If we could move Read+Talbot+Coots for a #1dman, you'd better do it. I love all 3 of them, but if that's the package it takes to get a real #1, it's hard to overlook it. However, I doubt Montreal wants to move Subban, since they have him for 1 more year AND he's still an RFA after that.
Now, if you have to do those 3 and some picks/parts for Pietrangelo or Nashville is willing to revisit Weber (let me dream), then absolutely.
We just need to somehow get Cloutier to become GM of Nashville so that we can "help" the Preds by taking Weber off their hands for some spare parts.
- jmatchett383

Why does everybody want to always rip this roster apart...Even if you dont get Jones in the draft, assuming you are not getting Mackinnon or Drouin, there are other top prospect d men like Nurse and Pullock out there sure they may take a little longer to develop and yes they are a "sure thing" but honestly we need to let this thing happen on its own and not try to force it. Maybe thats a main reason that we havent won a cup in my lifetime. You make "Pronger" like trades when you have a ton of assets and this team doesnt.....it needs to stock the selves before they can make moves like your suggesting. I hate to admit this but kinda like Pittsburgh

And no need for it, look we know they need a #1 dman but that cost is so high you pretty much have to blow up your team to a point or offer prospects which we really don't have or even add in picks which we can't afford to do because we lack any decent depth in our system.

This is at a point that we'll just have to suck it up for a bit while the add prospects, develop them, & then work them into the NHL
- ob18

At this point I doubt a number 1 is available without seriously depleting the roster as you say otherwise he'd be had already. Instead I'd just like to see them round out the group with another addition but on a more one for swap. There is one depth at forward, use it to get a guy that can log minutes and move the puck not quite a number 1 but a far cry from foster and gervais. Get the team to buy into back checking and team defense, that should propel them back into contender status.

anyone know where I can see the whole Snider interview....I only saw what they played on post game live yesterday

Many would I wouldn't.
- ob18

Okay, so you're opposed to trading young assets in any case, no matter what the return? Then we may as well be looking to trade Hartnell, Timonen, and Bryzgalov right now, because by the time all of these young picks are able to contribute in any way (which is a total crapshoot), those players will be towards the tail end of their careers. If we're not going to be open to moving any prospect/pick assets to acquire proven NHL players, let's move any player over 30 right now.

Again, I'm not saying to just toss picks/prospects around for overaged veterans, and I'm not saying to throw huge long-term contracts at FAs. I'm just saying that this team needs to be open to any/all avenues that can help them both in the short-term and long-term. That's why they went all-in for Shea Weber, because you could build a team around him and Giroux. You never know what a 1st/2nd/3rd rounder can be.

anyone know where I can see the whole Snider interview....I only saw what they played on post game live yesterday
- nonpoint22

Go to Tim's blog........

Tim has a nice summary of an interview with Snider.

I like a lot of the comments, and they make me feel a bit better about the whole situation.

Really like the approach they are taking, and using it as an evaluation year. Ive been beating that drum since day one of the cluster(frank) season.

A lot of looking at the big picture, and realising they are where they are for a reason. The Flyers will be back, and I have faith.
- flyer_nutter

Snider's answers sounded really rational.
That was a good and reassuring interview.

Go to Tim's blog........
- flyer_nutter

Thanks

Okay, so you're opposed to trading young assets in any case, no matter what the return? Then we may as well be looking to trade Hartnell, Timonen, and Bryzgalov right now, because by the time all of these young picks are able to contribute in any way (which is a total crapshoot), those players will be towards the tail end of their careers. If we're not going to be open to moving any prospect/pick assets to acquire proven NHL players, let's move any player over 30 right now.

Again, I'm not saying to just toss picks/prospects around for overaged veterans, and I'm not saying to throw huge long-term contracts at FAs. I'm just saying that this team needs to be open to any/all avenues that can help them both in the short-term and long-term. That's why they went all-in for Shea Weber, because you could build a team around him and Giroux.
- jmatchett383

No I'm not, my feeling is it's an area that every team wants they will make the cost very high & them know you don't have one and need one will make it even higher.

I'm not willing to pay that cost & hurt other areas, they have been doing it for years.

Look at it this way when they traded for Pronger they gave up 3 1st round picks (including Sbisa) & Lupul and Pronger was 34 at the time, now think of the cost to land one who is say 23 to 27 and it goes up.

Not a cost I'm interested in paying.

