That's fine. In fact, I am not much interested for any real price either.

The problem is that you have a real tendency to jump all over people whose opinion differs from yours.

It is obnoxious.

UG stole your lunch money on this one Big D and you made it simple for him.
- Aetherial

hahahahaha

all the haters out today i love it.

actually if you read the conversation - i stated at least twice that this is my opinion, that i dont like Thornton and i dont want him on the leafs for his price.

thats all i said, and this crap started, typical hockeybuzz, and typical same 4-5 idiots.

Pretty much, MacA was there for a bit and I think he was a good indication of what happens when a player out of a checking roll, Kulemin too since he's been playing with Kadri.
- MapleLeafsFTW

Yup, I don't think Grabs has been very creative this year at all. The thing is too, is he may get minutes against top scorers but he rarely faces the opposing top pair on D. Watch tonight, Chara will play exclusively against Kessel with some Kadri thrown in and Grabs will still do little if anything offensively, good players play against good players and produce, that simple.

Agreed, Burke was/is good at trading, but not much else. Gillis is not good at anything but signing guys to reasonable contracts and running his mouth.
- LeftCoaster

Nonis is better than both, at both... except running his mouth. They both beat him at that.

Dumbest thing Vancouver ever did was get rid of Nonis in favour of Gillis.

You said Thornton sucks because he has 6 points since week two of the season which was proven to be horribly wrong but you defend Grabovski relentlessly despite playing fairly bad for most of the season. Right.
- Two_For_Truth

And then you turn around and say teams would line up to have Grabbo at $4.5 million a year.

Which is it, Uggie?

So who was better?

And yes, I'm only asking this to see if you have the nuts to give Phaneuf a compliment.
- Atomic Wedgie

Phaneuf playing better than Liles is a grand compliment if I've ever seen one.

Gardiner and Gunnarsson were both more effective and consistent than Liles was.

And then you turn around and say teams would line up to have Grabbo at $4.5 million a year.

Which is it, Uggie?
- Atomic Wedgie

A team that wants offensive depth that is decent defensively is more willing to pay 4.5 million dollars for Grabovski. If it means giving up a 2 million dollar shutdown center in exchange, it means they only pay an extra 2.5 million for a guy who can help them offensively. Some teams may be able to make that trade depending on what their needs are.

And then you turn around and say teams would line up to have Grabbo at $4.5 million a year.

Which is it, Uggie?
- Atomic Wedgie

he will have no answer, he has no logic, therefore...no answer.

his mother should have swallowed is basically what it boils down to.

Phaneuf playing better than Liles is a grand compliment if I've ever seen one.

Gardiner and Gunnarsson were both more effective and consistent than Liles was.
- Two_For_Truth

Gardiner, although i like him, consistantly has trouble in his own end.

nope.

i said i dont want thornton on the leafs, because i would rather have us spend whatever it is on him, to get someone else i like more.

i then said thornton has been cold, and hasnt done poop since week 2. i was then shown he has got things back together recently with 10 points in 13 games or whatever, that doenst change the point that i dont want him on the leafs. end of that story.

and as for grabovski, hes played with kulemin, mcclemment and komarov for the majority of the season, tell me UG, which one of these players is offensive minded?? none of them, thats right, in a shutdown role grabovski has 8 goals.

nothing spectacular compared to his 5.5 mil a year...but guess what those are still similar stats to bozak who plays with phil and jvr all season, and on the #1 PP AND not vs number one lines of every team...so yeah, his production is down a bit, and hes being mis-used by carlyle.

but i wouldnt expect you to understand this concept, because its more than goals and assists, and you and half of the flunky's in here dont get it.

which is fine, but dont troll me, i dont need any of your 40 year old depression bs talking about the leafs, you need help, and a life, but you could start with help.
- big_dion

Carlyle believes Grabs can produce regardless and has said so. He believes he actually is a 5.5 million dollar player who can score points even against other good players, the fact that he plays with those guys is because he hasn't produced and has lost his job to Kadri. Pls, playing with Kulemin was great two years ago, what happened? He was still facing top lines and everything else. He also has shown he doesn't make those around him better because no one his doing well playing with him. Mac can be moved wherever and do well, so what does that say?

Phaneuf playing better than Liles is a grand compliment if I've ever seen one.

