Isn't Phaneuf past his prime? He'll never be as good as he was at his peak in Calgary..
- Lipchitz

He seems like guy who will never get over the rule changes, his lateral movement fails often and he gives the puck away too quick as guys bare down on him. If he doesn't improve he won't be a true number 1

Statsny would be great on the leafs. Tying up $12M in Statsny and Grabo wouldn't be smart management though. The Av's would certainly have to take back some salary to get a deal done with TO.
- Lipchitz

Liles would probably go the other way to shed some salary. Grabo would have to be traded then too... probably to a team like nashville i always bring up nashville because they are always looking for offense

In 3 years if everyone thing goes well I'd like our D to be something like:

Phaneuf-Gardiner
Rielly-Franson
Blacker-Fraser
Finn/Percy

With Holzer, Gunnarson, Liles, Kostka being expendable. Maybe keep Holzer for some toughness to rotate in.

thoughts? Who can we get back for those guys, maybe as part of a package?
- MapleLeafsFTW

I believe Franson Fraser is the most likely top future pairing.

Isn't Phaneuf past his prime? He'll never be as good as he was at his peak in Calgary..
- Lipchitz

That's debatable, it seems like he's off the coke (just an assumption I made that he was on it in the first place.) He just needs to lose 10 pounds. I also think he has went from being very overrated to being underrated. He has over 90 hits and a respectable 17 points playing against the oppositions best.

I believe Franson Fraser is the most likely top future pairing.
- aminnes

I believe Franson Fraser is the most likely top future pairing.
- aminnes

A 17 minute top pairing?

He seems like guy who will never get over the rule changes, his lateral movement fails often and he gives the puck away too quick as guys bare down on him. If he doesn't improve he won't be a true number 1
- aminnes

+1

- gardinerfan

Oh moderator! Laugh all you want best pairing in terms of already being a nice combo and both are young. Playing together they will only get better.

I believe Franson Fraser is the most likely top future pairing.
- aminnes

Yeah true, I was sort of just ranking them by depth more or less.

Liles would probably go the other way to shed some salary. Grabo would have to be traded then too... probably to a team like nashville i always bring up nashville because they are always looking for offense
- Mapleleafs_91

Ya, there would have to be salary going to the Avs and subsequent moves by the Leafs. With that many moving parts it's a deal better served in the off-season IMO.

A 17 minute top pairing?
- AdamFrench

In the future, not today.

Liles would probably go the other way to shed some salary. Grabo would have to be traded then too... probably to a team like nashville i always bring up nashville because they are always looking for offense
- Mapleleafs_91

Does Nashville still have the Kostitsyns? That could be trouble..

Yeah true, I was sort of just ranking them by depth more or less.
- MapleLeafsFTW

It's alright, I see two guys who are getting better every game, while Phaneuf is what he is, and he ain't a top pair guy.

That's debatable, it seems like he's off the coke (just an assumption I made that he was on it in the first place.) He just needs to lose 10 pounds. I also think he has went from being very overrated to being underrated. He has over 90 hits and a respectable 17 points playing against the oppositions best.
- MapleLeafsFTW

Phaneuf has been just alright in Toronto. He's been an effective #2 since he got here and, he needs some help on the top pairing. He was a beast in Calgary though.

Ya, there would have to be salary going to the Avs and subsequent moves by the Leafs. With that many moving parts it's a deal better served in the off-season IMO.
- Lipchitz

Depends, stastny can easily be expendable for the avs right now, but trading grabo would probably be better in the off season.. who knows haha, but it doesnt look like the leafs will do much right now

Oh moderator! Laugh all you want best pairing in terms of already being a nice combo and both are young. Playing together they will only get better.
- aminnes

There are a lot better D in Toronto, in the future that is. Go to a Marlies game if you ever get the chance, Rielly will be great and so will Gardiner. Phanuef gets beat so often because he is used so heavily. I agree they are currently the best pairing, but in the future? C'mon...

There are a lot better D in Toronto, in the future that is. Go to a Marlies game if you ever get the chance, Rielly will be great and so will Gardiner. Phanuef gets beat so often because he is used so heavily. I agree they are currently the best pairing, but in the future? C'mon...
- gardinerfan

Your talking about like 7 years into the future i'm talking about in a couple years time. So if Paneuf can't play top minutes, is he a top d man? no?

Grabovski for the Selke. It's a lock.

He seems like guy who will never get over the rule changes, his lateral movement fails often and he gives the puck away too quick as guys bare down on him. If he doesn't improve he won't be a true number 1
- aminnes

Watch him closely tonight, firstly he gets over played so he's learned to play a smarter game by keeping his position and doing little things right, secondly he's playing against top players on other teams.

Look at guys like Doughty and Green who play similar games, their numbers decline accordingly as they play against top forwards in a shut down role.

It's alright, I see two guys who are getting better every game, while Phaneuf is what he is, and he ain't a top pair guy.
- aminnes

I strongly disagree.

Your talking about like 7 years into the future i'm talking about in a couple years time. So if Paneuf can't play top minutes, is he a top d man? no?
- aminnes

He is second in TOI for D... there are a TON of other dmen who play less and look much better than him. Cut the man some slack. And no, I mean Rielly will be a leaf next year. Seriosuly, watch the kid. Amazing. I know now why Burke had him at #1. Blows Murray/Rienhart out of the water... Yaks/Gally are still pretty damn good though.

Watch him closely tonight, firstly he gets over played so he's learned to play a smarter game by keeping his position and doing little things right, secondly he's playing against top players on other teams.

Look at guys like Doughty and Green who play similar games, their numbers decline accordingly as they play against top forwards in a shut down role.
- MapleLeafsFTW

Their numbers decline because they aren't very good defensively. The diffrerence is that they produce huge. Dion doesn't produce enough and at the same time isn't great in his own end either. If they can pick up another real solid guy to play with him he'll be okay.

A 60 (Who knows he's looking great and pretty much a PPG player in this small sample) point shutdown center who wins face-offs and is only 22?

Done in a (frank)ing heartbeat
- AdamFrench

Like all fans, we are unwilling to give up talent to get talent.

I would not want to trade Gardiner, but with the way the Leafs are structured and what is in the system already, I would give up Gardiner+ for ROR.


Of course that isn't happening now

He is second in TOI for D... there are a TON of other dmen who play less and look much better than him. Cut the man some slack. And no, I mean Rielly will be a leaf next year. Seriosuly, watch the kid. Amazing. I know now why Burke had him at #1. Blows Murray/Rienhart out of the water... Yaks/Gally are still pretty damn good though.
- gardinerfan

I am cutting him slack, it's not his fault they don't have anyone better.

Their numbers decline because they aren't very good defensively. The diffrerence is that they produce huge. Dion doesn't produce enough and at the same time isn't great in his own end either. If they can pick up another real solid guy to play with him he'll be okay.
- aminnes

Phaneuf's stats have been similar to Doughty the last couple of years and Phaneuf is out producing him this year, Phaneuf has out produced Green the last couple years too even if you adjust Greens game played to match Phaneufs.