It's making my head spin. They're pros. They don't need to be taught offense. I don't think when Albert Pujols is in a slump the staff teaches him how to hit again. I don't think the Pittsburgh staff is teaching Pittsburgh how to attack. If anything else you saw during the playoffs what a lack if solid play away from the puck does to a team as what happened to the Penguins. They had control if the puck for most of the first period and they didnt score bc of a lack of execution. It's like a football team that moves the ball between the 20's and can't get touchdowns.

I have respect for guys like Rick Carpinello and Andrew Gross and they have consistently said Torts hasn't lost the team. We are not in that locker room. We don't know what's going on.

As far as torts psych "games". When the team wasnt playing well a bunch of you wanted this one benches and that one benched. Now can't bench anyone bc now you ruin them. You can't have it both ways. So TJ, Glenn, I'm on your side. I'm frustrated and pissed but this reminds me so much of the Tom Coughlin situation.
- Blueshirts4ever

I agree. I asked Vin the other day how he would practice offense if he was coach. To me it's all about defense, break outs and offensive zone entry. From there it's up to the individual skill of the players on the ice. Move to open ice, third man high, keep your stick on the ice, all of that but what else do you teach or practice? The PP is a much easier thing to practice.

So then right before the second run everyone wanted him fired too. If you listen to guys like Carpinello talk he isn't as in your face as the public thinks.

I think the Ranger brass is basing this on 34 games. Period. In a normal season we aren't talking about this. Some people in here are acting like this team is old and are chasing a cup. There is still a you g core here. A lot of that young core Torts has been a part of developing. I really don't think they want to react off of 34 games. They didnt replace what was lost adequately in the off season. If they make the right moves in the offseason they can bounce back.
- Blueshirts4ever

And a lot of young cores take lumps. This current lump is certainly significant and painful. But maybe it's a positive in the long run

So then right before the second run everyone wanted him fired too. If you listen to guys like Carpinello talk he isn't as in your face as the public thinks.
- Blueshirts4ever

Because he had 2 years of failures coming from the hands of the Eagles. Asante Samuel had that game in the divisional playoffs where he INT'd Manning 2 twice. Also didn't help that Plax poop himself. Then when Matt Dodge killed the Giants and sent the Eagles to playoffs.

The similarities of the losing is there. Like Coughlin, Torts has 2 losses to to the same team in the playoffs(The Caps.) Then he suffered a heart breaking loss to the FLyers on the final game of a season to decide who got into the playoffs. That's where the similarities end. Coughlin has two championships to his name, without being brash to the media. Torts is brash and has a hard time changing himself and his gameplan.

You got a point.

Boucher doesn't impress me. Neither does ruff. How bout Larry Robinson? I doubt he'd be intrested in rangers tho
- Slimtj100

I like Larry Robinson but it's all about whether he wants to be a head coach again. Sometimes I think he's happier being an assistant.

And a lot of young cores take lumps. This current lump is certainly significant and painful. But maybe it's a positive in the long run
- Slimtj100

Could be a case of having to take a step back to take more steps going forward. Do we forget MTL is a year removed from finishing dead last??

I agree. I asked Vin the other day how he would practice offense if he was coach. To me it's all about defense, break outs and offensive zone entry. From there it's up to the individual skill of the players on the ice. Move to open ice, third man high, keep your stick on the ice, all of that but what else do you teach or practice? The PP is a much easier thing to practice.
- gkmkiller

Offense is more instinctive then anything. Seemingly every game the chances are there with the exception of a game here or there. The chances are consistently there, turning them into goals is not

Because he had 2 years of failures coming from the hands of the Eagles. Asante Samuel had that game in the divisional playoffs where he INT'd Manning 2 twice. Also didn't help that Plax poop himself. Then when Matt Dodge killed the Giants and sent the Eagles to playoffs.

The similarities of the losing is there. Like Coughlin, Torts has 2 losses to to the same team in the playoffs(The Caps.) Then he suffered a heart breaking loss to the FLyers on the final game of a season to decide who got into the playoffs. That's where the similarities end. Coughlin has two championships to his name, without being brash to the media. Torts is brash and has a hard time changing himself and his gameplan.
- tomburton99

We don't know if he can change. He had no camp. He can't install a new system. I still don't know what new system means. And we don't know how he is with guys. If 24/7 is any indication he has a good idea if when rip the guys and when to back off.

