I'll be willing to call it a stalemate at this point if you're agreeable.

I see your points and they are valid as always.
- 77rams

I see yours as well, and agree with them. I just hate how the coach is responding to the poor play. Thats' the difference between us...But I'll agree to disagree.

How is it a lot bigger?

It seems like every aspect of Coot's play has regressed. He hasn't done anything that would warrant a belief that if he were to be moved up with scoring wingers or given more responsibilities, he'd be more productive.

His skating hasn't markedly improved. His passing is below average. His finishing touch is below average. His decision making with the puck has slipped noticeably. And it was commented earlier that his defensive game has regressed somewhat as well.

That doesn't sound like a player who should be given a larger role. That sounds like a 20 year old who should be honing his skills in the "A".
- 77rams

I think that even his defensive game has regressed, says it all. I don't want to give him a larger role. I want to give him a lesser role.

I'm fine with bringing him along slowly, and would be fine if he's in the AHL.

But the kid looks terrified with the puck on his stick when he has to make a quick decision. He looks like he's so afraid of making a mistake, that it's causing mistakes.

But when he makes a mistakes and then misses the next two shifts, that's the coach injuring his development. If the current coach can't grasp that, they should send him to the AHL where he'll be coached by a guy interested in his long term prospects as a player, rather than one trying to keep his job another week.
- Jsaquella

I think the biggest thing he needs is decent and consistent linemates.

Throw him on a 3rd line with Talbot and Gagne and leave it at that. Play him on regular shifts, but limit his PK time because he seems lost out there.

At the same time, not too many of the veterans here have been good role models this season.

Unfortunately I dont see Lava playing Coots more. The team dug themselves into a huge hole at the start, and with management's impatience/desire to win at any cost Lava will go with those who he believes have best produced in the past. Blame all round.

- Flyskippy

Didn't you have dental surgery today? How's the toofer?

Lottery Update:

Colorado (26 pts) at Calgary (28 pts)
Big game tonight for lottery implications, a win by Colorado will have the Flyers in a tie for 29th place!

Also on the docket
Phoenix at Minnesota.... Lets go Yotes!

Not to discredit the whole post, which I read through and agree with for the most part, but that last part is huge.

The defense corps is less of a problem than team defense. They are horrendous in their own end, they waste energy that could be used on the attack running around with no discipline and get worn down, then they seem dead at the end of the night.
- Jsaquella

I think Lavi is toast, and hopefully they choose the next guy very carefully.

It is going to be a long painful process I think. I don't see them bouncing back next season or even the year after as true contenders. Even with a new system it will take a while.

I don't envy Homer right now.

Depending on how high, it may be tough. I can't see a team with a shot to pick in the top 5 giving up a first for Coburn. However I could see a bubble team like Dallas, San Jose, Carolina or perhaps even the Islanders making that deal. I would be very happy with getting a pick anywhere between 10-15 for Coburn. Add that pick to a most likely top 6 pick which they will already have and the Flyers now have the potential to draft a top forward and a top defenseman in this draft.
- BiggE

I personally would need a defenseman in return for Coburn. Whether it would be a comparable player of experience and age. Or a younger NHL ready defenseman. Unless it's a very high first round pick, I wouldn't trade him for a draft pick. The defense is already thin.

Snider's likely to fire him anyway. His plan to rely on the veterans isn't working, so where is the harm to unleash the kids?
- Jsaquella

At this stage I dont know how bad I want to unleash the kids. I said a few days back I'd want to but I go back and forth a bit on it.

At this stage, I almost want to see them get smaller, but regular roles. To a degree I get the struggles of Coots. Brayden Schenn however annoys the hell out of me season because he has been given a lot more opportunities than Coots. Have to remind myself he is a young player.

I think Lavi is toast, and hopefully they choose the next guy very carefully.

It is going to be a long painful process I think. I don't see them bouncing back next season or even the year after as true contenders. Even with a new system it will take a while.

I don't envy Homer right now.
- Marc D

I think that they can turn this thing around in 2 or 3 years, if they don't get stupid and make a bunch of panic moves. That's largely on snider.

Conor Hassard ‏@C_Hassard 23s
Went through all the Flyers game highlights from this season. 21 out of 98 goals they've allowed have come from odd-man chances/breakaways.
- Jsaquella

That seems low. I wonder how many have come from interceptions just inside their blueline, causing odd-man chances down low, but not considered a rush?

I think the biggest thing he needs is decent and consistent linemates.

Throw him on a 3rd line with Talbot and Gagne and leave it at that. Play him on regular shifts, but limit his PK time because he seems lost out there.

At the same time, not too many of the veterans here have been good role models this season.

Unfortunately I dont see Lava playing Coots more. The team dug themselves into a huge hole at the start, and with management's impatience/desire to win at any cost Lava will go with those who he believes have best produced in the past. Blame all round.
- flyer_nutter

This is exactly right.

Especially if they want to use him in shut down role.

I love Rinaldo and his spirit/energy, but he is lost in the defensive zone also.
Putting him with Couts against the Nash line over and over is a recipe for disaster.

Lottery Update:

Colorado (26 pts) at Calgary (28 pts)
Big game tonight for lottery implications, a win by Colorado will have the Flyers in a tie for 29th place!

Also on the docket
Phoenix at Minnesota.... Lets go Yotes!
- Just5

As much as I would like a top pick, I would prefer they somehow go on a tear, or at least play better these last few games.

I dont like ending a season with the way they are playing now, because a rough start next year could just bring back emotions of this year. I cant root for the Flyers to lose, no matter what.