Gardiner and Gunnarsson were both more effective and consistent than Liles was.
- Two_For_Truth

There were a few games there where I really thought Gunnarsson needed to be shelved for surgery. He was awful. Then he came out and was steady on saturday.

Dion just needs to keep things simple. Gunnar was a big steadying influence last year but sadly hasn't been able to duplicate that.

Grabvoski's situation is a matter of roles and maybe confidence. You play a player who isn't a star, in a checking roll, they are going to put up checking line numbers.
- MapleLeafsFTW

Paying 5.5 million for a shutdown center just doesn't make sense. Find a way to get his offensive numbers back up, trade him and replace him with somebody cheaper.

I agree. So back to the original dilemma. UG here says his numbers WILL increase and that we then should be shopping him. If he's throwing up 50 points a year, do you keep him as a shutdown third line center for that price? Is he worth playing 15 minutes a game for 5.5? So many ifs. I just don't see his offensive flair coming back when hes in a defensive role. Just personal opinion. Who knows though, we should let UG field this though because hes the professional and all knowing hockey knowledge GOD.
- Fatty-Patty

What I would like to see happen is Bozak be put into checking situations where he belongs. Carlyle has tried to make 3 lines who can score and are defensively responsible instead of the typical 2 scoring lines and one checking, I'm sure he has his reasons and it does work. But the cost is one of those scoring lines has to be the checking line and it's been Grabo's. I'd like to see something like:

Kessel-Grabo-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
MacA-Bozak-Kulemin
Orr-McClement-McClaren/Kamorov

Paying 5.5 million for a shutdown center just doesn't make sense. Find a way to get his offensive numbers back up, trade him and replace him with somebody cheaper.
- Two_For_Truth

I agree, I think we are using him and Bozak in the wrong rolls. Bozak is a more appropriate shutdown while Grabo is more offensively gifted than Bozak.

and then grade him when we get a big 1 C

Paying 5.5 million for a shutdown center just doesn't make sense. Find a way to get his offensive numbers back up, trade him and replace him with somebody cheaper.
- Two_For_Truth

Basically been my argument for the last couple weeks. At 5.5 it just doesn't make any sense. I'd rather have Bozak at 4ish than Grabs at 5.5 for another 4 years. Especially when you consider the guy's almost 30.

And as far as the 'checking centre' role is concerned, if you can't come through on key defensive faceoffs like in the game at ScotiaBank Place, then you're not cut out for the role. Grabs got his contract because of points, something he can't do because instead of utilizing his speed, he's focused on cycling in the offensive zone.

What I would like to see happen is Bozak be put into checking situations where he belongs. Carlyle has tried to make 3 lines who can score and are defensively responsible instead of the typical 2 scoring lines and one checking, I'm sure he has his reasons and it does work. But the cost is one of those scoring lines has to be the checking line and it's been Grabo's. I'd like to see something like:

Kessel-Grabo-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
MacA-Bozak-Kulemin
Orr-McClement-McClaren/Kamorov
- MapleLeafsFTW

The reason he wants 3 lines that score is that is what Championship teams possess.

A team that wants offensive depth that is decent defensively is more willing to pay 4.5 million dollars for Grabovski. If it means giving up a 2 million dollar shutdown center in exchange, it means they only pay an extra 2.5 million for a guy who can help them offensively.
- Two_For_Truth

So Grabovski is paid $3 million too much a year, has never demonstrated that he can play a sound two-way game, but your grand plan for him is to teach him to score off the counter attack, and as soon as his numbers look good, trade him to some team that would be willing to pay him $4.5 million a year. And we would have to do that right away, because of course his numbers will fall back down and he won't be worth $4.5 million a year. Because he sucks, although he has skills.

But only you realize that. NHL GMs don't.

Simple plan. Looks good from here.

On behalf of Leafs Nation, thanks. Please wait by the phone.

The reason he wants 3 lines that score is that is what Championship teams possess.
- aminnes

There isn't much of a difference between 3 lines who can score and 2 lines that score and a checking line which chips in appropriately. In my opinion a 3rd line of MacA-Bozak-Kulemin would still score, but would free up Grabo to earn his contract.

