract, our need is a stay at home defenseman. Someone with some skill, who can make the first pass and clear out the front of the net.

And I agree. I think he will be one of the most sought after defenseman on the market along with Gonchar. I also think that the same thing can be said about Boyes. He, along with Iginla (who I believe will be back in Pitt before July 1), Ryder and Horton will be the most sought after wingers in UFA.
- kencan98

boyes is not in the same class as iginla, ryder or horton.... hes CLEARLY a step, if not 2, below those 3

getting into the playoffs is valuable, showing the players what its all about and whetting their appetite is valuable.

if i offered you a playoff berth in exchange for a 2nd round pick, you wouldnt take it?
- LetsGoIsles

in a heartbeat, but again its being assumed that trading Streit would have ment no playoffs... I dont buy that.

XxNYIxX

He WANTS $5.5M per. Do you really think he's going to get that? He'll get around what Vis got, probably the same term too. And he'll get that offer before July 1. I think (I don't know) that if he gets an offer similar to Vis', he'll sign it.
- Jethro09

Well he did'nt before the trade deadline. It was said he was offered around the same as Vis and he rejected it. I highly doubt that he's going to be more cohesive with the idea when his market value goes up even further with free agency.