.

I think the Subban relationship with Montreal is very fragile. He is popular with the fans. He is not popular with management, coaches or in the dressing room. If the Canadiens blow up in the playoffs, Subban will be moved. What is a fair price for a team like the Flyers to pay for a talent like Subban?
- spatso

I think this is a bad misread. If Montreal trades Subban based on what is said here, then they're incompetent.

Parise is an excellent two-way forward.
- bradleyc4

and easy on the eyes

I think everyone needs to step back and realize this is not our year. It is time to look to the future, evaluate talent, make trades as needed. The team has talent, it just needs a better blend to make it all work together.

Move players that won't be here next year, get what you can in return, start growing from within better than in the past. I believe last years off season was a sign that you can't buy every player you want. Suter and Parise were NEVER coming here, and its hard to know if Weber was every really interested in coming, he seriously could have known Nashville would have matched anything and just pushed their hand that way.

I believe the worst thing that could have happened for the Flyers is not failing this year, BUT being so good last year. Last year was supposed to be our down year and we exploded out of the gates and won and won, the playoffs against the devils and this year are more in line with who this team is right now. Which isn't a bad thing, it shows what we need and what we need to strive for. We aren't a BAD team, just a team that needs to grow up more.
- Pyzik

anybody else think it's time for Lavy to go? I mean, we have the talent, but the system just isn't working.
- flyersfan51

You could ride out the season with him and hope we come dead last. Then fire him next month. I also wonder if Homer's head is on the block. Not calling for it, but the org is not patient with these kinds of seasons.

Simmonds and Rinaldo show more heart than the rest of their teammates combined.

I think this is a bad misread. If Montreal trades Subban based on what is said here, then they're incompetent.
- MJL

Yes, I'd trade anyone not named Giroux for Subban.

Personally, even right now in hindsight, I would not have brought Jagr back. I don't beleive he's make much a difference in this situation.
- MJL

I couldn't agree more. Jagr is still a good player, and is a well respected veteran in the room. That being said he's not exactly a defensive stalwart. He's also 40+ years old that had a propensity to get injured last year. I had no issue not committing 4+ million in cap space to him.

(frank)in' A, man
- Jsaquella

Gotta be a cousin of the dudes

Lots of talk about drafting Jones or Nurse...

Who was the last top notch Dman the Flyers have developed???

Big problems for this org.
- flyguy12

Not only that, but how long before they're really ready to make a difference, even if they can develop them?

Not bringing back Carle and Jagr, is not the reason why this team is in the mess it's in. And drafting Jones or any other defenseman in the Draft, isn't the solution either. Not that wouldn't help by adding a future peice. But this team needs a radical wholesale change in how it plays the game. Not a radical change in it's roster. It should be a playoff team. It is not. Now lookng towards the missing peices that it's going to need to be a Cup contender, is a separate conversation from what ails this team currently.

Yes, I'd trade anyone not named Giroux for Subban.
- bradleyc4

I'd personally add Couturier to that list.

You could ride out the season with him and hope we come dead last. Then fire him next month. I also wonder if Homer's head is on the block. Not calling for it, but the org is not patient with these kinds of seasons.
- Hextall271

I seriously doubt homers job is on the line, he stepped in during 0607 and rebuilt that poop mess and has led teams to the conference finals and a cup final. He's also vvery close to sniders son #16.

Too many to realistically expect to compete for a cup this year. Actually, we should probably give Homer some credit for not making a panic trade after his 0 fer free agency.
- TheGreat28

I don't think anyone expected a serious Cup contender out of this team. But to expect a playoff team, a 5-8 seed was not expecting too much.

This is a group of players with talent. There are player that are underperforming. There are players that are making really horrible decisions. But there's a lot of players that can reasonably be expected to rebound and return to their past levels of play.

They need changes, but the biggest changes need to come from within. The younger players have to continue to work hard and use the experience of this season get them to where they can be.

Veterans like Hartnell and Coburn are fully capable of returning to form. I don't know if Hartnell's issues are from returning while still hurt or what, but he's capable of returning to form. Coburn can be outstanding as part of a good pair. He's not an anchor type defenseman. But with a good partner, Coburn can thrive.

I feel that a lot of players were used wrong, but at the same time the execution wasn't there. They need, regardless of system, another defenseman, and a good one. They need a good, solid veteran center who can win faceoffs and play a defensive role. They need guys like Hartnell to rebound and they need guys like Simmonds to be more consistent and provide some offense at 5 on 5.

Simmonds and Rinaldo show more heart than the rest of their teammates combined.
- FlyerGuy

agreed

What are the prices of Briere, Hartnell, Talbot and L Shenn?

To me those guys are not core guys moving forward for the Flyers and could get you some good picks/prospects to rebuild with. Take a few seasons of growing pains and don't give up on Coutourier, Simmonds, Giroux or Vorachek. These guys will be studs for you guys for a long time!

You D is a huge problem though. Personally, I'd love the Sens to trade a couple of our D prospects for Briere or if possible Coutourier, but that would have to be a very expensive package.

Ideally, Sens 1st 2013, Weircoch and Da Costa for Coutourier... He would look great with Zibby and Silf

You could ride out the season with him and hope we come dead last. Then fire him next month. I also wonder if Homer's head is on the block. Not calling for it, but the org is not patient with these kinds of seasons.
- Hextall271

yeah, i want a top 3 pick

What are the prices of Briere, Hartnell, Talbot and L Shenn?

