You would do it because you're a hockey fan and $9M for a first round pick is an abstract number to you. These are the sorts of moves that someone like Pegula might do but MLSE won't. They already sell out every game, how can you show them that Kassian and Gaunce are going to recoup that $27M, let alone deliver a return?
- Jeffmt

It's definitely not an easy sell but if you absolutely had to sell it to the Leafs ownership, you could inform them that they currently pay a combined 12.75 million dollars to Connolly, Komisarek, Tucker, Armstrong and Lombardi and get absolutely nothing of value on the ice for it. The difference? It's an investment into the future of the team adding to future earning power by having a better team in the long term.

You could even promise to spend less money in player salaries that you would have spent. So, for example, if the cap is 65 million, you intentionally spend 56 million and "save" 9 million dollars on money you would have spent anyway for a couple of years.

It's definitely not an easy sell but if you absolutely had to sell it to the Leafs ownership, you could inform them that they currently pay a combined 12.75 million dollars to Connolly, Komisarek, Tucker, Armstrong and Lombardi and get absolutely nothing of value on the ice for it. The difference? It's an investment into the future of the team adding to future earning power by having a better team in the long term.

You could even promise to spend less money in player salaries that you would have spent. So, for example, if the cap is 65 million, you intentionally spend 56 million and "save" 9 million dollars on money you would have spent anyway for a couple of years.
- Two_For_Truth

The problem with that is, there's really no evidence that adding certain players is going to increase the earning power for the Leafs. I suppose if they got Crosby they would make a fortune in merchandise sales but we're not exactly talking about Sid here. Toronto has seen some of it's worst hockey in the seasons that followed 2004 and I'm certain that they've made more money during that period than any other 9 year stretch in their existence.

The problem with that is, there's really no evidence that adding certain players is going to increase the earning power for the Leafs. I suppose if they got Crosby they would make a fortune in merchandise sales but we're not exactly talking about Sid here. Toronto has seen some of it's worst hockey in the seasons that followed 2004 and I'm certain that they've made more money during that period than any other 9 year stretch in their existence.
- Jeffmt

That's what the GM is there for. That's the guy they hired to know whether or not those players improve the team and that's the guy they have to rely on to make those decisions. Obviously, it's understood that it's a huge overpayment in money to get those guys but it's because it's something that's almost never purchased.

If the Leafs are dedicated to spending 65 million dollars a year on players and Nonis spends 56 million a year for three years (or whatever 9 million below the cap is) but uses that money he didn't spend to "buy" top prospects or 1st round picks, he could sell the idea to the owners. It's money he would spend anyway just in a different manner.

I actually think it's easier to convince the owners to spend that money on top prospects / 1st round picks than it is to convince Gillis to give up those guys just to buy-out Luongo.

I actually think it's easier to convince the owners to spend that money on top prospects / 1st round picks than it is to convince Gillis to give up those guys just to buy-out Luongo.
- Two_For_Truth

Give it time, because eventually, they'll need to clear a lot of guys for Cap anyways. And before anyone suggests teams would buy the assets that the MLSE would essentially buy from Lungo's contract, let's look at it this way; If the Leafs wouldn't take Gillis low prices for Luongo, whose going to take premium prices? At the very least, the Leafs can ante small assets immediately without ruining the Canucks room. Provide them the needs to retool, not rebuild.

Essentially, a proposed deal would go something like this.

To TOR
Luongo
Bieksa
a 2013 1st
Kassian
Booth

To VAN
Grabovski
Liles
a Conditional 1st 2014 (On the terms that the Leafs make 2014 ECF, otherwise it's a third)
a 2015 2nd
A pair of prospects or a combination of such

Essentially, it's giving up wasted spots in the lineup, overpriced contracts we can't really make use of effectively. You use draft picks an NHL fringe prospects to fill their line-up while they figure out what to do. We take a player of salary we could use (Booth replaces Mac, and gives VAN less targets for buyout, and take Salary).