Snider's answers sounded really rational.
That was a good and reassuring interview.
- Marc D

Again though, actions and words... We will see but it made me feel better.

Back on page 1, I basically threw down what I thought the team needed to do.

Just me, but at this point I am done with a few of the "better" players on the team.

Okay, so you're opposed to trading young assets in any case, no matter what the return? Then we may as well be looking to trade Hartnell, Timonen, and Bryzgalov right now, because by the time all of these young picks are able to contribute in any way (which is a total crapshoot), those players will be towards the tail end of their careers. If we're not going to be open to moving any prospect/pick assets to acquire proven NHL players, let's move any player over 30 right now.
- jmatchett383

I would consider trading Hartnell if it gets them a guy to play on the top pair D for 3+ years. I think a top line of Read/G/Jake V is pretty viable.

I see him as an asset that is very valuable, but maybe easier to replace then it is to get a top pair defenseman.

Timonen they keep, as it buys them a little time to either look at the free agents the following year or develop a guy the get in the draft this season.

Bryz they keep, at least through next season.

No I'm not, my feeling is it's an area that every team wants they will make the cost very high & them know you don't have one and need one will make it even higher.

I'm not willing to pay that cost & hurt other areas, they have been doing it for years.

Look at it this way when they traded for Pronger they gave up 3 1st round picks (including Sbisa) & Lupul and Pronger was 34 at the time, now think of the cost to land one who is say 23 to 27 and it goes up.

Not a cost I'm interested in paying.
- ob18

Snider's answers sounded really rational.
That was a good and reassuring interview.
- Marc D

He is impatient, but he isn't a fool. He knows that they have to reassess things in the wake of Pronger. He also knows they have a lot of kids who can play who are at the NHL level now.

No I'm not, my feeling is it's an area that every team wants they will make the cost very high & them know you don't have one and need one will make it even higher.

I'm not willing to pay that cost & hurt other areas, they been doing it for years.

Look at it this way when they traded for Pronger they gave up 3 1st round picks (including Sbisa) & Lupul and Pronger was 34 at the time, now think of the cost to land one who is say 23 to 27 and it goes up.

Not a cost I'm interested in paying.
- ob18

Really a hypothetical situation but if Weber came up for play again I would be willing to give up a lot. Probably having a good 1st rounder this year helps with that.

2 out of the following 3 and you have a deal. Hartnell/Brayden Schenn/Coots.

No I'm not, my feeling is it's an area that every team wants they will make the cost very high & them know you don't have one and need one will make it even higher.

I'm not willing to pay that cost & hurt other areas, they been doing it for years.

Look at it this way when they traded for Pronger they gave up 3 1st round picks (including Sbisa) & Lupul and Pronger was 34 at the time, now think of the cost to land one who is say 23 to 27 and it goes up.

Not a cost I'm interested in paying.
- ob18

And Pronger got them to within 2 games of a Cup. And no one expected him to end his career the way it did. They knew the cost to land one at 26 (4 1sts or Couturier+Schenn+???). They weren't willing to do the trade for roster players but would have done the 1sts for him. And I would do that offer 11 days a week. I guess we're just going to disagree, because if a young (not Pronger's age, Weber or younger) #1 defenseman is available, I think you have to do your best to acquire him, because it's the hardest position to fill in the NHL.

Apologies for what ended up being a really long run-on sentence at the end.

Really a hypothetical situation but if Weber came up for play again I would be willing to give up a lot. Probably having a good 1st rounder this year helps with that.

2 out of the following 3 and you have a deal. Hartnell/Brayden Schenn/Coots.
- flyer_nutter

Personally I won't deal with a hypothetical because I don't believe this even has a remote chance of happening.

I would consider trading Hartnell if it gets them a guy to play on the top pair D for 3+ years. I think a top line of Read/G/Jake V is pretty viable.

I see him as an asset that is very valuable, but maybe easier to replace then it is to get a top pair defenseman.

Timonen they keep, as it buys them a little time to either look at the free agents the following year or develop a guy the get in the draft this season.

