He hasn't been in a shutdown role before... He starts in the defensive zone every shift. He's not eating PP time... Why would you assume his number would all of a sudden increase?? I would assume they would stay similar to what they are right now...
- Fatty-Patty

Because he'll learn to score on the counter attack rather than the rush. He has the speed and the skill, he just needs to adapt to the new style.

Because he'll learn to score on the counter attack rather than the rush. He has the speed and the skill, he just needs to adapt to the new style.
- Two_For_Truth

Generally a shutdown line doesn't put up offensive numbers... Yes they score, but you're saying he's going to score like he has in the past... In this situation? No, I do not believe that will happen. You're off your rocker to think he will put those number back up in the role hes playing...

He hasn't been in a shutdown role before... He starts in the defensive zone every shift. He's not eating PP time... Why would you assume his number would all of a sudden increase?? I would assume they would stay similar to what they are right now...
- Fatty-Patty

Well if his numbers stay similar than Nonis needs to think about buying him out...No way can they afford to pay a 3 line center 5.5mil for the next 3-4yrs..

Grabovski may have the ability to fight through this. I know RC wants 3 scoring lines, meaning if Grabs was playing well he would score even though he plays against good players - that's what good players do no? If he can get his poop together he'll be fine. This whole idea that because you face good lines you don't have to contribute offensively is poppy-cock ya i said it poppy-cock.

So there are a lot of teams that are lining up to trade for a guy who has never shown he can play the 2-way centre role at $5.5 million cap hit?

Getting him down to $4.5 million doesn't really make a difference.

And let's not forget his reputation.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yes it does, if he's scoring in the 50 point range and is decent defensively.

Some kind of Grabo + - Luongo + swap could work well for both teams.
- Lipchitz

Huh, never thought about that. Makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Well if his numbers stay similar than Nonis needs to think about buying him out...No way can they afford to pay a 3 line center 5.5mil for the nest 3-4yrs..
- Fruitcakenipple

It's that thing, do you want to lose him? He's overpaid right now, but at this point in time it doesn't hurt the leafs because they arent tied to the cap. Thats a lot of money for a business to eat, even if it is the leafs. At the same time he does a solid job in the shutdown and offers a little offensive upside in that role. Nothing that would increase his value, but enough that it warrants keeping him around. Its a delicate situation.

If you're really going to compare Thornton to Grabovski, it's only going to end poorly for you.
- Two_For_Truth

right cause that was the convo right!?

right cause that was the convo right!?
- big_dion

i swear he doesnt read the posts... just sees some random names and then makes some ultimatum statement that you apparently said

Grabovski may have the ability to fight through this. I know RC wants 3 scoring lines, meaning if Grabs was playing well he would score even though he plays against good players - that's what good players do no? If he can get his poop together he'll be fine. This whole idea that because you face good lines you don't have to contribute offensively is poppy-cock ya i said it poppy-cock.
- aminnes

He's been playing with McClement and Kulemin who haven't been good offensively most of the year, in a checking roll and has done a good job at where he has been placed. Given the circumstances I think he's done well.

It's that thing, do you want to lose him? He's overpaid right now, but at this point in time it doesn't hurt the leafs because they arent tied to the cap. Thats a lot of money for a business to eat, even if it is the leafs. At the same time he does a solid job in the shutdown and offers a little offensive upside in that role. Nothing that would increase his value, but enough that it warrants keeping him around. Its a delicate situation.
- Fatty-Patty

Right now it's okay, but in the future it will be a problem. If he can be a third line guy and still bag his 50 points I can live with a million of overpaid dollars.

i swear he doesnt read the posts... just sees some random names and then makes some ultimatum statement that you apparently said
- DarcyTucker16

He wants your head to explode, im telling you... He's a troll who tries to use his own unique kind of logic to troll you without you knowing.

right cause that was the convo right!?
- big_dion

You said Thornton sucks because he has 6 points since week two of the season which was proven to be horribly wrong but you defend Grabovski relentlessly despite playing fairly bad for most of the season. Right.

Good thinge days of going after guys like Kipper are over.

I was also really happy with how Reimer played on saturday. When you take puck-handling out of the equation he's actually been really solid. P-H is something that good coaching can really help with. Once James learns not only what to do with the puck(and making quicker decisions) as well as when not to play it, he'll be much better.

I think his coverage of the upper portion of the net saturday was solid, and one of the few times we can honestly say the goaltending really stole us one. Doesn't hurt that we got valuable goals out of the guys we need to score in the first place, such as Nazem and Grabs.

As for tonight, I'd be happy with a point. Would really like to see Kessel and JVR get off the shnied(sic). Loops should be a boost, but BOS will almost certainly put forward a big effort too.

Right now it's okay, but in the future it will be a problem. If he can be a third line guy and still bag his 50 points I can live with a million of overpaid dollars.
- aminnes

So the question then becomes, will he become a 50 point player in this role?

Tough call.

