You lost JVR, Jagr, and replaced them with nobody. Homer spent his life savings on the lottery in the off-season and lost.
- Winning

What are you talking about? Vorchek replaced Jagr who has been stellar this year, over a ppg player and JVR barely played last year and did nothing until the playoffs where he generated many chance but couldn't finish. This team knows they can't win and have basically given up. They know the D sucks and have no confidence in them

i hate to say it, but maybe it is time for a gutting and a total rebuild...thats not saying they wont be better then this year with a gutting.

when i say gut this is my view..

keep-g, jake, read, coots, simmons, gagne, knuble, rinaldo, bschenn, lschenn, coburn,grossman, bryz

trade-kimmo, briere, mez, feds, talbot, hartnell (guys hurt will have to be bought out or traded after the season) guys with ntc+nmc should go to a contender.

not sure thats a gutting but seems doable
- mydoglicks

Wouldn't worry about hartnell. I think his toe is an issue and he's playing frustrated and dumb Bc of it. Which isn't an excuse. Power forwards are streaky by nature and it's real hard to find them.

I think they give him next season before a buyout is done....I think Briere is the buyout this offseason.
- Pyzik

That's my expectation. And if it shakes out that way, I'll look fondly back on Briere's tenure here, and I'll think no less of Bryzgalov. Frankly, the fault in the Bryz situation is on Ed Snider for making an edict to solve the goaltending situation, and forcing the GM to ultimately negotiate against himself.

So the Flyers should completely gut the team, and start over?
- MJL

No ...they have a great young nucleus ....changes ...for sure, but this is hardly a rebuild....a re-model...yes.

i am a big fan of meszaros and think he really brings a style of play that the flyers really need. i guess people are thinking they'd rather put the 4 million toward a player with a better recent health record. still not a buyout candidate in that case imo.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I said this once before.
I read the Jeremy Roenick book and he had one paragraph on a long list of terrible injuries he suffered over his career. It hurt to read it.
He came out of it ok.

That's my expectation. And if it shakes out that way, I'll look fondly back on Briere's tenure here, and I'll think no less of Bryzgalov. Frankly, the fault in the Bryz situation is on Ed Snider for making an edict to solve the goaltending situation, and forcing the GM to ultimately negotiate against himself.
- BulliesPhan87

Agreed....I think once Carter and Richards were traded they should have been in NO rush to sign a guy like Bryz, who I do like, they should have signed a good Vet like craig anderson and groom Bob into something....would it have worked, hopefully, but you never know.

i am a big fan of meszaros and think he really brings a style of play that the flyers really need. i guess people are thinking they'd rather put the 4 million toward a player with a better recent health record. still not a buyout candidate in that case imo.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I don't foresee a buyout for Mesz. Even with his health issues, he's a short term problem, the buyouts will be used for long term considerations.

Agreed....I think once Carter and Richards were traded they should have been in NO rush to sign a guy like Bryz, who I do like, they should have signed a good Vet like craig anderson and groom Bob into something....would it have worked, hopefully, but you never know.
- Pyzik

But Ed Snider is not a patient man.

I keep a close eye on as many Sens rumors as possible, and i have been seeing that Philly might be one of the main parties interested in Bishop. If you were the Fliers GM what would you be willing to offer for Bishop? Would you be willing to do a straight flip of Bishop for Couturier?
- dhamon316

i hate to say it, but maybe it is time for a gutting and a total rebuild...thats not saying they wont be better then this year with a gutting.

when i say gut this is my view..

keep-g, jake, read, coots, simmons, gagne, knuble, rinaldo, bschenn, lschenn, coburn,grossman, bryz

trade-kimmo, briere, mez, feds, talbot, hartnell (guys hurt will have to be bought out or traded after the season) guys with ntc+nmc should go to a contender.

not sure thats a gutting but seems doable
- mydoglicks

I'd keep Talbot and Hartnell and trade Coburn and Knuble. Problem is Knuble I don't think has any trade value at this point. People have to calm down. Blowing up the team is not a smart option, the Offence might need a minor tweak, goaltending is ok, would like a better backup and the D needs a top pairing guy and to part with guys like Gervais foster and Lilja. I'd also consider dropping Gus, he is still very young but I just not seeing any potential in him.

I am not blindly comparing anything. I have watched 90% of the games this season. I watched 90% of the games last season. I see what Bryz has provided for the team. I want nothing more than for the Flyers 20+ years of goaltending issues to be resolved by Bryz!

But if he isnt playing up to the level, i believe he is capable of, i will speak up.

The team in front of him hasn't been fantastic but i have seen enough uneven play from Bryz to know that he isn't playing up to his contract.
- ggunky

When you're just focused on numbers and looking at other Goalies, that's what you're doing. That's fine if you think he can play better. But to not take into account the porous and horrendous team defense played in front of him, when evaluating his play, is not looking at all the variables. You watched 90% of te games, so I'm sure you're aware of the team's defensive issues. I've seen game after game where Bryzgalov has ben the team's best player. Where he has made save after save to keep the team in the game. Then when one of the umpteen shots from a prime scoring position get's past him. It's Bryz should've had that one. And he's not living up to his contract.
You know what I want to see? I want to see this team play a solid team defense and team game, in front of Bryzgalov. And then I beleive a fair evaluation can be made of his play.

