Tavares is above ppg level idiot
- Danformo

Barely

I don't care who is on the Pens....MVP is Crosby. Heads and tails best player in the game. Not even close.

I don't care who is on the Pens....MVP is Crosby. Heads and tails best player in the game. Not even close.
- The-O-G

Well, when there's a trophy that asks for the "best player in the game" we'll stop discussing it (lie). As it is right now, that's not what the Hart is (supposed to be) given for.

Tavares is above ppg level idiot
- Danformo

You are correct, I transposed the GP and points column. He has 42 points in 40 games, a blistering 1.05 PPG. And don't call Tavares an idiot. That's not nice.

You said that Kadri was not a good defensive player.

If he wasn't good defensively he would be a minus player no matter who he played against.

The argument against Phaneuf for the last couple of years is that he's a poor defenseman because of his +/- right?

+/- shouldn't be considered one way of the other. The stat isn't based necessarily on your own play but also those around you. It shouldn't even be considered a personal stat IMO.

I'm not saying Ovechkin or Johnny T don't deserve nomination. I not suggesting that Kadri deserves nomination either.
- Kinger34

just because you're a plus player, doesn't mean you are good defensively.........please see the filip kuba example i've mentioned many times.

and just because you're a minus player, doesn't mean you're a bad defensive player........see lidstrom winning the norris with a minus rating.

my point was to disprove the idiot who said that tavares was a -5, which means he's terrible defensively, and therefor has no business being in teh hart conversation. it's WAAAAAAAAY easier to have a plus rating when you're on teh 3rd line, playing mostly against bottom six players, then when you're on teh top line, of one of the worst defensive teams in teh league, and playing every night against top players. and that argument is for both tavares AND ovechkin. they are ATLEAST as good defensively as kadri, despite what the +/- says

THAT was my point.

Well, when there's a trophy that asks for the "best player in the game" we'll stop discussing it (lie). As it is right now, that's not what the Hart is (supposed to be) given for.
- jmatchett383

How is the "best player in the game" not the "most valuable to his team"???????

Well, when there's a trophy that asks for the "best player in the game" we'll stop discussing it (lie). As it is right now, that's not what the Hart is (supposed to be) given for.
- jmatchett383

No matter what anyone says its SUPPOSED top be awarded for, as a practical matter, the trophy is REALLY awarded for the best player in the game. ...its been that way for years and it isn't going to change...I used to make the same argument for years back in the late 80's when Mario was missing out on the Hart trophy to Gretzky...Lemieux would single handedly get the Pens close to the playoffs but lose the award to Gretzky...it is what it is.

How is the "best player in the game" not the "most valuable to his team"???????
- cap1681

They should just officially change the definition of the Hart to MVP. It ends up getting all muddled and twisted the way it is. Like a back ten years or so ago when Gretzky was talking about it and mentioned that by the definition of the Hart it should have gone to Arturs Irbe. But that would never happen.

Just change it. Make it MVP.

How is the "best player in the game" not the "most valuable to his team"???????
- cap1681

It's the argument against Gretzky's Hart awards. Take him off that team, and they're still winning multiple Cups. Other players were more important to the success of their teams than he was, he was just an unreal player.
Case in point: Jose Theodore and Domiick Hasek winning in the 90s/00s. Low point totals, but their value to their team was immeasurable.

Again, not saying Crosby doesn't deserve it. Just saying the 2 aren't necessarily the same thing.

Or that he's back on the juice.....
- Ur Not Me

I'm quite partial to juice actually.

No matter what anyone says its SUPPOSED top be awarded for, as a practical matter, the trophy is REALLY awarded for the best player in the game. ...its been that way for years and it isn't going to change...I used to make the same argument for years back in the late 80's when Mario was missing out on the Hart trophy to Gretzky...Lemieux would single handedly get the Pens close to the playoffs but lose the award to Gretzky...it is what it is.
- Emperor Filonius

Agreed, I'm just stating that it's not (supposed to be) like the Vezina, which is just for "best goalie." Technically (if done to the true definition of the trophies), a player could win the Vezina and another goalie could win the Hart.

Basically, I'm saying a player can score 70 goals and 150 points, but if his team is 30th overall, then he's not really all that valuable because he's not helping them win consistently. Again, this is not an argument against Crosby, because, when he was healthy, he was helping them win consistently.

Pittsburgh without Crosby= 1st place in the atlantic. Isles without JT= last place in the atlantic. JT should get the MVP

Barely
- cap1681

Imagineif he had some decent linemates besides Boyes

Eklund: Could Tavares Swipe Hart Trophy w/ Late Push?
- Eklund

yes

They're only 2 players I'd take over JT
Stamkos and Crosby,

And Those who say Kadri plays sheltered minutes is right. I don't think Kadri is a ppg first line player, but rather a 60-70 ppg player 2C

Remember when Eklund talked about rumours...................

(sigh)

(returns to browsing porn)

They're only 2 players I'd take over JT
Stamps and Crosby,

And Those who say Kadri plays sheltered minutes is right. I don't think Kadri is a ppg first line player, but rather a 60-70 ppg player 2C
- Danformo

I would'nt do that

Eklund: Could Tavares Swipe Hart Trophy w/ Late Push?
- Eklund

Luongo for Tavares.

I would'nt do that
- Cptmjl

I would, what with the rising cost of postage and all.
And the fact that Stamkos potted 60 goals on a poop poor TB team last year.

Agreed, I'm just stating that it's not (supposed to be) like the Vezina, which is just for "best goalie." Technically (if done to the true definition of the trophies), a player could win the Vezina and another goalie could win the Hart.

Basically, I'm saying a player can score 70 goals and 150 points, but if his team is 30th overall, then he's not really all that valuable because he's not helping them win consistently. Again, this is not an argument against Crosby, because, when he was healthy, he was helping them win consistently.
- jmatchett383

Understood and agreed...I guess I'm just saying that from a practical standpoint, the literally defeinition of the award hasn't been followed for quite some time. I agree with your post and others saying they should change the definition of the award to what they are really awarding it for anyways to clarify it for all concerned....

...just like IMHO they should add a "Bobby Orr" award for most points by a defenseman vs the Norris, which could then be really used to award the best all around defenseman.

Never understand why fans fight over awards. Stanley Cup is all that matters. Winning awards just jacks up the players contracts. I would rather Tavares lead Islanders to playoffs than argue over personal accolades. I am just pleased that he helped make Moulson and Boyes big players for Islanders

Eklund: Could Tavares Swipe Hart Trophy w/ Late Push?
- Eklund

The last minus player to win the Hart was Stan Makita in 1968 with a -3. The worst since then is Ovie at +8 and Lemieux at +10.

As noted by many, it's highly unlikely Tavares wins if he's a minus player. Don't let a little research get in the way of a blog though.....

IMHO they should add a "Bobby Orr" award for most points by a defenseman vs the Norris, which could then be really used to award the best all around defenseman.
- Emperor Filonius

We can definitely agree on that. I was horrified that Mike Green was nominated for the Norris, when he's clearly a 2nd line right winger.

kadri plays sheltered minutes, mostly on the 3rd line. never plays against the other teams top players (forwards or d-men)

he has no business in the hart trophy conversation.........
- sensarmy_11

So you say you watch the Leafs but clearly don't...Kadri is 2nd line, and has the 5th highest time on ice among forwards for the Leafs. And he has been playing against other teams top lines recently...
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tea.../?hubname=nhl-maple_leafs

The Hart trophy right now is Ovechkins to lose unless Crosby somehow makes it back for the remaining few games of the season.