How many 2nds does to take to get a 1st round pick?
- Chipd

77

Um, even if they werent picking first overall, they werent going to be a playoff contender. They lost pretty much the entire team that had helped them reach the finals in 05-06. They went from Stanley Cup finals to no playoffs in 06-07.

Without Vanek, maybe we were a first overall team. And for 4 years we wouldve had two non-playoff first round picks.

Theres very few players in the NHL that are really worth 4 first round picks. Thomas Vanek wasnt at the time and never will be worth 4 first round picks. Losing your 2 best players, yeah, he shouldve passed.
- theblueandgold

It's so easy to make this argument now. Immediately after he pots 43 goals and 80+ points, immediately after Drury and Briere walk, that decision is a LOT different. My point was, though, I think that Vanek would be willing to take a hometown discount to stay here. He doesn't strike me as a market hog, and like I said, if he didn't want to be here, why would he come out and say that he does when the Sabres don't have a remote chance of competing this season (and probably for the next few seasons.)

at the time Briere and Drury had just walked out the door for nothing....no way was Vanek going too.

I'm sure it wasnt just darcy, I sure ownership said you match.

They had no choice at the time. You think they did but hindsight is 20/20.

The oilers gave us a cheap shot, thats the only thing I have an issue with.
- Homer

They reacted without really giving it any thought. They thought short term instead of long term. This isnt hindsight. I've been making this argument since the contract was matched. Vanek wasnt worth 4 first round draft picks at the time, and he hasnt been since.

Just looking at the makeup of that team, it was easy to predict they werent going to be a playoff contender, even with Vanek. So you cant predict they would finish dead last, okay, but the Sabres minues Briere-Drury-Vanek might have, and we wouldve had 2 non-playoff first round picks for FOUR years. Talk about a quick rebuild.

It's believed the Sabres would want a young NHL-proven forward, a top prospect and a first-round draft pick in exchange for Vanek, a price the Flyers might be willing to pay.
- Irish 14

really?

Courterier? I don't know who they have as prospects..

LEGGIO IS THE TRUTH!

Here's my opinion on the top three (and Stafford):

Pommers - The guy is one of our most consistent players, but has lost his focus the past handful of games. He should have never been given the "C"... an "A" would have been perfect for him. I truly think that he will be the only one of the big 3 dealt before 3pm (Wednesday). He's still young and a lot of teams could use a guy like him on their roster... he would get us a 1st rounder and possibly a respectful prospect.

Miller - He's a very good goaltender, almost elite. We all know that he's mentally fragile and is good for stirring up the locker room at times (always a good interview lol). I believe that you need a very solid goaltender to go anywhere in this league, so you only deal him "IF" you have a solid player to take his spot. The best time to deal this guy would be around draft time or the off-season.

Vanek - True talent that would put up even better numbers with a stud centering him. Hodgson might be this guy very soon, but that's a not a guarantee. If I was Darcy I'd try to extend him hoping that he'd be willing to help his cap numbers slightly with bonus type incentives... add 4-5 years onto his current contract. I really don't want to see this guy leave unless we could get a younger version of his talent level...

Just my .02 cents

As far as Stafford... waaaaay too much money invested into a VERY streaky forward! That is one contract that Darcy got wrong and now he is going to have to pull off a lateral move (Okposo type). I'd look for a solid prospect or another 2nd round draft pick. He will not get you a 1st, trust me on this!!!

LEGGIO IS THE TRUTH!
- BuffaloKyle

I'm not going to delve too deep into 'defending Darcy' territory, but he hasn't done that in a few years. And definitely not since Pegula.
- BuffaJoe

Even if he doesn't say it, the fans say it for him in explaining why he didn't make the big move.

I think it's a joke that a lot of us are patting him on the back already for making the Leo and RR trades. These trades were so obvious and easy, my wife could have made them (she doesn't follow hockey).

Let's see if he has the stones to make the big move - and the necessary move - moving Miller, Pommer, and/or Vanek.

It's believed the Sabres would want a young NHL-proven forward, a top prospect and a first-round draft pick in exchange for Vanek, a price the Flyers might be willing to pay.
- Irish 14

Simmons and a first for Vanek sign me up

They reacted without really giving it any thought. They thought short term instead of long term. This isnt hindsight. I've been making this argument since the contract was matched. Vanek wasnt worth 4 first round draft picks at the time, and he hasnt been since.

Just looking at the makeup of that team, it was easy to predict they werent going to be a playoff contender, even with Vanek. So you cant predict they would finish dead last, okay, but the Sabres minues Briere-Drury-Vanek might have, and we wouldve had 2 non-playoff first round picks for FOUR years. Talk about a quick rebuild.
- theblueandgold

Quick like the Oilers rebuild, you mean? They used those picks, and they're still struggling just to be a fringe team.

And you can't say that it's not hindsight when you look at something in hindsight. If you can predict the future, you should really start taking advantage of that ability.

really?

Courterier? I don't know who they have as prospects..
- JVince11

Ill take Wellwood and Holmstrom + a pick

really?

Courterier? I don't know who they have as prospects..
- JVince11

JV - from the TFP

Vanek to Carolina for Jordan Stall

Quick like the Oilers rebuild, you mean? They used those picks, and they're still struggling just to be a fringe team.

And you can't say that it's not hindsight when you look at something in hindsight. If you can predict the future, you should really start taking advantage of that ability.
- BuffaJoe

Blackhawks Penguins? DO my two examples beat your 1?

