c'mon....are we really arguing about Ryan Miller's 'greatness' right now....

he is a good, not great goalie, with a poor defense in front of him/

your statements show that you are a hater that bases his opinion on your own feelings instead of fact.
- Putzfrau

What's his GAA?
Has he won a cup?
Did he let in a soft goal which cost the USA the gold medal?

Hopefully we will see if he is an elite goalie if he gave his list of 8 teams he won't go to.

c'mon....are we really arguing about Ryan Miller's 'greatness' right now....

he is a good, not great goalie, with a poor defense in front of him/
- Sabres2012CUP

thats the issue though... assuming you'd qualify the top five goalies int he league as "great" he's at or around that level year in and year out.

there was a bunch of pretty extensive statistics posted here yesterday, and they all showed that miller's advanced statistics are quite good, even when considering the team he's played for. only a handful of names "beat" him or are more consistent (luongo, brodeur lundqvist)

Do you think Miller's wife calls him "Mr.Softee"??

Do you think Miller's wife calls him "Mr.Softee"??
- sbroads24

What's his GAA?
Has he won a cup?
Did he let in a soft goal which cost the USA the gold medal?

Hopefully we will see if he is an elite goalie if he gave his list of 8 teams he won't go to.
- atlsabsfan

Really can't use that as an argument IMO. He is the single reason they got medal in that tournament. Period no debate about that. USA was maybe the 4th most talented team and Miller carried them.

yeah...Goose fetched a 1st last year so who knows...I do think Regher could get a first from a contender and maybe a lower-mid prospect
- Sabres2012CUP

2 years ago, probably. Now, not so much. That was foolish overpayment by Nashville.

What's his GAA?
Has he won a cup?
Did he let in a soft goal which cost the USA the gold medal?

Hopefully we will see if he is an elite goalie if he gave his list of 8 teams he won't go to.
- atlsabsfan

miller was the only reason the usa was able to compete for a gold to begin with. to blame the loss on him, when he practically carried us there in the first place, isn't exactly fair IMO.

he hasn't won a cup because he's been on the sabres...

and his career GAA numbers arent incredible, but they are decent when you look at the teams he was on. even when the sabres were good they were an offensive powerhouse that outscored and outshot. millers numbers when they competed in back to back ecf were nothing extraordinary, but it was the nature of the game at the time.

... and the rest of his numbers are good. even strength save percentage has been well above the league average for years! theres only a handful of goalies that put up consistently great even handed save percentages.

regardless theres a wealth of knowledge in the previous thread, i'd rather not go over and rehash everything that was already said yesterday so i'll let it go

I think you can't use the 'soft goal' argument because it is your interpretation...

there is no set standard for declaring something a 'soft goal'

Really can't use that as an argument IMO. He is the single reason they got medal in that tournament. Period no debate about that. USA was maybe the 4th most talented team and Miller carried them.
- sbroads24

i might not even go that far.

i might not even go that far.
- Putzfrau

Miller has the 5th most wins since the lockout, has been in the top 10 in saves every year with the exception of 11-12, consistently faces in the top half of shots per game, has I believe and don't quote me, the 2nd most shootout wins of any goalie since that was implemented. There are stats that say he's in an elite class, and stats that say he's average. Fact is, he's been a workhorse and has been pretty good his whole career

Miller has the 5th most wins since the lockout, has been in the top 10 in saves every year with the exception of 11-12, consistently faces in the top half of shots per game, has I believe and don't quote me, the 2nd most shootout wins of any goalie since that was implemented. There are stats that say he's in an elite class, and stats that say he's average. Fact is, he's been a workhorse and has been pretty good his whole career
- sbroads24

i think we can all at least agree on that.

Really can't use that as an argument IMO. He is the single reason they got medal in that tournament. Period no debate about that. USA was maybe the 4th most talented team and Miller carried them.
- sbroads24

The conversation started out with a statement about Miller letter in soft goals.

Until Darcy is fired, none of this matters.