Cap change is as follows

Bieksa = 4.6 Million
Booth = 4.25 Million
Luongo = 5.3 Million
Kassian = ELC a Million or so

Total Cap hit = 15.15 Million

Grabovski = 5.5 Million
Liles = 3.875

Total Cap Hit = 9.375

Giving Van an extra 5.5 million to work with w/o a single buyout. From there if they buy out Ballard that's 10 million in space, and from there they could potentially buy out another contract and be close to 14/15 million with very little big contracts to have to sign/deal with. It's essentially doing them a huge a favour. And giving them players signed long term that are marginally better than free agency would give them, remove Lou from the locker room and end the debacle.

Give it time, because eventually, they'll need to clear a lot of guys for Cap anyways. And before anyone suggests teams would buy the assets that the MLSE would essentially buy from Lungo's contract, let's look at it this way; If the Leafs wouldn't take Gillis low prices for Luongo, whose going to take premium prices? At the very least, the Leafs can ante small assets immediately without ruining the Canucks room. Provide them the needs to retool, not rebuild.

Essentially, a proposed deal would go something like this.

To TOR
Luongo
Bieksa
a 2013 1st
Kassian
Booth

To VAN
Grabovski
Liles
a Conditional 1st 2014 (On the terms that the Leafs make 2014 ECF, otherwise it's a third)
a 2015 2nd
A pair of prospects or a combination of such

Essentially, it's giving up wasted spots in the lineup, overpriced contracts we can't really make use of effectively. You use draft picks an NHL fringe prospects to fill their line-up while they figure out what to do. We take a player of salary we could use (Booth replaces Mac, and gives VAN less targets for buyout, and take Salary).

Cap change is as follows

Bieksa = 4.6 Million
Booth = 4.25 Million
Luongo = 5.3 Million
Kassian = ELC a Million or so

Total Cap hit = 15.15 Million

Grabovski = 5.5 Million
Liles = 3.875

Total Cap Hit = 9.375

Giving Van an extra 5.5 million to work with w/o a single buyout. From there if they buy out Ballard that's 10 million in space, and from there they could potentially buy out another contract and be close to 14/15 million with very little big contracts to have to sign/deal with. It's essentially doing them a huge a favour. And giving them players signed long term that are marginally better than free agency would give them, remove Lou from the locker room and end the debacle.
- Viktory

I imagine the Canucks would prefer buying out Luongo 5 times before making a deal like that.

Pretty much giving you a 1st string all-star caliber goalie who has at least 3-4 of great years left in him along with one of our best prospects... a 1st round pick.. and a very capable top 4 D man being the only guy with any real toughness on our backend so that you can "swallow" this huge pill of a contract.. yet we are taking your giant pill of a contract with Grabovski. And Liles is garbage. The only way this deal works is if that 1st round pick is NOT conditional... and it includes a prospect who is at least somewhat highly touted (not talking Gardiner here)

they'll put him on waivers if they can't trade him, and someone WILL take him for free.

Nonis would. If Gillis said he'd take a 7th rounder, Lu would be in Toronto right now.

If he's on waivers, he's gone. Gillis just trying to make a hockey deal. He sure as hell isn't going to give away further assets just to get rid of Luongo.

they'll put him on waivers if they can't trade him, and someone WILL take him for free.

Nonis would. If Gillis said he'd take a 7th rounder, Lu would be in Toronto right now.

If he's on waivers, he's gone. Gillis just trying to make a hockey deal. He sure as hell isn't going to give away further assets just to get rid of Luongo.
- Big_Lightnin

Exactly... I do believe he gets traded... for something along the lines of... average prospect.. + conditional 2nd rounder or something similar.

He has value.. its just a matter of how much value... no one knows exactly what was offered and will probably never know.

I'm not at all surprised he didn't get moved.. he is good insurance to have in the playoffs.. and we can afford to keep both for now

I've been saying all along that the Bruins have games in hand + Jagr, they win the NE.

It's TOR/MTL in the 4-5 slot and I'll pay up the bum to get a ticket in Toronto
- AngryWhiteMale

they only have 1 game in hand, and Habs are playing better than them right now.