Bryz they keep, at least through next season.
- Marc D

Lets be honest here, who would want Hartnell with the length of his deal. Honestly last season was really his only great breakout season other then that he has been a 2nd-3rd line guy. Plus he is one of are locker room leaders and with Briere's buyout and Timonen probably retireing you are leaving G without much vet help in that room

And Pronger got them to within 2 games of a Cup. And no one expected him to end his career the way it did. They knew the cost to land one at 26 (4 1sts or Couturier+Schenn+???). They weren't willing to do the trade for roster players but would have done the 1sts for him. And I would do that offer 11 days a week. I guess we're just going to disagree, because if a young (not Pronger's age, Weber or younger) #1 defenseman is available, I think you have to do your best to acquire him, because it's the hardest position to fill in the NHL.
- jmatchett383

Again you would I wouldn't, it's what they have been doing and it hasn't worked. Time for something else to get a chance.

Look at Detroit's model of how they do things and see how it could be EVERY year not just one every few.

I would consider trading Hartnell if it gets them a guy to play on the top pair D for 3+ years. I think a top line of Read/G/Jake V is pretty viable.

I see him as an asset that is very valuable, but maybe easier to replace then it is to get a top pair defenseman.

Timonen they keep, as it buys them a little time to either look at the free agents the following year or develop a guy the get in the draft this season.

Bryz they keep, at least through next season.
- Marc D

You bring up one of the guys I am pretty much done with in my head.

A lot of the things Hartnell brings (when on his game) are really useful. He would however be far from an untouchable in my eyes. Chronically inconsistent, chronically stupid, and for being of the top paid veterans that doesnt cut it for me anymore. I want that poop off the team, in time, under the right deal of course.

Regarding Timonen, I strongly believe in mentors and veteran pairing partners for young d-men. If Timonen goes, you have nobody.

Again though, actions and words... We will see but it made me feel better.

Back on page 1, I basically threw down what I thought the team needed to do.

Just me, but at this point I am done with a few of the "better" players on the team.
- flyer_nutter

I liked your points, agree with most of them.

I think the crucial thing is, if they decide to part with players like Hartnell and Coburn, they need to make those trades very carefully.

Make the wrong moves there and the downward spiral will get a lot worse.

Read is not a 1st line player? Just because our stupid coach moved hartnell down doesn't make read a top line player. Not saying hartnell didn't deserve demotion but read is a 2nd or 3rd line winger that is opportunistic scorer. He has s knack for finding open ice. Good hockey sense hood defense posItOnal player good pk player. Yes he is valuable yes he is needed but most teams have a plyer lime that on their team. Most teams however do not have a devastating relentless bone jarring hitter with heart that will fight anyone lime rinaldo. Maybe with a little more ice time and with more offensive talented players along side him his offensive game will improve. Kinda like ahole clarkson.
- SMS4016

If they were to offer each player up in trade, Read would get a much larger return than Rinaldo. Both fill roles. Read fills a much larger one. Vesatile, plays every situation, good speed, rarely takes a bad penalty.

Its asinine to suggest Rinaldo would be more "untouchable" than Read.

Personally I won't deal with a hypothetical because I don't believe this even has a remote chance of happening.
- ob18

Really a hypothetical situation but if Weber came up for play again I would be willing to give up a lot. Probably having a good 1st rounder this year helps with that.

2 out of the following 3 and you have a deal. Hartnell/Brayden Schenn/Coots.
- flyer_nutter

7.8 million cap hit and giving up all that....love Shea but no thanks

I guess this is my rationale for thinking about moving young picks for proven young players:
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman this year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman next year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman the following year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman the following year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman the following year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman the following year.
Shea Weber will be a premier, elite defenseman the following year.
barring a crazy unforseen injury

Seth Jones may never be able to adapt to the NHL.
Darnell Nurse may never be able to adapt to the NHL.
Any other unproven defenseman you draft may never be able to adapt to the NHL.
It is a whole lot easier to replace top-6 NHL forwards than it is top 2 NHL defensemen.

I think the win yesterday was more of Boston being sloppy then the flyers playing well... Break downs did happen, bryz just happened to bail them out....ill be pissed if they miss the playoffs by two points

Lets be honest here, who would want Hartnell with the length of his deal. Honestly last season was really his only great breakout season other then that he has been a 2nd-3rd line guy. Plus he is one of are locker room leaders and with Briere's buyout and Timonen probably retireing you are leaving G without much vet help in that room
- nonpoint22

I think 28 teams would want Hartnell.
25 goals a year, good size, can play in front of the net, has a big personality.

His contract makes the return a bit tougher.

But the guy is a legit first line winger.

Look at the results of the lines he has been part of the last few years here.

Harts/Carter/Lupul
Harts/Briere/Leino
Harts/G/Jagr