To me those guys are not core guys moving forward for the Flyers and could get you some good picks/prospects to rebuild with. Take a few seasons of growing pains and don't give up on Coutourier, Simmonds, Giroux or Vorachek. These guys will be studs for you guys for a long time!

You D is a huge problem though. Personally, I'd love the Sens to trade a couple of our D prospects for Briere or if possible Coutourier, but that would have to be a very expensive package.

Ideally, Sens 1st 2013, Weircoch and Da Costa for Coutourier... He would look great with Zibby and Silf
- riceroni

you can have briere for one of those defensive prospects. ty bye

the only way i trade coburn is for a young puck moving defenseman prospect (must be good) and a pick
- Philly1980

Bill places blame on everyone... However, I think its more of Homer and Lavy not being on the same page. If Lavy had the right personnel, they'd be doing better then now. However, If Homer's squad were playing a different system (other than Lavy's), they'd be doing better than now.

So, I can't look at trading anyone - until Homer and Lavy sort this out. Coburn is a good defenseman that I'm happy with - he can play in Lavy's system / he's not the problem. Yet, if the right trade came along, I wouldn't care if we shipped him off.

Also, everyone seems to think prospects are the solution. Sure, if you want to wait a few years to win. Prospects (especially defense and goalies) need time. A rookie forward blends in more and their mistakes are not noticed. So, if you want to win next year - UFA or a trade is the only way.

The Pheonix teams he played on didn't have an All Star defense. They played well as a team defensively. Unlike this team.
- MJL

Boom. Bryz is not the problem here.

What are the prices of Briere, Hartnell, Talbot and L Shenn?

To me those guys are not core guys moving forward for the Flyers and could get you some good picks/prospects to rebuild with. Take a few seasons of growing pains and don't give up on Coutourier, Simmonds, Giroux or Vorachek. These guys will be studs for you guys for a long time!

You D is a huge problem though. Personally, I'd love the Sens to trade a couple of our D prospects for Briere or if possible Coutourier, but that would have to be a very expensive package.

Ideally, Sens 1st 2013, Weircoch and Da Costa for Coutourier... He would look great with Zibby and Silf
- riceroni

Luke Schenn is a core guy - I would not trade him.

I'd personally add Couturier to that list.
- MJL

I used to feel that way. I value Couturier very highly, especially from a defensive standpoint. His ability to take defensive zone draws, play the pivot on the top PK unit and generally help alleviate those duties from Giroux are huge.

And his overall potential is to add 50-70 points/season on top of that eventually.

But I also feel like you can find defensive specialists to plug in, especially if you have quality offensive centers on the roster already like Giroux, B. Schenn (potential) and Briere (fading).

If you can acquire a defenseman as talented, both offensively and defensively, as Subban I would trade Couturier for him.

Also, everyone seems to think prospects are the solution. Sure, if you want to wait a few years to win. Prospects (especially defense and goalies) need time. A rookie forward blends in more and their mistakes are not noticed. So, if you want to win next year - UFA or a trade is the only way.
- leon neon

If waiting is what it takes, I'm cool with that

I think with the cap going down next year there won't be much opportunity to catch a big fish. Sorry to say it for PL because I like the guy, but since major player moves probably aren't in the cards a new coach is in order here. I hope they choose wisely. This team does have a lot of guys with upside potential and who should be playing better than they are this year quite frankly. They need to find the coach who can work with this group because it's probably largely the same group we'll see next season.

Boom. Bryz is not the problem here.
- Scoob

I agree he's not the problem per say, but taking into terms his contract is he the solution? That is TBD imo.

What are the prices of Briere, Hartnell, Talbot and L Shenn?

To me those guys are not core guys moving forward for the Flyers and could get you some good picks/prospects to rebuild with. Take a few seasons of growing pains and don't give up on Coutourier, Simmonds, Giroux or Vorachek. These guys will be studs for you guys for a long time!

You D is a huge problem though. Personally, I'd love the Sens to trade a couple of our D prospects for Briere or if possible Coutourier, but that would have to be a very expensive package.

Ideally, Sens 1st 2013, Weircoch and Da Costa for Coutourier... He would look great with Zibby and Silf
- riceroni

Luke Schenn has played pretty well for the Flyers. He's had some rough spots. He's learning to not chase the hits as much and his skating and passing have not been an issue. I think he picked up a lot of bad habits and they need to be fixed, but the tools are there.

I have no issue in moving Briere, if at all possible. Hartnell's a wild card, because he got hurt early and then returned a couple weeks before schedule. I really feel that he, and others, are playing with injuries that are limiting them. I'd listen to offers for Hartnell and Talbot, but wouldn't be in a major hurry to move them.

I like the package you propose, but for Couturier, I'd want a 20 minute a night, all situations defenseman that can play at a high level. I realize that's a lot, but I feel couturier has been criminally misused this year

Also, everyone seems to think prospects are the solution. Sure, if you want to wait a few years to win. Prospects (especially defense and goalies) need time. A rookie forward blends in more and their mistakes are not noticed.
- leon neon

Exactly. Prospects are cute and all but they aren't the answer to the near-term issues. Sure, use your picks wisely, but nobody should expect that whoever is drafted this season will help one iota in the next 2-3 years.