What is the usual MO that you anticiapated? You've criticized Homgren and the Organization repeatedly for their lack of patience in developing players. Now you posted that you think the Flyers young player will have to grow up in another Organization because this org has never shown the patience to endure losing to allow for that development And that they should go in a different direction. What gives?
- MJL

fixed

wow it's ugly in here

When you're just focused on numbers and looking at other Goalies, that's what you're doing. That's fine if you think he can play better. But to not take into account the porous and horrendous team defense played in front of him, when evaluating his play, is not looking at all the variables. You watched 90% of te games, so I'm sure you're aware of the team's defensive issues. I've seen game after game where Bryzgalov has ben the team's best player. Where he has made save after save to keep the team in the game. Then when one of the umpteen shots from a prime scoring position get's past him. It's Bryz should've had that one. And he's not living up to his contract.
You know what I want to see? I want to see this team play a solid team defense and team game, in front of Bryzgalov. And then I beleive a fair evaluation can be made of his play.
- MJL

When did i say i am only looking at his number? I didn't. My question was asking you if he is absolved of his numbers, that wasn't me saying he is judged by his numbers alone.

As i stated in my last comment i have seen his uneven play through his 2 seasons with the Flyers, that isnt judged on his numbers alone.

Agreed....I think once Carter and Richards were traded they should have been in NO rush to sign a guy like Bryz, who I do like, they should have signed a good Vet like craig anderson and groom Bob into something....would it have worked, hopefully, but you never know.
- Pyzik

With players like Briere, Pronger, and Timonen on the roster; there was no way the Flyers should have started to rebuild. At that point in time, they had a good mix of young guys and old guys; just not enough of the middle-age guys. I don't mind the Bryz signing and Bob trade. I still think Bryz is the answer for this team. Goalies can be present for: the last run with veterans, a rebuild, and the eventual 2nd run.

wow it's ugly in here
- Marc D

Not really.
There is a consensus. MJL is agreeing with himself that Bryz is good.

But Ed Snider is not a patient man.
- KGBflyers10

See why we havent won a cup since 75 as to his impatience

wow it's ugly in here
- Marc D

whats going to be really ugly is that this sucky season will get us a 6 or 7 pick

With players like Briere, Pronger, and Timonen on the roster; there was no way the Flyers should have started to rebuild. At that point in time, they had a good mix of young guys and old guys; just not enough of the middle-age guys. I don't mind the Bryz signing and Bob trade. I still think Bryz is the answer for this team. Goalies can be present for: the last run with veterans, a rebuild, and the eventual 2nd run.
- steelydan

I didnt mind the signing, but we didnt NEED it....I like Bryz and I think people just need to shut up about him....he is good, but you cant bastardize him for the ineptitude of the rest of the roster...

If I was bryz I would be looking at these guys like "good god you guys a f-in terrible" too

When did i say i am only looking at his number? I didn't. My question was asking you if he is absolved of his numbers, that wasn't me saying he is judged by his numbers alone.

As i stated in my last comment i have seen his uneven play through his 2 seasons with the Flyers, that isnt judged on his numbers alone.
- ggunky

You've been comparing Bryzgalov to Goalies on other teams based on numbers. His uneven play has a lot to do with the play in front of him. Not all of it. There have certainly been games where he hasn't played well. A Goalies SV% and GAA are not acheived independently of the team in front of him.

You've been comparing Bryzgalov to Goalies on other teams based on numbers. His uneven play has a lot to do with the play in front of him. Not all of it. There have certainly been games where he hasn't played well. A Goalies SV% and GAA are not acheived independently of the team in front of him.
- MJL

I did? Please, show me!!!

Not really.
There is a consensus. MJL is agreeing with himself that Bryz is good.
- strongsupporter

I think Bill said it the best, Bryz hasn't been been the problem, but he hasn't been the solution either.

He plays well enough to keep them in the majority of the games, but too often doesn't make the big momentum save.

Not saying this towards you, but a lot of posters and media criticize Bryz for his contract. That really isn't his fault. Watching the 2013 Flyers, I can't think of a goalie in the world who would have turned this season around.

whats going to be really ugly is that this sucky season will get us a 6 or 7 pick
- vejim

It will feel bad, but in reality you never know if the 7th guy might not turn out better then a higher pick.

I disagree. I look at it differently. Its like the Eagles with Donovan McNabb.. you could have one of the best QB's in the game, but if James Trash and Todd Stinkston are your go to guys... you are in trouble.

Bryz was damned from the start.. If we had ANY semblance of team defense.. we wouldnt be having this conversation.
- jak521

He still isn't a top goalie. Far too many weak goals that aren't the teams defense fault. Cant make a 1v1 save. Looks shakey more games than not. Sure the D could be much much better. But Bryz hasn't exactly showed why he was paid that big contract since the beginning of the season. Do you want an Bryz until 2020?

Agreed....I think once Carter and Richards were traded they should have been in NO rush to sign a guy like Bryz, who I do like, they should have signed a good Vet like craig anderson and groom Bob into something....would it have worked, hopefully, but you never know.
- Pyzik

It was not a good move to trade for his rights if they were only going to get him at the inflated market value contract. That's my beef with the Bryz contract. In retrospect, I would've liked to explore an option that didn't require throwing all leverage out the window.