Sure he made two good trades at the deadline last year. And the team still got worse.

miller was the only reason the usa was able to compete for a gold to begin with. to blame the loss on him, when he practically carried us there in the first place, isn't exactly fair IMO.

he hasn't won a cup because he's been on the sabres...

and his career GAA numbers arent incredible, but they are decent when you look at the teams he was on. even when the sabres were good they were an offensive powerhouse that outscored and outshot. millers numbers when they competed in back to back ecf were nothing extraordinary, but it was the nature of the game at the time.

... and the rest of his numbers are good. even strength save percentage has been well above the league average for years! theres only a handful of goalies that put up consistently great even handed save percentages.

regardless theres a wealth of knowledge in the previous thread, i'd rather not go over and rehash everything that was already said yesterday so i'll let it go
- Putzfrau

Sry - didn't visit yesterday...

The conversation started out with a statement about Miller letter in soft goals.
- atlsabsfan

every goalie lets in the occasional soft goals. proclaiming miller somehow does it more often than average, or "too" often, is something that can't be verified, nor is it supported by any statistic on the planet. so if you wanna feel that way, thats fine, but its an unarguably position, for or against.

i would suggest checking out yesterdays thread if you're interested

i think we can all at least agree on that.
- Putzfrau

Mismanaged for sure - but he was good with Lalime not winning as a backup - I don't know - I feel like he's a big head that needs to go - he hasn't won the big one and he has to take some of the blame. Elite goalies steal big games - that's my biggest problem with him.

Pominville and a pick and maybe even a prospect for Nick Foligno and one of their firsts (potentially Adam Erne if the draft lotto turns out in our favor). Blue Jackets should be buyers with 3 firsts and being 1 point out of a playoff spot. The Foligno brothers in Buffalo? Why hasn't this been thought of?

Ott and Foglino for TT , McNeil , Morin and Pirri.
- mrpaulish

Never happening.

every goalie lets in the occasional soft goals. proclaiming miller somehow does it more often than average, or "too" often, is something that can't be verified, nor is it supported by any statistic on the planet. so if you wanna feel that way, thats fine, but its an unarguably position, for or against.

i would suggest checking out yesterdays thread if you're interested
- Putzfrau

Not so much this year ill agree, but if you can't remember the last three years of soft goals - then so be it. Ill let it go, I have a honey do list to attack today and have to go. I don't think we will have to worry about him this time next year.

Mismanaged for sure - but he was good with Lalime not winning as a backup - I don't know - I feel like he's a big head that needs to go - he hasn't won the big one and he has to take some of the blame. Elite goalies steal big games - that's my biggest problem with him.
- atlsabsfan

You mean like shutting out the Flyers in games 1 and 4 when the Flyers totally outplayed the Sabres in those games in 2011? Or like stealing basically every game en route to the Silver Medal in 2010 for the US?
If the Flyers had a goalie half as good as him, we'd probably have won at least 1 cup by now (Bryz sucks, haha, etc.). Miller is not the problem.

You mean like shutting out the Flyers in games 1 and 4 when the Flyers totally outplayed the Sabres in those games in 2011? Or like stealing basically every game en route to the Silver Medal in 2010 for the US?
If the Flyers had a goalie half as good as him, we'd probably have won at least 1 cup by now (Bryz sucks, haha, etc.). Miller is not the problem.
- jmatchett383

You recognize poopty goalies for sure - that ill give you...

Miller will make amazing saves in a game...then absolutely let in a soft goal. The only proof I have is that I've seen it with my own eyes on many, many occasions. I do remember Rob Ray saying "that's one that Miller would like to have back" a few times this year. Been a Sabres fan since their inception, I rarely post on here, but I had to chime in on this subject because Miller has been infuriating me for years with letting in the soft goals. Let me just say, he's fine otherwise (except for how much money he makes). It's just those soft goals that kill me.

You recognize poopty goalies for sure - that ill give you...
- atlsabsfan

No, they just lack the ability/patience to draft or develop young goalies or defenseman and end up overpaying in FA/trades. Also, you guys lost in 2011 to Brian Boucher, Vezina winner.

Not that it really matters anymore but...


Paul Hamilton ‏@pham1717 3m
Vanek is skating