Vanek to Carolina for Jordan Stall
- BuffaloKyle

I love Jordan Staal but he was moved there for a reason

Here's my opinion on the top three (and Stafford):

Pommers - The guy is one of our most consistent players, but has lost his focus the past handful of games. He should have never been given the "C"... an "A" would have been perfect for him. I truly think that he will be the only one of the big 3 dealt before 3pm (Wednesday). He's still young and a lot of teams could use a guy like him on their roster... he would get us a 1st rounder and possibly a respectful prospect.

Miller - He's a very good goaltender, almost elite. We all know that he's mentally fragile and is good for stirring up the locker room at times (always a good interview lol). I believe that you need a very solid goaltender to go anywhere in this league, so you only deal him "IF" you have a solid player to take his spot. The best time to deal this guy would be around draft time or the off-season.

Vanek - True talent that would put up even better numbers with a stud centering him. Hodgson might be this guy very soon, but that's a not a guarantee. If I was Darcy I'd try to extend him hoping that he'd be willing to help his cap numbers slightly with bonus type incentives... add 4-5 years onto his current contract. I really don't want to see this guy leave unless we could get a younger version of his talent level...

Just my .02 cents

As far as Stafford... waaaaay too much money invested into a VERY streaky forward! That is one contract that Darcy got wrong and now he is going to have to pull off a lateral move (Okposo type). I'd look for a solid prospect or another 2nd round draft pick. He will not get you a 1st, trust me on this!!!
- Dannymik

Solid post there.

They reacted without really giving it any thought. They thought short term instead of long term. This isnt hindsight. I've been making this argument since the contract was matched. Vanek wasnt worth 4 first round draft picks at the time, and he hasnt been since.

Just looking at the makeup of that team, it was easy to predict they werent going to be a playoff contender, even with Vanek. So you cant predict they would finish dead last, okay, but the Sabres minues Briere-Drury-Vanek might have, and we wouldve had 2 non-playoff first round picks for FOUR years. Talk about a quick rebuild.
- theblueandgold

You dont think they gave it a thought? Really? Lets break it down. We just lost out 2 captains for nothing. Our young stud up and coming 40 goal scorer could be out the door. Back then would you trade Drury Briere and Vanek for 4 first round draft picks? Hell no. They had no other options here. If they didnt match Buffalo would be more of a laughing stock in this league. Every since year one of their RFA's would be offer sheets just for the hell of it.

If you really think they should have walked away thats your M/O but I just dont see how they could have let him walk

Even if he doesn't say it, the fans say it for him in explaining why he didn't make the big move.

I think it's a joke that a lot of us are patting him on the back already for making the Leo and RR trades. These trades were so obvious and easy, my wife could have made them (she doesn't follow hockey).

Let's see if he has the stones to make the big move - and the necessary move - moving Miller, Pommer, and/or Vanek.
- jacquescloutier

I'm not patting him on the back for making those trades, but they needed to be made, and I'm glad they were. Again, I'm not going down the slippery slope of defending Darcy, he has plenty of blunders against him. He hasn't 'done nothing' the last few years though, I'm not sure why people still consider him an underactive GM.

Simmons and a first for Vanek sign me up
- Stripes77

Vanek is our only top line player on the team. Would rather not trade him for a 2nd liner and a pick thats probably going to be outside the top 10.

I hate saying this because he is a local boy . Leggio is not an NHL goaltender ! he does not control his rebounds at all . He gives up big fat ones that will be in the back of the net in the NHL . Been to watch him play in Rochester many time , I heard he had gotten better but when I watched the Amerks - Marlies game on TV it sure did not look like it . He has great AHL numbers , but up here he would be a tire fire . But if we are looking to improve draft position , might be the move to make
- Maximum Signal

Having seen Leggio play a bunch of times over the past two years, his rebound control is a weakness. But that's true of a lot young goalies, and can be improved. He has definitely gotten better since last year, but it is still an issue.

Quick like the Oilers rebuild, you mean? They used those picks, and they're still struggling just to be a fringe team.

And you can't say that it's not hindsight when you look at something in hindsight. If you can predict the future, you should really start taking advantage of that ability.
- BuffaJoe

The last team to draft first overall 3 years in a row was Quebec. How long did it take them to win a cup after that last first overall pick? 5 years. They traded one of those picks for more players, and found themselves a franchise goalie.

The only thing left for them is to find a goalie. They should probably trade one of Yakupov or Nugent-Hopkins for a larger package of players in my opinion. They do one or both of these things, they will be a playoff team in probably 2 years minimum.

Blackhawks Penguins? DO my two examples beat your 1?
- hubie

Well, we were talking about the Oilers picks, hence me referencing the Oilers rebuild. Both Chicago and Pit have been lucky to get absolute studs in the draft, but yes, we should all be jealous of their GMs' team building skillz.

The last team to draft first overall 3 years in a row was Quebec. How long did it take them to win a cup after that last first overall pick? 5 years. They traded one of those picks for more players, and found themselves a franchise goalie.

The only thing left for them is to find a goalie. They should probably trade one of Yakupov or Nugent-Hopkins for a larger package of players in my opinion. They do one or both of these things, they will be a playoff team in probably 2 years minimum.
- theblueandgold

The Oilers are already on year 5, and again with the future predicting, you should really jump on that. People have been saying 'with this top pick in the draft the Oilers will be a different team this year' for the last three years. They're still a fringe team, and now those young guys are about to run out their ELCs.

They are going to build around Vanek IMO. I'd like to see Pominville get a return of a 1st and a high value prospect (preferably a center) to compete with Hodgson and Grigo for the top line center. There are so many possibilities over the next few months it's just a matter of Regier pulling it off.

Vanek is our only top line player on the team. Would rather not trade him for a 2nd liner and a pick thats probably going to be outside the top 10.
- Rally_Shots

Philly is just as bad as we are its a top 10 pick