His wingers carry him and inflate his numbers. Tavares is extremely overrated. I would trade Luongo for him since I'd take him as a 3rd line center which is what he really is.
- Nucker101

Luongo is being too generous, how about Burrows and his chompers

Luongo is being too generous, how about Burrows and his chompers
- Danformo

Throw in Greg Louganis to replace his diving skills and we got a deal.

His wingers carry him and inflate his numbers. Tavares is extremely overrated. I would trade Luongo for him since I'd take him as a 3rd line center which is what he really is.
- Nucker101

And by the way, this is a ridiculous topic. Tavares is very good, no doubt, but he's not deserving of the MVP over Crosby. Even with the game he's missed, Crosby is still 6 points up in the scoring lead and is averaging 1.55 points per game, whereas Tavares isn't even breaking a point per game level. Crosby is a league leading +26 and Tavares is a -5. How in God's name could anyone justify giving the Hart trophy to a MINUS player? Yes, Malkin is on the Pens, but aside from the powerplay, the two don't play together. Should Gretzky have not won the MVP just because he played on a team with Messier, Kurri, Coffey etc? And as far as who Crosby does play with, both Kunitz and Dupuis are not heralded snipers, but they go from being solid players to being part of the best line in hockey when playing with Sid. Crosby is the MVP and it isn't even close.
- Emperor Filonius

Every single point you just listed argues that Crosby is a better player than Tavares. Problem is, we all know that already.

The Hart Trophy, if viewed was the most valuable player towards one team, doesn't have to go to the best player in the league.

The question that needs to be answered is "Does Crosby make more of a difference to the Pens than Tavares does for the Islanders". That's tougher.

I'd still give it to Crosby, but arguing things like PPG don't necessarily argue that a player is more important to their team.

I wish they had more awards though. Like one for the forward with the most points, another for the most valuable forward to his own team. One for the defensemen with the most points, the other for the most valuable defensemen to their own team, and so on.

Even in a shortened season it should be Crosby. However, it gets interesting if he doesn`t get a nomination because of his shortened season. The next most valuable are Kane or Toews. They would likely steal votes from each other. The next in line would be Kadri and getzlaf.

In order for me would be Crosby
Toews
Kane
Getzlaf
Kadri

I can hear the Leaf Haters now.
- yttrohs

We aren't Leaf haters. We just use logic.

Eklund: Could Tavares Swipe Hart Trophy w/ Late Push?
- Eklund

there are way too many guys on your list on teams that won't make the playoffs.

If NHL discipline was:
1) more severe
2) reasonably consistent
Players wouldn't feel the need to police themselves. Sadly, the NHL never seems to understand that.
- Emperor Filonius

Well said.

Agreed. The MDZ on Neal hit is a perfect example. No call on the ice, no fine, no summary discipline. We can argue all we want about what MDZ's intent was, but the fact is it was a reckless play that resulted in an elbow to the head, and a concussion that will sideline one of the Penguins most important players for who knows how long. The NHL needs to stop legislating based on intent and legislate based on outcome. Since the NHL didn't punish MDZ with even a fine, anyone want to guess what might happen the next time the Rangers and the Pens meet?
- Emperor Filonius

The NHL legislates based off of outcome a whole lot, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with you. In every single BS (Brendan Shanahan) video, he indicates the result of the play as a key component in his decision.

In fact, if you want to get seriousl, you discipline on INTENT, not outcome. If you legislate on intent, guys will be suspended when they throw an elbow, regardless of the outcome. When you tell guys "It's okay to do whatever you want as long as your don't injure someone," they are going to be more likely to commit dirty plays.

When you tell them "Regardless of what happens to a guy, if you throw an elbow we're going to give you 10 games" you'll see a lot less elbows in the league.

It's like alternated every year lol.

LA -2012
Bos-2011
Chi-2010
Pitt-2009
Det-2008
Ana-2007
Car-2006
TB-2004

So which eastern team wins it this year?
- drummer829

Facts have no place on HB. You should be ashamed.

With that said, Toronto wins it all.

I dont think they will ban it entirely... I think something along the lines of 1 game suspension for a fight plus the team gets fined. Then depending on fights a player has he will get more games and increased fines. (Kinda like how the technical foul penalty in the NBA happens)
- Bags502

So you're cool with players being able to run around cheap shotting top players on other teams without the fear of physical retribution? Staged fights is one thing, but a player going to the defense of a teammate is another.

no

The NHL legislates based off of outcome a whole lot, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with you. In every single BS (Brendan Shanahan) video, he indicates the result of the play as a key component in his decision.

In fact, if you want to get seriousl, you discipline on INTENT, not outcome. If you legislate on intent, guys will be suspended when they throw an elbow, regardless of the outcome. When you tell guys "It's okay to do whatever you want as long as your don't injure someone," they are going to be more likely to commit dirty plays.

