this. Seattle's not a viable hockey market, even though it's fashionable for everyone to think it is
- BestRapperAlive

Sadly, market viability isn't really a consideration.

As far as the NHL is concerned, if there is a willing owner and a half-decent arena, it's a candidate for a team.

Seattle may have both - but that's only if they get their NBA team first.

Why do you object to trying again in familiar locations?

Surely, as a panthers fan, you're aware that lots of people don't think the panthers franchise belongs in the NHL. I would think you'd be more charitable of other small-market or fringe franchises.

Care to explain your reasoning?
- Morris

I'm not 100% against it. Just why not try something new. People want the Panthers out because of the reason that it goes against their simple idea of where they think teams should be.

And yet... We still aren't anywhere to being as close to a joke of a franchise as the pens. Three times they were gona fold! Three!! What a (frank)ing joke!!!




- Deadmau55

Just a suggestion: a guy whose team was owned by Bruce McNall probably shouldn't be so aggressive in mocking other teams' ownership woes.

you guys seriously sound like a bunch of girls.
- Fountain-San

Sorry, I felt I had to add my 2 cents.

I believe that the NHL would be better off relocating Phoenix & Florida to QC and either Seattle or the ready to go Portland market. Do not water down the talent pool any more.

Sorry, I felt I had to add my 2 cents.

I believe that the NHL would be better off relocating Phoenix & Florida to QC and either Seattle or the ready to go Portland market. Do not water down the talent pool any more.
- ducks31

Why do people continue to say this?

The talent pool has never been bigger.

Hell, "watering down the talent pool" will actually make the game more exciting, as it will mean more gaffes and turnovers.

And yet... We still aren't anywhere to being as close to a joke of a franchise as the pens. Three times they were gona fold! Three!! What a (frank)ing joke!!!




- Deadmau55

You rlast post you said it was 2 times. Now it's up to 3? No wonder nobody takes anything you say seriously. The Penguins sucked in the late 90's and as a result lost money. Something the Kings are familiar with. Even in a Cup winning season the lousy Kings STILL found a way to bleed money. Talk about a joke. The Kings remain among one of top teams in terms of losing money. I see that you have not bothered to take time to research this fact. The Kings can't even make a name for themselves in their own city. Any Kings fans other than you post in Barry's thread yet?

Just a suggestion: a guy whose team was owned by Bruce McNall probably shouldn't be so aggressive in mocking other teams' ownership woes.
- Atomic Wedgie

I know we have has our fair share. But a pens fan mocking a panthers fans is simply ridiculous. They were in the same boat not to long ago.

Sorry, I felt I had to add my 2 cents.

I believe that the NHL would be better off relocating Phoenix & Florida to QC and either Seattle or the ready to go Portland market. Do not water down the talent pool any more.
- ducks31

If Anaheim didn't win, people would be talking about moving them out the door. But lucky for you guys you never have to put up with this stuff.

I'm not 100% against it. Just why not try something new. People want the Panthers out because of the reason that it goes against their simple idea of where they think teams should be.
- FloRidaCats

Right. It has nothing to do with their poor attendance or losing seasons.

I know we have has our fair share. But a pens fan mocking a panthers fans is simply ridiculous. They were in the same boat not to long ago.
- Deadmau55

You mean a decade ago? Then what happened? Why are the Panthers still in that boat?

You won it first. We won it better.


- Deadmau55

What the heck does that mean? You'll always be the 2nd California team to win the Stanley Cup.

Right. It has nothing to do with their poor attendance or losing seasons.
- woopstash

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

99.1%

I know we have has our fair share. But a pens fan mocking a panthers fans is simply ridiculous. They were in the same boat not to long ago.
- Deadmau55

What I have never understood is why fans care about the lack of financial success of other teams.

Yes, the Panthers can't draw flies. As a Leafs fan, that's probably a good thing for me now that they will be in the same conference next year. Lack of financial success will (in theory, at least) give them a lesser chance of fielding a team capable of making the playoffs.

If the Panthers are in the league, my Leafs play 82 regular season games a year.

If they fold, my Leafs will play 82.

If they relocate, my Leafs will play 82.

