If the Flyers have to have a few seasons of not too great hockey, to finally instill a culture of consistent hard work, and smart play I am fine with that.

It will take a mixture of smart drafting, and better evaluating FA.

Replacing players isnt always easy, but I am willing to accept it might not happen overnight. I can no longer accept guys who are expected to provide big roles on the team, who are expected to be veterans, are paid as such, provide such inconsistency. Im done with it to be honest.

I dont think management will be willing to have a few years to build up a right culture and identity, but I think its what needs to be done. Talent is for nothing, if it isnt consistent.
- flyer_nutter

I'm just saying you can build and have success while developing and drafting. Look at the Devils and Red Wings. They draft fairly well, develop well and have sustained success.

If you change things and bring back the accountability, dicispline and responsible play, and have guys that don't buy in, then you work out deals to move them. You don't just dump them off and suck for a few years if you can be a decent team and still build smartly.

Fair, and I know that sounds INSANE for people not in the Toronto area, or who watch Toronto games, but he's been able to get away with that.

Each line does their thing. Each line is complemented as best as possible, and their overall toughness really diminishes/hides their issues, whether with speed or talent, or whatever. Their toughness has allowed them win games that in previous years Toronto wouldn't have won. It's basically using their pieces to the max efficiency and role.
- Flyers_V88

If the Leafs played the Flyers they would beat them by taking them to the boards, using their speed to expose the D and capitalizing on glorious giveaways caused by stupid mistakes with the puck. The book is out on this team.

Fair, and I know that sounds INSANE for people not in the Toronto area, or who watch Toronto games, but he's been able to get away with that.

Each line does their thing. Each line is complemented as best as possible, and their overall toughness really diminishes/hides their issues, whether with speed or talent, or whatever. Their toughness has allowed them win games that in previous years Toronto wouldn't have won. It's basically using their pieces to the max efficiency and role.
- Flyers_V88

He does have lines that definitely complement one andother, and the team plays really disciplined hockey when they are on their game.

All four of them are gone. The novacain is finally wearing off. Kinda scared about that because that means I'll need the next dosage of pain relief but can't take it until 6 PM since I took the first one at noon.

Thanks for asking!
- Flyskippy

All four wisdom teeth? I had that done on March 8th. When I went back for my follow-up last week the doc told me he didn't need to go to the gym that day because he got his workout trying to get the teeth out of my bone. Thank goodness for anesthesia because I felt nothing and remember nothing.

my favorite play from Coburn is when he takes the puck from behind the net, and with 3 or 4 beautiful strides he's headed out of the defensive zone ... at which point, instead of continuing up the ice, he promptly passes it to a forward who then dumps the puck into the offensive zone. I just don't get this approach.

- FlyerGuy

Did you like how he was caught from behind as he was skating it up the ice at our own blue line? Something is off with him he is in la la land

my favorite play from Coburn is when he takes the puck from behind the net, and with 3 or 4 beautiful strides he's headed out of the defensive zone ... at which point, instead of continuing up the ice, he promptly passes it to a forward who then dumps the puck into the offensive zone. I just don't get this approach.

- FlyerGuy

or he passes into the skates of his D partner, who is standing flat-footed back on the defensive dot, after which the puck goes into corner, the dmen play reverse the puck for 29 seconds, the forwards do nothing, and the other team steals the puck and keeps it in the zone for the next minute? he's especially adept at that play in the second period.

lol. If he wants a Cup, he needs to selectively draft/trade/sign players who we are need of, and who can help form an identity of sorts. the PERFECT team to look at right now is Toronto. On paper, I would argue they're the same as us, if not slightly less in terms of on-paper talent. But, what have they done to maximize their potential? Created an identity and brought in a lot of toughness and guys who can play roles. As well, Carlyle DOES NOT use ANY of their players in situations they don't have the talent for, or do as much line shuffling as Lavi.

If Toronto can do it, so can we.
- Flyers_V88

I think it's just a little early to be looking at Toronto as the model of organizational excellence. Just a little.

Well put Bill. It was embarassing to be a Flyers fan last night. Outside of Simmonds,Voracek and Giroux and Timonen, the core players were invisible last night. The only thing left to look forward to at this point is the draft lottery.
- BiggE

+1

If the Leafs played the Flyers they would beat them by taking them to the boards, using their speed to expose the D and capitalizing on glorious giveaways caused by stupid mistakes with the puck. The book is out on this team.
- flyer_nutter

For sure, I agree. But I think that's because TO has done a reasonable job getting guys who play certain styles and roles on their team. Creating an identity. Say what you want, but Carlyle HAS squeezed blood from the proverbial Toronto rock. He's gotten results with almost no all-star power...

Their D, when you look at it, isn't better than ours at all really.

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Kostka-Franson
Gardiner-Fraser

I would say aside from Gardiner, that's exactly on pace with that the Flyers call their D right now. Only difference, Carlye is pressing all the right buttons and is using guys to their level of play.

my favorite play from Coburn is when he takes the puck from behind the net, and with 3 or 4 beautiful strides he's headed out of the defensive zone ... at which point, instead of continuing up the ice, he promptly passes it to a forward who then dumps the puck into the offensive zone. I just don't get this approach.

- FlyerGuy

Let players make plays. I'm not saying he should do what he wants and get out of position or take risks all the time but at some point you have to let a puck moving defenseman carry the puck.

I'm just saying you can build and have success while developing and drafting. Look at the Devils and Red Wings. They draft fairly well, develop well and have sustained success.