Could be a case of having to take a step back to take more steps going forward. Do we forget MTL is a year removed from finishing dead last??
- Blueshirts4ever

Yup

Offense is more instinctive then anything. Seemingly every game the chances are there with the exception of a game here or there. The chances are consistently there, turning them into goals is not
- Slimtj100

Totally. I don't t think anyone is telling Malkin and Crosby what to do with the puck. Their talents and instinct takeover.

I agree. I asked Vin the other day how he would practice offense if he was coach. To me it's all about defense, break outs and offensive zone entry. From there it's up to the individual skill of the players on the ice. Move to open ice, third man high, keep your stick on the ice, all of that but what else do you teach or practice? The PP is a much easier thing to practice.
- gkmkiller

Well theres clearly a problem with the offense because even on the PP they cant seem to get it together. Looks like chickens with their heads cut off. No ability to control the puck, no respect from opposing defenses.

So then right before the second run everyone wanted him fired too. If you listen to guys like Carpinello talk he isn't as in your face as the public thinks.

I think the Ranger brass is basing this on 34 games. Period. In a normal season we aren't talking about this. Some people in here are acting like this team is old and are chasing a cup. There is still a you g core here. A lot of that young core Torts has been a part of developing. I really don't think they want to react off of 34 games. They didnt replace what was lost adequately in the off season. If they make the right moves in the offseason they can bounce back.
- Blueshirts4ever

I also think the public perception of Torts being a hard ass is somewhat overblown. That doesn't mean he has an indefinite shelf life but all coaches run the proverbial course at some point.

However, while you point to our young core and I agree with that, I'll also say that we have a great chance this year (if we made the playoffs and played halfway well) and next to win a Cup. We have so many players set to hit UFA in the summer of 2014 and we have no good idea what the salary cap will be. We are going to probably lose a couple of key guys off the roster we have now; guys we wouldn't want to lose. That's why I do think we need to take advantage this year or next.

I also think the public perception of Torts being a hard ass is somewhat overblown. That doesn't mean he has an indefinite shelf life but all coaches run the proverbial course at some point.

However, while you point to our young core and I agree with that, I'll also say that we have a great chance this year (if we made the playoffs and played halfway well) and next to win a Cup. We have so many players set to hit UFA in the summer of 2014 and we have no good idea what the salary cap will be. We are going to probably lose a couple of key guys off the roster we have now; guys we wouldn't want to lose. That's why I do think we need to take advantage this year or next.
- gkmkiller

I'm not giving up on this year either. I'm as frustrated as anyone but been watching pro sports a long long time. Anything can happen.

Well theres clearly a problem with the offense because even on the PP they cant seem to get it together. Looks like chickens with their heads cut off. No ability to control the puck, no respect from opposing defenses.
- aecliptic

See. This is why bringing D Boyle makes sense. If that PP can execute just a little bit, then the pressure 5 on 5 gets lifted and teams will think twice about playing over aggressively and even taking liberties.

I agree. I asked Vin the other day how he would practice offense if he was coach. To me it's all about defense, break outs and offensive zone entry. From there it's up to the individual skill of the players on the ice. Move to open ice, third man high, keep your stick on the ice, all of that but what else do you teach or practice? The PP is a much easier thing to practice.
- gkmkiller

What I meant by it was that they obviously don't have a planned or practiced breakout, there is no transition from defense to offense, the transition for them happens after they dump it in, it's old school hockey that doesn't win Cups, they also have no set plays like redirections in the slot and lets not get started on the passing

For whatever reason he changed as a coach from his Cup with Tampa to now, you can't preach safe is death then die every night.

Well theres clearly a problem with the offense because even on the PP they cant seem to get it together. Looks like chickens with their heads cut off. No ability to control the puck, no respect from opposing defenses.
- aecliptic

No doubt and I've advocated making a change there. I don't agree with firing Sullivan necessarily but I've advocated bringing in another set of eyes and voice to run the PP. Obviously Sullivan has to be held accountable for the lackluster PP. If Torts wants the players to be held accountable for their performance then the coaches need to be as well. That means Sullivan has to turn the PP over to someone else in my book.

I like Larry Robinson but it's all about whether he wants to be a head coach again. Sometimes I think he's happier being an assistant.
- gkmkiller

He's also in Cali to be closer to his daughter. I think he just wants a few more years in the league before he retires.