So really, why would I care if they are averaging 8,000 fans a night?

You rlast post you said it was 2 times. Now it's up to 3? No wonder nobody takes anything you say seriously. The Penguins sucked in the late 90's and as a result lost money. Something the Kings are familiar with. Even in a Cup winning season the lousy Kings STILL found a way to bleed money. Talk about a joke. The Kings remain among one of top teams in terms of losing money. I see that you have not bothered to take time to research this fact. The Kings can't even make a name for themselves in their own city. Any Kings fans other than you post in Barry's thread yet?
- woopstash

"In early 1975, however, the Penguins' creditors demanded payment of back debts, forcing the team into bankruptcy. The doors to the team's offices were padlocked, and it looked like the Penguins might fold or relocate."


"The team had the league's worst record in both the 1983 and 1984 seasons, and with the team suffering financial problems, it again looked as though the Penguins would fold"


"The Penguins were forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November 1998. For much of the 1998–99 season, it looked like the Penguins would either move or fold"


Your argument is invalid.

Great and we have been here for 45 years. The potential move was just because the owners (Rolston Purina) wanted out and the new owner wanted to move the team. Not due to a failed market. The NHL vetoed it because St. Louis is a market that works.
- cuethenoise

A money printing machine, litteraly...


Here is a look at the worth of all of the NHL teams for 2012.

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
1	Toronto Maple Leafs	521	3	25	193	81.8
2	New York Rangers	507	10	0	169	41.4
3	Montreal Canadiens	445	9	65	165	47.7
4	Detroit Red Wings	336	7	0	127	16.3
5	Boston Bruins	325	8	35	125	2.7
6	Chicago Blackhawks	306	2	0	118	8.7
7	Vancouver Canucks	300	15	37	146	23.5
8	Philadelphia Flyers	290	-4	22	111	3.2
9	Pittsburgh Penguins	264	12	38	110	-0.2
10	Los Angeles Kings	232	8	66	101	-2.0
11	Dallas Stars	230	1	126	90	-1.1
12	Washington Capitals	225	14	58	94	-7.5
13	Calgary Flames	220	7	15	105	1.1
14	Minnesota Wild	213	5	53	97	-5.9
15	Edmonton Oilers	212	16	47	96	17.3
16	San Jose Sharks	211	9	21	96	-7.8
17	Ottawa Senators	201	3	65	100	2.8
18	Colorado Avalanche	198	0	12	83	6.1
19	Anaheim Ducks	184	-2	35	84	-8.4
20	New Jersey Devils	181	-17	144	100	-6.1
21	Tampa Bay Lightning	174	20	26	87	-8.5
22	Buffalo Sabres	173	2	46	87	-5.6
23	Carolina Hurricanes	169	4	77	81	-4.4
24	Winnipeg Jets	164	21	61	71	-5.2
25	Nashville Predators	163	10	52	82	-7.5
26	Florida Panthers	162	-4	59	81	-7.0
27	St Louis Blues	157	-5	81	78	-2.7
28	Columbus Blue Jackets	152	-1	66	80	-13.7
29	New York Islanders	149	-1	67	63	-8.1
30	Phoenix Coyotes	134	0	26	70	-24.4

A money printing machine, litteraly...

Here is a look at the worth of all of the NHL teams for 2012.