If you change things and bring back the accountability, dicispline and responsible play, and have guys that don't buy in, then you work out deals to move them. You don't just dump them off and suck for a few years if you can be a decent team and still build smartly.
- Jsaquella

Im sort of at the point where I dont want that poop around the young kids anymore, but I get the idea.

I do think you can get some pieces for Hartnell/Coburn. I do not think you are getting as much as is suggested on here sometimes.

I think it's just a little early to be looking at Toronto as the model of organizational excellence. Just a little.
- BulliesPhan87

Oh no, no... I didn't mean it like that. I was just pointing out that if TO can go from bottom-feeder in the East to playoff team, and a decent team at that, with the pices they have, we can do it to.

They didn't break the bank. They didn't make a massive multi-piece trade. They didn't get a first overall pick. All they're doing is using the right type of guys and have brought in toughness I can only recall the Flyers having pre-2004...

Did you like how he was caught from behind as he was skating it up the ice at our own blue line? Something is off with him he is in la la land
- Just5

yeah ... I remember a couple times when one of the Flyers were caught from behind last night. It seems to happen a lot.

It's like they have no URGENCY with the puck. Everything takes an extra second or two with them ... meanwhile the other team makes good, quick decisions with the puck.

Im sort of at the point where I dont want that poop around the young kids anymore, but I get the idea.

I do think you can get some pieces for Hartnell/Coburn. I do not think you are getting as much as is suggested on here sometimes.
- flyer_nutter

Coburn would net a 1st rounder no question. So many teams are looking for help on defense and the market is fantastic with so many teams still in it.

True, but while watching that draft live, I was puzzled that they did not take him since he was a defenseman and was not expceted to last that long.

Now, if you factor in last year, sure I was happy. You have to keep in mind that I'm still upset that we picked Mike Ricci instead of Jagr!!
- NJFlyer42

love the old Philly Blazers logo....remember the ice is right?

Frank Seravalli
@DNFlyers
Andrej Meszaros is out indefinitely again with a shoulder injury suffered last night. Have to wonder if his season is indeed over.

In regards to the benching and limited TOI for Sean Couturier in the latter part of the season, I recall him playing quite regularly in the first 20 games and making horrible decisions in transition without any repercussions from the coaching staff.

I distinctly remember seeing him fail to get the puck in deep and get poked checked at the opposition's blue line 2-3 times a game. And I wondered why he wasn't getting crap for it. Maybe he was, but it didn't affect what line he played on or his playing time.

I saw a very bad habit forming. Selfish end to end rush attempts that became turnovers and then transition goals. And he just kept doing it. Over and over. No sign of the savviness and poise he displayed in his rookie season.

And because of not addressing it when it first cropped up, they find themselves potentially with a head case, or even worse, having to trade him for a much lower value than he would have received after his post-Malkin domination in last year's playoffs. A hat trick in the playoffs, while shutting down one of the best player's in the world in Malkin. Were we being duped, or is this guy a stud???

As far as Giroux is concerned, he did have offseason surgery on both of his wrists. Last time I checked, those were pretty important in hockey. Think he's got some issues there...? Stick handling and playmaking is his game, no?

For sure, I agree. But I think that's because TO has done a reasonable job getting guys who play certain styles and roles on their team. Creating an identity. Say what you want, but Carlyle HAS squeezed blood from the proverbial Toronto rock. He's gotten results with almost no all-star power...

Their D, when you look at it, isn't better than ours at all really.

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Kostka-Franson
Gardiner-Fraser

I would say aside from Gardiner, that's exactly on pace with that the Flyers call their D right now. Only difference, Carlye is pressing all the right buttons and is using guys to their level of play.
- Flyers_V88

I wouldnt say the Flyers D is hideous. At the same time you having Gervais playing a regular shift all season because there is nobody better to replace him. He has on most nights been pretty damn brutal in his own end. Timonen is declining, and Meszaros hopefully gets healthy again for a longer period. Grossman and Schenn have been alright defensively but show no creativity in getting the puck up the ice.

The biggest problem with the Flyer D to me is the stupidity. Starting with Coburn and Gervais. The forwards usually cause more problems than helping, so that isnt too hot either.

Frank Seravalli
@DNFlyers
Andrej Meszaros is out indefinitely again with a shoulder injury suffered last night. Have to wonder if his season is indeed over.
- opeth_pa

time to shut him down.

Frank Seravalli
@DNFlyers
Andrej Meszaros is out indefinitely again with a shoulder injury suffered last night. Have to wonder if his season is indeed over.
- opeth_pa

inevitable.

my favorite play from Coburn is when he takes the puck from behind the net, and with 3 or 4 beautiful strides he's headed out of the defensive zone ... at which point, instead of continuing up the ice, he promptly passes it to a forward who then dumps the puck into the offensive zone. I just don't get this approach.

- FlyerGuy

nothing beautiful about Coburn this year

It could be worse, how awesome would it have been if this was the year Philly was hosting the draft after a season like this, add in a Pens Cup run and hearing 28 times each team congratulate them.

Frank Seravalli
@DNFlyers
Andrej Meszaros is out indefinitely again with a shoulder injury suffered last night. Have to wonder if his season is indeed over.
- opeth_pa

I wanted Mez to have a bigger role on the team next season, at this point I dont think he can be expected to stay healthy.

time to shut him down.
- wilsonecho91

time to get rid of him

Coburn would net a 1st rounder no question. So many teams are looking for help on defense and the market is fantastic with so many teams still in it.
- stveshdy

Coburn would not net a 1st based on his play this year... but somebody may overpay based on past play and his physical skill set.