At this stage I dont know how bad I want to unleash the kids. I said a few days back I'd want to but I go back and forth a bit on it.

At this stage, I almost want to see them get smaller, but regular roles. To a degree I get the struggles of Coots. Brayden Schenn however annoys the hell out of me season because he has been given a lot more opportunities than Coots. Have to remind myself he is a young player.
- flyer_nutter

Before Briere landed on his line, Schenn and Simmonds were going great. As soon as Briere landed on that line, they stopped generating chances, stopped being as physical and as energetic...it was like they got the life sucked out.

I'm not sure what other role he could play. He's certainly showed no glimpses of an offensive game.

In hindsight, the best move may have been to send him to the Phantoms to work on his skating and on his scoring touch.
- 77rams

He's shown no glimpse of an offensive game being used for a high amount of defensive zone starts. Playing against top offensive competition. And playing with lesser talented offensive players on the team.
I personally don't see a big issue with his skating.

Couple quick thoughts:
On Couts: We have to keep in mind that he was not expected to make the team LY, let alone make the impact he did as a rookie defensively and on the PK. Clearly he’s had a tough second year w/lofty expectations now upon him. The question is who is the real Sean Couturier? The kid that showed maturity and hockey sense beyond his years LY or the kid that’s lost & has zero confidence this year? I’m willing to bet it’s the rookie version and the Flyers should remain patient. The club really lacks players w/strong hockey sense and I believe he has it (despite some of his mind numbing mistakes this year) and I do think he has the skills/hands to be a 20 goal scorer as well. He needs to go to the net and continue to get stronger on the puck. Confidence and points will come. I’d rather see the Flyers pack it in this year and Couts see double his ice time. Hell, I’d put him back on the PP, not to win the game but to jump start him for next year.

Which leads to my second thought…

This team is soft. On the walls, on the puck, standing up for teammates. They are soft. Consistently taken off the puck and off their skates at times. I’m thinking about starting a BraydenSchenn down charity before he gets to it. This kid and a lot of the team needs to be harder to play against.

@HackswithHaggs: According to source w/knowledge of talks, call was made between BOS/PHI abt Briere. Caron & a pick mentioned, but was scuttled by concussion

NOOOOOOOO

I see yours as well, and agree with them. I just hate how the coach is responding to the poor play. Thats' the difference between us...But I'll agree to disagree.
- Jsaquella

I'm sure once the team is "mathematically" eliminated, we'll see the hopefuls get an expanded role. Maybe their sphincters will all relax a bit and they'll pleasantly surprise us.

I think that they can turn this thing around in 2 or 3 years, if they don't get stupid and make a bunch of panic moves. That's largely on snider.
- Jsaquella

Why Snider and not Homer?

3 years is a reasonable window.

I see next year and maybe the next two as struggle years, even with a new coach/system.

Didn't you have dental surgery today? How's the toofer?
- 77rams

All four of them are gone. The novacain is finally wearing off. Kinda scared about that because that means I'll need the next dosage of pain relief but can't take it until 6 PM since I took the first one at noon.

Thanks for asking!

This is exactly right.

Especially if they want to use him in shut down role.

I love Rinaldo and his spirit/energy, but he is lost in the defensive zone also.
Putting him with Couts against the Nash line over and over is a recipe for disaster.
- Marc D

Its impatience, panic and trying to always win without looking at the overall make-up of the team, or far enough down the road.

That trend, starts at the top of the organization and has trickled its way down everywhere. Its a big summer for Holmgren, and as much as I want them to be patient, I also dont want them to just stand pat. The poop we have seen this season, I dont want to see again. I understand the growing pains of kids, but its not the kids at fault this year.

Lottery Update:

Colorado (26 pts) at Calgary (28 pts)
Big game tonight for lottery implications, a win by Colorado will have the Flyers in a tie for 29th place!

Also on the docket
Phoenix at Minnesota.... Lets go Yotes!
- Just5

It doesn't matter.
It's gonna come down to those damn ping pong balls again

Get well soon Danny...

I can't, for one minute, believe he hasn't been given as much positive reinforcement from the coaching staff that they could give. He just might not be ready to step in for Briere.

You may only compound his confidence by placing him in a situation that he hasn't a chance of succeeding in. Like everyone else on this board, I don't know what running through his head.

I also cannot believe the entire coaching staff hasn't discussed and decided whether the option of moving Coots up into a more offensive role at this time would benefit him in the long haul. I'm deciding, maybe wrongly, to accept their judgement on this.
- 77rams

I don't think anyone is saying that he hasn't been given positive reinforcement form the Coaching staff. He is clearly struggling. Why not try it out and see what happens? What do you have to lose. I think putting him in a different role would be like taking a mack truck off his shoulders.

Before Briere landed on his line, Schenn and Simmonds were going great. As soon as Briere landed on that line, they stopped generating chances, stopped being as physical and as energetic...it was like they got the life sucked out.
- Jsaquella

Again though, to me its not that crazy to go with a guy like Briere over Coots. I dont agree with it, but this organization would never accept a developmental year.

Lava went with the guy who has been proven to produce better in the past. In hindsight I dont agree either, but I can see the reasoning. I fully believe management still thought they could win it all this season, and would not have been willing to "play the kids more" after 10 games in.

That said, I was always a believer in bringing along a player slowly - like the Devils and Detroit do with their prospects. There's more of a chance to ruin a player by giving him too much responsibility too soon that by being patient with him.
- 77rams

The I'm not sure why you're disagreeing. Both Jsaq and I are suggesting taking some responsibility off of him.