I imagine the Canucks would prefer buying out Luongo 5 times before making a deal like that.

Pretty much giving you a 1st string all-star caliber goalie who has at least 3-4 of great years left in him along with one of our best prospects... a 1st round pick.. and a very capable top 4 D man being the only guy with any real toughness on our backend so that you can "swallow" this huge pill of a contract.. yet we are taking your giant pill of a contract with Grabovski. And Liles is garbage. The only way this deal works is if that 1st round pick is NOT conditional... and it includes a prospect who is at least somewhat highly touted (not talking Gardiner here)
- kneughter

If you're dreaming. The Canucks will trade Schneider before even thinking of doing something assinine like that.

I imagine the Canucks would prefer buying out Luongo 5 times before making a deal like that.

Pretty much giving you a 1st string all-star caliber goalie who has at least 3-4 of great years left in him along with one of our best prospects... a 1st round pick.. and a very capable top 4 D man being the only guy with any real toughness on our backend so that you can "swallow" this huge pill of a contract.. yet we are taking your giant pill of a contract with Grabovski. And Liles is garbage. The only way this deal works is if that 1st round pick is NOT conditional... and it includes a prospect who is at least somewhat highly touted (not talking Gardiner here)
- kneughter

Okay, conditional first was a bad idea. I'd relent the first straight up.

As for waivers... I'm not so sure. It's still a horrible contract, and Florida isn't going to take it. Tampa just picked up goaltender, Leafs have two capable goaltenders. Columbus has Bob playing that team into contention, and the Flyers who were rumoured interest would have to deal with Bryz.

Fine, don't take Liles, how about Gunnerson and the RFA status, we'll throw I a Holzer and a decently touted prospect in Finn.

You're not going to get much, and Cap space is incredibly tight and that team isn't going to buy out everyone.

If you're dreaming. The Canucks will trade Schneider before even thinking of doing something assinine like that.
- golfingsince

I was talking straight up for Lu...

Exactly... I do believe he gets traded... for something along the lines of... average prospect.. + conditional 2nd rounder or something similar.

He has value.. its just a matter of how much value... no one knows exactly what was offered and will probably never know.

I'm not at all surprised he didn't get moved.. he is good insurance to have in the playoffs.. and we can afford to keep both for now
- kneughter

According to Dregger - Last offer from Nucks was Scrivens and two 2nd's, and Nonis said No. That was just before 3pm today.

apparently Gillis made 3 different offers in last hour or so, and all were turned down.

Lu's pretty pissed, and his comments were terrible for the Canucks. Good luck down the stretch with that in the room.

Okay, conditional first was a bad idea. I'd relent the first straight up.

As for waivers... I'm not so sure. It's still a horrible contract, and Florida isn't going to take it. Tampa just picked up goaltender, Leafs have two capable goaltenders. Columbus has Bob playing that team into contention, and the Flyers who were rumoured interest would have to deal with Bryz.

Fine, don't take Liles, how about Gunnerson and the RFA status, we'll throw I a Holzer and a decently touted prospect in Finn.

You're not going to get much, and Cap space is incredibly tight and that team isn't going to buy out everyone.
- Viktory

The whole proposal is a disaster from a vancouver perspective... I at least appreciate you that you are willing to admit Luongo would make your team better.

I keep asking this question.. and no one seems to want to answer it.

Lets say Gillis signed Luongo to a normal contract... lets say 6-7 year deal.. at 7 million per ( he was making 6.75, cap was going up and it could be even more potentially). Would Luongo at 7 million cap hit for the next 3-4 years be anymore attractive? I believe his contract now.. is at least equal to.. if not.. more appealing than that sort of deal. Probably the best option for Gillis was to sign Lu to something like 3 years at 7 million and pray that Schneider will make that jump. Goalies can be tricky and there is no guarantee that Schneids was going to be an elite goalie. This was also during a time where these kind of contracts were becoming popular (cap circumvention)

So again, whats more appealing... 3-4 years left at 7ish million or 9 years with a nice cap hit of 5.3?