Rank	Team	Current Value ($mil)	1-Yr Value Change (%)	Debt/Value (%)	Revenue ($mil)	Operating Income ($mil)
1	Toronto Maple Leafs	521	3	25	193	81.8
2	New York Rangers	507	10	0	169	41.4
3	Montreal Canadiens	445	9	65	165	47.7
4	Detroit Red Wings	336	7	0	127	16.3
5	Boston Bruins	325	8	35	125	2.7
6	Chicago Blackhawks	306	2	0	118	8.7
7	Vancouver Canucks	300	15	37	146	23.5
8	Philadelphia Flyers	290	-4	22	111	3.2
9	Pittsburgh Penguins	264	12	38	110	-0.2
10	Los Angeles Kings	232	8	66	101	-2.0
11	Dallas Stars	230	1	126	90	-1.1
12	Washington Capitals	225	14	58	94	-7.5
13	Calgary Flames	220	7	15	105	1.1
14	Minnesota Wild	213	5	53	97	-5.9
15	Edmonton Oilers	212	16	47	96	17.3
16	San Jose Sharks	211	9	21	96	-7.8
17	Ottawa Senators	201	3	65	100	2.8
18	Colorado Avalanche	198	0	12	83	6.1
19	Anaheim Ducks	184	-2	35	84	-8.4
20	New Jersey Devils	181	-17	144	100	-6.1
21	Tampa Bay Lightning	174	20	26	87	-8.5
22	Buffalo Sabres	173	2	46	87	-5.6
23	Carolina Hurricanes	169	4	77	81	-4.4
24	Winnipeg Jets	164	21	61	71	-5.2
25	Nashville Predators	163	10	52	82	-7.5
26	Florida Panthers	162	-4	59	81	-7.0
27	St Louis Blues	157	-5	81	78	-2.7
28	Columbus Blue Jackets	152	-1	66	80	-13.7
29	New York Islanders	149	-1	67	63	-8.1
30	Phoenix Coyotes	134	0	26	70	-24.4

- Pecafan Fan

That stormey guy can chew on that!

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

99.1%
- FloRidaCats

Attendance figures mean absolutely nothing without multiplying them by average ticket price.

Attendance figures mean absolutely nothing without multiplying them by average ticket price.
- Atomic Wedgie

He said no one goes to the games. The link I gave showed otherwise. Ticket prices are another story.

"In early 1975, however, the Penguins' creditors demanded payment of back debts, forcing the team into bankruptcy. The doors to the team's offices were padlocked, and it looked like the Penguins might fold or relocate."


"The team had the league's worst record in both the 1983 and 1984 seasons, and with the team suffering financial problems, it again looked as though the Penguins would fold"


"The Penguins were forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November 1998. For much of the 1998–99 season, it looked like the Penguins would either move or fold"


Your argument is invalid.
- Deadmau55

Congrats on learning how to use Wikipedia!
Doesn't change the fact that the Kings are STILL one of the top teams in terms of losing money. EVEN after winning. Kind of sad. Penguins struggled financially 30 and 40 years ago. What team hasn't struggled in that stretch? Hell, the Kings are still struggling. I know it's hard for you to accept. Poor little fella.

Congrats on learning how to use Wikipedia!
Doesn't change the fact that the Kings are STILL one of the top teams in terms of losing money. EVEN after winning. Kind of sad. Penguins struggled financially 30 and 40 years ago. What team hasn't struggled in that stretch? Hell, the Kings are still struggling. I know it's hard for you to accept. Poor little fella.
- woopstash

98-99 isn't 30-40 years ago

That stormey guy can chew on that!

pretty sure that chart helped prove his point.

I'm not 100% against it. Just why not try something new. People want the Panthers out because of the reason that it goes against their simple idea of where they think teams should be.
- FloRidaCats

Well I guess the reasoning of the QC camp would be that now that Canada is well clear from the economic meltdown that marred Quebec's first run in the NHL, they are essentially "something new".

Not new in the sense that the NHL has never been there, but certainly new in the sense that the population has grown from about 475k to 520k since they left, metro population now about 770k, the dollar hasn't dipped below 85 cents in 8 years and has been at or above the US dollar for about 5 years. So same city, but a better version of itself imo.

Are you capable of posting any other response other than these types?

"Ironic coming from a ____'s fan"
"Funny, coming from a ______'s fan"
"Someone from Laval mocking someone's intelligence."

I know it's difficult to try use real life arguments or facts but you might find it helps in being taken seriously. Just a tip.
- woopstash

Well said and a much calmer approach than mine

He said no one goes to the games. The link I gave showed otherwise. Ticket prices are another story.
- FloRidaCats

Please also keep in mind that those figures don't actually count how many people went to the game. In the NHL, attendance is tickets sold.

So when the Panthers sell blocks of tickets to Blimpie Subs to give away, it counts.

That stormey guy can chew on that!

pretty sure that chart helped prove his point.
- Fountain-San

2 spots higher than the Panthers?