Oh, no question. GM of an NHL franchise must age one similarly to being president of the US. (Ok, being dramatic there. Sorry.)
- Flyskippy

It's true, to a point. Just saying that any blame levied at Holmgren needs to be tempered by the fact that he has his hands tied to at least some extent.

Nah, I want to go with Spott or that other coach ob18 mentioned whose name has disappeared from my mind... Ugh.
- Flyskippy

Greg Ireland.

Why not?
- TheGreat28

I really like Beaulieu's potential, but I wouldn't give up Couturier for him.

It's true, to a point. Just saying that any blame levied at Holmgren needs to be tempered by the fact that he has his hands tied to at least some extent.
- Jsaquella

True, but he's created some of his own monsters with some of the long-term contracts (Briere, Pronger, Timonen, etc.). But, as bad as the Briere contract looks right now, it looked great for a few years, and was definitely better than the Gomez and Drury contracts.

I really like Beaulieu's potential, but I wouldn't give up Couturier for him.
- bradleyc4

Straight-up? No. But throw in Thrower and Ellis for example, and you have a potential 1/2 with Beaulieu, 3/4 with Ellis, and 3/4 with Thrower. Say 2 of the 3 pan out, that's not bad. Then you add either of the wingers, and it's a nice package.

The only downside for the Flyers is that it's a 2/3 year plan. Obviously always a little risk with prospects too.

Canadiens give up a bit but have a really good farm system, and would still keep Tinordi. Plus they give up a little more because at least one of the prospects won't pan out.

How about this as a deadline deal?

To Montreal: Couturier, Talbot
To Philly: Beaulieu, 3 out of the following (Collberg, Kristo, Thrower or Ellis)

A pick or marginal player either way to balance it out. Maybe a Harry Z.

Gives Montreal some ammu against Pittsburgh's arms buildup, and as a plus their Francs with long-term cost certainty. Montreal would have a solid chance with Coots and Max.

Flyers get much top pair potential in Beaulieu and some other solid prospects, especially in D.
- TheGreat28

I'm not a huge fan of that. Beaulieu has a lot of potential, but he's a project and the Flyers can get a Nurse or Pulock in the draft and keep Couturier.

I'd have zero qualms about trading Talbot for a couple of those kids, though

True, but he's created some of his own monsters with some of the long-term contracts (Briere, Pronger, Timonen, etc.). But, as bad as the Briere contract looks right now, it looked great for a few years, and was definitely better than the Gomez and Drury contracts.
- jmatchett

That's the market these days. Every team has a few "bad" contracts. None of them have really come back to bite. Timonen's is over this year and he has remained effective throughout, Pronger had the freak accident and Briere can be bought out or maybe even traded.

True, but he's created some of his own monsters with some of the long-term contracts (Briere, Pronger, Timonen, etc.). But, as bad as the Briere contract looks right now, it looked great for a few years, and was definitely better than the Gomez and Drury contracts.
- jmatchett

You think Snider had no hand in those deals? He had to sign off on them

The Timonen deal has been a good one thus far and so has the Briere deal. It's not as good now that they have a glut of players that are forcing Briere to a wing where he's less effective.

Also, they can easily buy out Briere and his deal is no longer a big factor

I'm not a huge fan of that. Beaulieu has a lot of potential, but he's a project and the Flyers can get a Nurse or Pulock in the draft and keep Couturier.

I'd have zero qualms about trading Talbot for a couple of those kids, though
- Jsaquella

Fair enough. My thought process is that we end up with a top forward (Drouin, if I'm allowed to dream) and Beaulieu, instead of Jones/Couturier. And let's say Collberg, Ellis and Thrower....3 years from now when G and others hit their peak you'd be in great shape.

EDIT: With Laughton in the 3rd C spot instead of Coots.
With Stolarz as your backstop

But Flyers wouldn't have that kind of patience anyhow

Fair enough. My thought process is that we end up with a top forward (Drouin, if I'm allowed to dream) and Beaulieu, instead of Jones/Couturier. And let's say Collberg, Ellis and Thrower....3 years from now when G and others hit their peak you'd be in great shape.

With Stolarz as your backstop

But Flyers wouldn't have that kind of patience anyhow
- TheGreat28

It's not an awful idea at all. And it can be explored if they end up with Drouin or MacKinnon at a later date. Both Couturier and Talbot remain under the Flyers control.

You think Snider had no hand in those deals? He had to sign off on them

The Timonen deal has been a good one thus far and so has the Briere deal. It's not as good now that they have a glut of players that are forcing Briere to a wing where he's less effective.