What I meant by it was that they obviously don't have a planned or practiced breakout, there is no transition from defense to offense, the transition for them happens after they dump it in, it's old school hockey that doesn't win Cups, for whatever reason he changed as a coach from his Cup with Tampa to now, you can't preach safe is death then die every night.
- cranford93

He has changed somewhat. I do think that they have breakouts in place because I've seen them use them effectively and when they do they create some great chances. Where they run into problems is when they do not get the puck onto the tape of the stick of the guy moving with speed through the neutral zone. Either the puck is behind the player or completely off target. That needs to be worked on for sure.

He's also in Cali to be closer to his daughter. I think he just wants a few more years in the league before he retires.
- rmdevil313

Yeah, forgot about that. I definitely believe he enjoys coaching but he did seem to shy away from head coaching opportunities in the past so maybe he prefers being an assistant.

I also think the public perception of Torts being a hard ass is somewhat overblown. That doesn't mean he has an indefinite shelf life but all coaches run the proverbial course at some point.

However, while you point to our young core and I agree with that, I'll also say that we have a great chance this year (if we made the playoffs and played halfway well) and next to win a Cup. We have so many players set to hit UFA in the summer of 2014 and we have no good idea what the salary cap will be. We are going to probably lose a couple of key guys off the roster we have now; guys we wouldn't want to lose. That's why I do think we need to take advantage this year or next.
- gkmkiller

I agree with that 100%, his emotion is not the problem but haters just see what the media outside NY thinks for the 2 months they actually get to talk to him

Could be a case of having to take a step back to take more steps going forward. Do we forget MTL is a year removed from finishing dead last??
- Blueshirts4ever

Montreal hired a new coach, and they went from being one of the worst teams in the league to one of the best.

I am just curious, how long does Torts' get with you? You mentioned earlier that he gets a full camp next year. So, if they suck after 30 games next year, you are not going to oppose a coaching change then, right?

I was on the whole opposite of 94-95 where the Devils were up and coming lost the previous Cup then won it in the shortened season, I felt like that was us coming into the lockout, now it appears we may be following the same path as our last Cup but holding on to the youth.

Montreal hired a new coach, and they went from being one of the worst teams in the league to one of the best.

I am just curious, how long does Torts' get with you? You mentioned earlier that he gets a full camp next year. So, if they suck after 30 games next year, you are not going to oppose a coaching change then, right?
- Pete V

I am 100% on board with this. This has been a Topsy-turvy season and on the heels of what he did with the club last year I feel he has earned that much. Beyond that, in large part because I feel our best chance to win a Cup is with this roster before it is deconstructed in 2014 due to the sheer number of UFA's we will have, then I would make a change at coach if Torts does not have this team playing well at the 1/4 point next season.

I was on the whole opposite of 94-95 where the Devils were up and coming lost the previous Cup then won it in the shortened season, I felt like that was us coming into the lockout, now it appears we may be following the same path as our last Cup but holding on to the youth.
- cranford93

This is what it boils down to for me. I have no confidence in John Tortorella coaching this team anymore. I don't think that he has lost the team in the sense that they hate him, and aren't willing to play for him. But, I do think that he is just not getting through to them, and I don't see that changing. The fact that they are dead last in the league in goals is simply inexcusable. The fact that they bore us all to death just makes it even worse.

Of course, I respect the other side of this argument, but has this guy earned an unlimited pass? Would you guys, at least concede that if this team misses the playoffs, they need to seriously explore a coaching change before next season?

I am 100% on board with this. This has been a Topsy-turvy season and on the heels of what he did with the club last year I feel he has earned that much. Beyond that, in large part because I feel our best chance to win a Cup is with this roster before it is deconstructed in 2014 due to the sheer number of UFA's we will have, then I would make a change at coach if Torts does not have this team playing well at the 1/4 point next season.
- gkmkiller

The concept of "earned" is an interesting one. Let's say your GM and you believe in your heart of hearts that it isn't going to work, do you not make a change because the coach has earned it?

I was on the whole opposite of 94-95 where the Devils were up and coming lost the previous Cup then won it in the shortened season, I felt like that was us coming into the lockout, now it appears we may be following the same path as our last Cup but holding on to the youth.
- cranford93

I think I even posted a piece here on HB discussing my fear of the lockout shortened season. As has been mentioned, if we were 34 games into a full, 82-game schedule I don't think any of us would be horribly concerned. But because we only have 14 games left it amplifies the magnitude of how much this team has struggled. And that sucks because I wasn't ever this excited about a season as I was this summer.