According to Dregger - Last offer from Nucks was Scrivens and two 2nd's, and Nonis said No. That was just before 3pm today.

apparently Gillis made 3 different offers in last hour or so, and all were turned down.

Lu's pretty pissed, and his comments were terrible for the Canucks. Good luck down the stretch with that in the room.
- Big_Lightnin

Meh... what comments were terrible? I thought he handled it well.. if anything.. Gillis made idiotic comments.

Meh... what comments were terrible? I thought he handled it well.. if anything.. Gillis made idiotic comments.
- kneughter

"My contract sucks. That's the reason I'm still here. I'd rip it up right now if I could" (so I wouldn't have to be here...)

he is pissed off he's still a Canuck.

The whole proposal is a disaster from a vancouver perspective... I at least appreciate you that you are willing to admit Luongo would make your team better.

I keep asking this question.. and no one seems to want to answer it.

Lets say Gillis signed Luongo to a normal contract... lets say 6-7 year deal.. at 7 million per ( he was making 6.75, cap was going up and it could be even more potentially). Would Luongo at 7 million cap hit for the next 3-4 years be anymore attractive? I believe his contract now.. is at least equal to.. if not.. more appealing than that sort of deal. Probably the best option for Gillis was to sign Lu to something like 3 years at 7 million and pray that Schneider will make that jump. Goalies can be tricky and there is no guarantee that Schneids was going to be an elite goalie. This was also during a time where these kind of contracts were becoming popular (cap circumvention)

So again, whats more appealing... 3-4 years left at 7ish million or 9 years with a nice cap hit of 5.3?
- kneughter

The point of the contract is to take a bunch of your cap space, and buyout Lu with one of our amnesty. It's not about Lou, it's about the Leafs buying some of the Canucks assets (Like Bieksa, and a first) to give them cap space, serviceable players that make less combined salary so the team can retool again and not feel pressured against the Cap. It also gives Lou a new start.

Oh I'd rather take 7 for 3-4 years. Over 9, and being forced for remaining term for absolutely no reason other than punishing people for acquiring a contract someone else signed.

If not Kassian, than someone else. In my opinion, it'd be a workable idea.

The problem with that is, there's really no evidence that adding certain players is going to increase the earning power for the Leafs. I suppose if they got Crosby they would make a fortune in merchandise sales but we're not exactly talking about Sid here. Toronto has seen some of it's worst hockey in the seasons that followed 2004 and I'm certain that they've made more money during that period than any other 9 year stretch in their existence.
- Jeffmt

I was making a similar point yesterday about why the Leafs will certainly not be buying out Grabo this year.

"Investment in the future of the team" has no meaning or value to ownership unless you can put some hard numbers (a quantifiable dollar figure) on it.

"My contract sucks. That's the reason I'm still here. I'd rip it up right now if I could" (so I wouldn't have to be here...)

he is pissed off he's still a Canuck.
- Big_Lightnin

He is pissed that he is not a starter... the guy is one of the most competitive players in the league.

Don't put words into his mouth... just I will not try to. He wants to play as much as possible.. and win as much as possible.

He will be fine in the dressing room.. he is a bigger class act than people give him credit for.. especially after being jerked around by AV and MG.

Okay, conditional first was a bad idea. I'd relent the first straight up.

As for waivers... I'm not so sure. It's still a horrible contract, and Florida isn't going to take it. Tampa just picked up goaltender, Leafs have two capable goaltenders. Columbus has Bob playing that team into contention, and the Flyers who were rumoured interest would have to deal with Bryz.

Fine, don't take Liles, how about Gunnerson and the RFA status, we'll throw I a Holzer and a decently touted prospect in Finn.

You're not going to get much, and Cap space is incredibly tight and that team isn't going to buy out everyone.
- Viktory

I'd be shocked if Oilers passed on him on waivers. Leafs too for that matter. Nonis wanted him - he just wanted him for free.