He's been playing with McClement and Kulemin who haven't been good offensively most of the year, in a checking roll and has done a good job at where he has been placed. Given the circumstances I think he's done well.
- MapleLeafsFTW

He hasn't been playing with those guys all year. He got pushed out by Kadri is all. Now they have to deal with it.

So the question then becomes, will he become a 50 point player in this role?

Tough call.
- Fatty-Patty

I think he can, and should. I've seen him play better than he has regardless of all the excuses people are making for him. He can play better than this.

nobody is allowed their own opinion.

i dont want joe thornton for what we would have to pay.

thats it, thats all.
- big_dion

That's fine. In fact, I am not much interested for any real price either.

The problem is that you have a real tendency to jump all over people whose opinion differs from yours.

It is obnoxious.

UG stole your lunch money on this one Big D and you made it simple for him.

Good thinge days of going after guys like Kipper are over.

I was also really happy with how Reimer played on saturday. When you take puck-handling out of the equation he's actually been really solid. P-H is something that good coaching can really help with. Once James learns not only what to do with the puck(and making quicker decisions) as well as when not to play it, he'll be much better.

I think his coverage of the upper portion of the net saturday was solid, and one of the few times we can honestly say the goaltending really stole us one. Doesn't hurt that we got valuable goals out of the guys we need to score in the first place, such as Nazem and Grabs.

As for tonight, I'd be happy with a point. Would really like to see Kessel and JVR get off the shnied(sic). Loops should be a boost, but BOS will almost certainly put forward a big effort too.
- AngryWhiteMale

Certainly as close to a steal as we've seen all year.

It's that thing, do you want to lose him? He's overpaid right now, but at this point in time it doesn't hurt the leafs because they arent tied to the cap. Thats a lot of money for a business to eat, even if it is the leafs. At the same time he does a solid job in the shutdown and offers a little offensive upside in that role. Nothing that would increase his value, but enough that it warrants keeping him around. Its a delicate situation.
- Fatty-Patty

Well the thing is we can afford that if we get Kadri for a similar price and Bozak for a much cheaper price. When we have an opportunity for that elusive first line center we move Grabo. Honestly with the emergence of Kadri I'm okay with our situation on center, Grabo and Kadri lack size but are both tenacious players.

He hasn't been playing with those guys all year. He got pushed out by Kadri is all. Now they have to deal with it.
- aminnes

Pretty much, MacA was there for a bit and I think he was a good indication of what happens when a player out of a checking roll, Kulemin too since he's been playing with Kadri.

Well the thing is we can afford that if we get Kadri for a similar price and Bozak for a much cheaper price. When we have an opportunity for that elusive first line center we move Grabo. Honestly with the emergence of Kadri I'm okay with our situation on center, Grabo and Kadri lack size but are both tenacious players.
- MapleLeafsFTW

I agree. So back to the original dilemma. UG here says his numbers WILL increase and that we then should be shopping him. If he's throwing up 50 points a year, do you keep him as a shutdown third line center for that price? Is he worth playing 15 minutes a game for 5.5? So many ifs. I just don't see his offensive flair coming back when hes in a defensive role. Just personal opinion. Who knows though, we should let UG field this though because hes the professional and all knowing hockey knowledge GOD.

You said Thornton sucks because he has 6 points since week two of the season which was proven to be horribly wrong but you defend Grabovski relentlessly despite playing fairly bad for most of the season. Right.
- Two_For_Truth

nope.

i said i dont want thornton on the leafs, because i would rather have us spend whatever it is on him, to get someone else i like more.

i then said thornton has been cold, and hasnt done poop since week 2. i was then shown he has got things back together recently with 10 points in 13 games or whatever, that doenst change the point that i dont want him on the leafs. end of that story.

and as for grabovski, hes played with kulemin, mcclemment and komarov for the majority of the season, tell me UG, which one of these players is offensive minded?? none of them, thats right, in a shutdown role grabovski has 8 goals.

nothing spectacular compared to his 5.5 mil a year...but guess what those are still similar stats to bozak who plays with phil and jvr all season, and on the #1 PP AND not vs number one lines of every team...so yeah, his production is down a bit, and hes being mis-used by carlyle.

but i wouldnt expect you to understand this concept, because its more than goals and assists, and you and half of the flunky's in here dont get it.

which is fine, but dont troll me, i dont need any of your 40 year old depression bs talking about the leafs, you need help, and a life, but you could start with help.

Perhaps your favorite but not their best.
- Two_For_Truth

So who was better?

And yes, I'm only asking this to see if you have the nuts to give Phaneuf a compliment.

You said Thornton sucks because he has 6 points since week two of the season which was proven to be horribly wrong but you defend Grabovski relentlessly despite playing fairly bad for most of the season. Right.
- Two_For_Truth

Grabvoski's situation is a matter of roles and maybe confidence. You play a player who isn't a star, in a checking roll, they are going to put up checking line numbers.