When you tell them "Regardless of what happens to a guy, if you throw an elbow we're going to give you 10 games" you'll see a lot less elbows in the league.
- Moshe52792

That's what I was trying to get across, but you expressed it far better than I did...I don't like discussions about "intent" because that's almost impossible to gauge......the core of what I was trying to get was that the action is what should be punishable....ie I don't and won't ever know what player A's intent was when he elbowed player B, and it doesn't matter whether player B got hurt or not, but its the action of throwing the elbow in a reckless manner that gets punished.

It's like alternated every year lol.

LA -2012
Bos-2011
Chi-2010
Pitt-2009
Det-2008
Ana-2007
Car-2006
TB-2004

So which eastern team wins it this year?
- drummer829

Atlantipeg

Even in a shortened season it should be Crosby. However, it gets interesting if he doesn`t get a nomination because of his shortened season. The next most valuable are Kane or Toews. They would likely steal votes from each other. The next in line would be Kadri and getzlaf.

In order for me would be Crosby
Toews
Kane
Getzlaf
Kadri

I can hear the Leaf Haters now.
- yttrohs

This is a logical point. My favorite comment regarding Toews is from Babcock during the olympics regarding who was playing the best on one of the greatest teams ever assembled...

Q: Coach, who is playing the best?
A: Whoever is out there with Toews.

I'm a homer, so it is what it is, but Toews should be in this discussion every year, and especially when his team is at the top of the league standings.

That's what I was trying to get across, but you expressed it far better than I did...I don't like discussions about "intent" because that's almost impossible to gauge......the core of what I was trying to get was that the action is what should be punishable....ie I don't and won't ever know what player A's intent was when he elbowed player B, and it doesn't matter whether player B got hurt or not, but its the action of throwing the elbow in a reckless manner that gets punished.
- Emperor Filonius

Crosby is injury prone!!!

He shouldn't be considered elite!!!

He should retire... and sit in the owner's box with his mentor Mario!!!

Now you're just being stupid.
- Danformo

Obviously I am because he's light years away from those guys!!! I wonder how many players won the Hart trophy as a minus 5. This was yesterdays argument I would like to find a new one today but pretty sure if you put a poll up and asked non fans of the Isles, Oilers,and Flyers who you would rather have the results might kill you. Maybe not Kadri though he's coming on.

Obviously I am because he's light years away from those guys!!! I wonder how many players won the Hart trophy as a minus 5. This was yesterdays argument I would like to find a new one today but pretty sure if you put a poll up and asked non fans of the Isles, Oilers,and Flyers who you would rather have the results might kill you. Maybe not Kadri though he's coming on.
- lloyd095

I never said I woul vote JT MVP, top 5 yes, but Stamkos is the true Hart

And I would too, because if JT had close to the talent Giroux or Hall has around him it wouldn't even be a question JT is better

how can you consider crosby when he is injured all the time, with that said how can you not go with toews, great faceoffs %, does it all on ice and great leader, hawks are not as good without him if he goes down

Better question are the Isles making a push or are all the others fading? And does that garner consideration?

First, to all those who say JT is nowhere near as great, JT has never had the teams/linemates Giroux, Hall, Kadri (who is overrated and won't reach ppg pace next year), Malkin have had. JT is having a better season than all 4 of them, and hes playing with two players who are slower than molasses. Moulson was a nobody before JT, and Boyes had like 15 pts last season. If JT had an elite or even close to elite first line winger, he could easily break 100 pts. There are only 2 players I'd take over JT right now and thats Stamkos and Crosby.

Second, Stamkos hands down deserves the Hart if Crosby does not win.

Ovi Points in a win: 21W- 22G 13A 35Pts. Losses: 19L-4G-5A-9Pts (and 14ppg total)
Stamkos in wins: 17W-14G-15A-29Pts. Losses: 22W-12G-9A-21Pts

If Hart is for MVP to their team in the league it has to be Stamkos
- Danformo

Doesn't that clinch it for OV?

If he isn't being a monster his team losses every time.

I'm gonna be really disappointed if we don't get a Selke trophy blog from EK today.

Please tell me that you are not comparing JT and Malkin? That is just not right.

Exactly!!! Ovechkin, Toews, Stamkos, any of them are better without agument
- lloyd095

Doesn't that clinch it for OV?

If he isn't being a monster his team losses every time.
- AdamFrench

Exactly. That stat basically shows that the Lightning don't have a drastically altered record whether or not Stamkos produced. On the other side, Ovechkin's production is directly linked to their record. That's the definition of "most valuable to his team" where your play directly affects your team's ability to win.

Also, Toews is a great player, but not a Hart candidate.

I'm gonna be really disappointed if we don't get a Selke trophy blog from EK today.
- Nucker101

Danny Briere. Book it.