What I would like to see happen is Bozak be put into checking situations where he belongs. Carlyle has tried to make 3 lines who can score and are defensively responsible instead of the typical 2 scoring lines and one checking, I'm sure he has his reasons and it does work. But the cost is one of those scoring lines has to be the checking line and it's been Grabo's. I'd like to see something like:

Kessel-Grabo-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
MacA-Bozak-Kulemin
Orr-McClement-McClaren/Kamorov
- MapleLeafsFTW

Please, not the Grabs with Kessel routine. Bozak wins draws, and over the last few weeks, has shown an ability to bury opportunities in front of the net. Not saying he's a no. 1 centre by any stretch, as we all know he's no. 2 material; it's just that with the emergence of Kadri, and Loops, what we consider our no. 1 line is getting blurred.

I do agree that in the end Frattin is the best fit on the Kadri line. He was on fire before getting injured, and shouldn't be used on the third line. The old Grabs, Mac Kuli line should be reunitied

There were a few games there where I really thought Gunnarsson needed to be shelved for surgery. He was awful. Then he came out and was steady on saturday.

Dion just needs to keep things simple. Gunnar was a big steadying influence last year but sadly hasn't been able to duplicate that.
- AngryWhiteMale

I agree I wanted to give Gunnar a rest but he seems to be getting back to his game.

Paying 5.5 million for a shutdown center just doesn't make sense. Find a way to get his offensive numbers back up, trade him and replace him with somebody cheaper.
- Two_For_Truth

Time to move Kadri and Grabo up in the lineup ....and McLement ...they're all playing better than Bozak right now.

There isn't much of a difference between 3 lines who can score and 2 lines that score and a checking line which chips in appropriately. In my opinion a 3rd line of MacA-Bozak-Kulemin would still score, but would free up Grabo to earn his contract.
- MapleLeafsFTW

Oh I'm not arguing your lines at all for all intents and purposes that would be fine. I'm just saying Randy knows if he can get Grabs to start winning battle and getting the puck into the offensive zone more the LEafs will be brutal to play against. Just look at how the Bruins key on Phil and it opened up things for KAdri, imagine if Grabos line could score more it would be deadly. 3 scoring lines is downright scary for opposing teams IF it can be done properly.

So who was better?

And yes, I'm only asking this to see if you have the nuts to give Phaneuf a compliment.
- Atomic Wedgie

I am not even a huge Gardiner fan (meaning I would like to see him used in package for someone like Couturier)....but any blind man can see that he was easily our best dman last year (off. and def.).

Please, not the Grabs with Kessel routine. Bozak wins draws, and over the last few weeks, has shown an ability to bury opportunities in front of the net. Not saying he's a no. 1 centre by any stretch, as we all know he's no. 2 material; it's just that with the emergence of Kadri, and Loops, what we consider our no. 1 line is getting blurred.

I do agree that in the end Frattin is the best fit on the Kadri line. He was on fire before getting injured, and shouldn't be used on the third line. The old Grabs, Mac Kuli line should be reunitied
- AngryWhiteMale

You're falling victim to the effect of the circumstances, you're forgetting that Grabo is traditionally an above 50% faceoff percentage and is more offensively gifted than Bozak, but because Bozak has been used in the 1C role and Grabo in the 3C you're forgetting who the better player is.

So Grabovski is paid $3 million too much a year, has never demonstrated that he can play a sound two-way game, but your grand plan for him is to teach him to score off the counter attack, and as soon as his numbers look good, trade him to some team that would be willing to pay him $4.5 million a year. And we would have to do that right away, because of course his numbers will fall back down and he won't be worth $4.5 million a year. Because he sucks, although he has skills.
- Atomic Wedgie

Grabovski was paid like a 30 goal, 60 point player by Burke because that's what they expected him to become. If he can be a 20 goal, 50 point player, he's worth 4.5 million. Grabovski can't play a shutdown role, doesn't mean he can't play two-way hockey against the average players. He is still decent defensively, just not a Selke candidate. His offensive numbers make him look bad, but if he can get back up to the 50 point range, a team in search of offensive depth on the 2nd line would be more willing to move a more defensive center for him.

I am not even a huge Gardiner fan (meaning I would like to see him used in package for someone like Couturier)....but any blind man can see that he was easily our best dman last year (off. and def.).
- Cooshie

Gardiner was our best dman last year - defensively?

Oh my...