Also, they can easily buy out Briere and his deal is no longer a big factor
- Jsaquella

I'm not saying any of them are bad (until Briere this season). I'm just saying that they were deals that he orchestrated. And I'd do them all again if I had to, and I'm sure Snider may have done some whispering in his ear to an extent. I'm just saying, in the end, as the GM, he is the one talking to agents on the phone and bringing the numbers back for ownership's approval. Now that the deals are reaching their end of their line (or, in Pronger's case, not), they've put him in a bit of a bind.

I think the intent was to go all-in like Chicago did and deal with the consequences after winning a Cup. Just didn't quite work out that way.

It's not an awful idea at all. And it can be explored if they end up with Drouin or MacKinnon at a later date. Both Couturier and Talbot remain under the Flyers control.
- Jsaquella

Say the Flyers end with the 2nd pick... should they try to move up and get Jones, or take MacKinnon and go from there?

Just looking at the Devils/Sens box score. Devils dominate the game outshoot Sens 34-14 and Ottawa takes the two points, playing their third goalie. What an embarrassment of riches the Sens have in between the pipes.

It's going to be awesome when Lamoriello gets one of them to replace Brodeur.

I'm not saying any of them are bad (until Briere this season). I'm just saying that they were deals that he orchestrated. And I'd do them all again if I had to, and I'm sure Snider may have done some whispering in his ear to an extent. I'm just saying, in the end, as the GM, he is the one talking to agents on the phone and bringing the numbers back for ownership's approval. Now that the deals are reaching their end of their line (or, in Pronger's case, not), they've put him in a bit of a bind.

I think the intent was to go all-in like Chicago did and deal with the consequences after winning a Cup. Just didn't quite work out that way.
- jmatchett

Absolutely. He had no intention of having to replace Pronger before the summer of 2015(when salary drops dramatically). We can blame him for thinking it wasn't an over 35 deal on that, but Pronger playing for longer than he did was a fair expectation.

Say the Flyers end with the 2nd pick... should they try to move up and get Jones, or take MacKinnon and go from there?
- jak521

I wouldn't trade up for Jones. Too much of a risk. Take MacKinnon and (eventually) move a forward for a defenseman.

Wait, how'd you figure out I was Matt Carle?
- NickTheKid87

I thought you were the new pope

Not often you see a young-ish two-way top-six forward get offered up for free... he owns the shootout too...
- Tomahawk

Decent cap hit next year too. 3 million. If I was a team like the Jackets I would be all over him.

Greg Ireland.
- Jsaquella

And that's the other name I forgot.

It's not an awful idea at all. And it can be explored if they end up with Drouin or MacKinnon at a later date. Both Couturier and Talbot remain under the Flyers control.
- Jsaquella

Good point. Safer for the Flyers to wait until the draft to ensure high-end replacement forward. I was thinking that you'd be more likely to get more out of Montreal at deadline given their chances this year, and with Pens getting Morrow and Iginla.

But, splicing this with your other thread, no way Snider waits out the next year or two unless that new bride of his has some serious fountain of youth skillz.

I wouldn't trade up for Jones. Too much of a risk. Take MacKinnon and (eventually) move a forward for a defenseman.
- bradleyc4

I just think Jones in O&B is a very tempting thought.. then again, all three of them have the potential to be veryyy good players.

I wouldn't trade up for Jones. Too much of a risk. Take MacKinnon and (eventually) move a forward for a defenseman.
- bradleyc4

Also very possible that the team that hold the first pick would be taking Drouin or MacKinnon themselves at number one.

Say the Flyers end with the 2nd pick... should they try to move up and get Jones, or take MacKinnon and go from there?
- jak521

As much as I'd want Jones, I'd hold tight at #2 and either hope that one of the forwards goes #1, or pick up one of the forwards (I like Drouin, but that's a fair debate) and be happy with it. You'd probably have to give up a 2nd rounder + to move from 2 to 1. Then again, with Homer's history of 2nd rounders...

Decent cap hit next year too. 3 million. If I was a team like the Jackets I would be all over him.
- PLindbergh31

I'd want Jokinen as a center. Really underrated player. Good face-off guy, plays well in all three zones (especially the neutral zone -- something the Flyers really lack), and can play on the PK.

The $3 million for next year hurts as does the addition of Simon Gagne to the roster.

As much as I'd want Jones, I'd hold tight at #2 and either hope that one of the forwards goes #1, or pick up one of the forwards (I like Drouin, but that's a fair debate) and be happy with it. You'd probably have to give up a 2nd rounder + to move from 2 to 1. Then again, with Homer's history of 2nd rounders...
- jmatchett

If they end up anywhere in the top 3 it would be fantastic. They won't get a top 5 pick. Anywhere between 7-12.

I just think Jones in O&B is a very tempting thought.. then again, all three of them have the potential to be veryyy good players.
- jak521

Would love to add Seth Jones, no doubt. But he might not make a big difference for 2-3 years.