Buffalo Miller for Lu+ certainly isn't out of the question this summer.

and just for Fun - what if Detroit can't sign Howard? Lu fits for them, and they can make the cap work. although, having 3 golden parachute contracts already, might not want a 4th. still, something to think about

He is pissed that he is not a starter... the guy is one of the most competitive players in the league.

Don't put words into his mouth... just I will not try to. He wants to play as much as possible.. and win as much as possible.

He will be fine in the dressing room.. he is a bigger class act than people give him credit for.. especially after being jerked around by AV and MG.
- kneughter

oh he's been pure Pro so far. even seemed looser and having fun with it all season.

today, he just said "(frank) it."

will get worked out... but there is stuff to work out now. not everybody hear's things the same way.

The point of the contract is to take a bunch of your cap space, and buyout Lu with one of our amnesty. It's not about Lou, it's about the Leafs buying some of the Canucks assets (Like Bieksa, and a first) to give them cap space, serviceable players that make less combined salary so the team can retool again and not feel pressured against the Cap. It also gives Lou a new start.

Oh I'd rather take 7 for 3-4 years. Over 9, and being forced for remaining term for absolutely no reason other than punishing people for acquiring a contract someone else signed.

If not Kassian, than someone else. In my opinion, it'd be a workable idea.
- Viktory

I think you would be hard pressed to find many canucks fans who would see that as a good proposal (homer or not)

I consider myself level headed.. and tend to undervalue our players than over-value. I just don't like seeing/hearing people talk crap about a player they never see.. EVER! (not referring to you)

You would be surprised with his contract... in 5 years.. when he isn't being paid very much but his cap hit is 5.3 million... a team like NYI.. Columbus... or whichever teams are struggling at that given moment with an owner who is watching the bottom line... they will snatch him up in a heart beat. Pay a goalie 1 million in actual dollars to have him count 5.3 against the cap. A dream for a few teams/owners.

I'd be shocked if Oilers passed on him on waivers. Leafs too for that matter. Nonis wanted him - he just wanted him for free.

Buffalo Miller for Lu+ certainly isn't out of the question this summer.

and just for Fun - what if Detroit can't sign Howard? Lu fits for them, and they can make the cap work. although, having 3 golden parachute contracts already, might not want a 4th. still, something to think about
- Big_Lightnin

Agreed. Can't imagine a situation where 29 teams pass on Lu for free.

The cap hit (and retirement penalty) blows, but some teams don't care.

The point of the contract is to take a bunch of your cap space, and buyout Lu with one of our amnesty. It's not about Lou, it's about the Leafs buying some of the Canucks assets (Like Bieksa, and a first) to give them cap space, serviceable players that make less combined salary so the team can retool again and not feel pressured against the Cap. It also gives Lou a new start.

Oh I'd rather take 7 for 3-4 years. Over 9, and being forced for remaining term for absolutely no reason other than punishing people for acquiring a contract someone else signed.

If not Kassian, than someone else. In my opinion, it'd be a workable idea.
- Viktory

if it's good for Leafs to buy him out and get those assets, why wouldn't Canucks just buy him out and keep their assets, that are better than what Leafs are sending them?

and I'm not looking for an answer - asking you to think about that side of it.

Agreed. Can't imagine a situation where 29 teams pass on Lu for free.

The cap hit (and retirement penalty) blows, but some teams don't care.
- Leeman4Gilmour

hell I could see Flyers taking him and buying out Bryz

Homer's that (frank)ing crazy

and Bryz's buyout would be less than Lou's... $21.5M of $51M total has already been paid...

Agreed. Can't imagine a situation where 29 teams pass on Lu for free.

The cap hit (and retirement penalty) blows, but some teams don't care.
- Leeman4Gilmour

To me.. Tampa just seems like the best fit for Lu and for them. He wants to be in Florida.. and Lu has.. easily.. 4-5 great years left in him. And boy can tampa score.. but they can't seem to stop the puck.

Luongo + a capable defensive defenseman = very solid team

Tampa SHOULD be wanting to win in the next few years.. yet they keep bringing in these project goalies.. whether they are veterans or rookies.

Its strange to me..