i never said the penalties weren't deserved. i was just pointing out the occurrence has happened on more than one occasion. last night's game, both calls were correct. i was surprised the 2nd penalty wasn't a penalty shot - i've seen them being called this season for less than that.

but since you've suggested i'm being a homer, one situation that comes to mind was the 5 on 3 the pens got in OT in the playoffs i think back in 08, with calls against Carter and Knuble IIRC- the 2nd of which was horrendous. Pens win.
- hammarby31

staal clamped onto carter's stick like a dog on a bone. i remember it well.

you asked me to go off of rankings....so i did...Hamilton was ranked the #4 in North America. Sean was rated # 6...All of those guys on that list were rated higher.
- Philly1980

None of those guys were ever rated #1. Couts was. For a long time too. He got sick and his play slowed a bit.. but he put up even better numbers.

Look at Dougie Hamilton.. he is a solid player, but he is the only d-man on Boston with a minus rating, and he is also on the ice in offensive zone starts 55% of the time.. that is by far the highest amongst their d-men and more than most of their forwards as well.

Hamilton should be a very good player for some time.. but lets see him in his second year when teams have him scouted fully.

Yeah, but the team didn't have a hand in their development. The junior teams are not controlled by the NHL team. They recognized that they either were not ready or didn't have a need to fill.

The Flyers generally would rather have their high picks in the organization, rather than have their development in the hands of somebody else.

The problem is, the Flyers always being in win now mode means kids get rushed. But spending an extra year in juniors isn't a sure cure for a sophomore slump.
- Jsaquella

Over all the 1st round picks since I have been a fan.. I can only really think of a few players who were rushed, and it hurt the player long term. Zubrus being the #1.

Yeah, but the team didn't have a hand in their development. The junior teams are not controlled by the NHL team. They recognized that they either were not ready or didn't have a need to fill.

The Flyers generally would rather have their high picks in the organization, rather than have their development in the hands of somebody else.

The problem is, the Flyers always being in win now mode means kids get rushed. But spending an extra year in juniors isn't a sure cure for a sophomore slump.
- Jsaquella

I agree... the conversation though was:

How many teams have star players in the ahl/minors from the draft...

so i looked at 2011 NHL draft and took guys who were ranked higher than couts...then took a look and saw what teams did with them...

who do you think will be our #1 dman in 2 years?
- mydoglicks

shea weber

I agree... the conversation though was:

How many teams have star players in the ahl/minors from the draft...

so i looked at 2011 NHL draft and took guys who were ranked higher than couts...then took a look and saw what teams did with them...
- Philly1980

That wasnt the conversation at all.. The point was that Couts and Schenn will get further to a top end d-man than a prospect will any day.

shea weber
- Don'tForgetTocchet

None of those guys were ever rated #1. Couts was. For a long time too. He got sick and his play slowed a bit.. but he put up even better numbers.

Look at Dougie Hamilton.. he is a solid player, but he is the only d-man on Boston with a minus rating, and he is also on the ice in offensive zone starts 55% of the time.. that is by far the highest amongst their d-men and more than most of their forwards as well.

Hamilton should be a very good player for some time.. but lets see him in his second year when teams have him scouted fully.
- jak521

so he dropped..point is those players were rated higher.

so he dropped..point is those players were rated higher.
- Philly1980

What does a players rating in their draft class have to do with anything?

Do you know who Mark Mitera is?

I dont even know how I got coaxed into the ratings....

What does a players rating in their draft class have to do with anything?

Do you know who Mark Mitera is?

I dont even know how I got coaxed into the ratings....
- jak521

who

who
- Philly1980

The guy who was rated much higher, and selected four spots before Claude Giroux.

I agree... the conversation though was:

How many teams have star players in the ahl/minors from the draft...

so i looked at 2011 NHL draft and took guys who were ranked higher than couts...then took a look and saw what teams did with them...
- Philly1980

Yeah, and most of those guys are not eligible for the AHL before this season. So they kept them in juniors.

Couturier had a very good rookie year, and he's had a sophomore slump. Lot of guys had sophomore slumps. Look at Richards and Carter. Both stayed in juniors, played in the AHL and both had rough second seasons.

The same could happen to Huberdeau and Hamilton-Hell, as pointed out Hamilton has hit a bit of a rookie wall himself.

Over all the 1st round picks since I have been a fan.. I can only really think of a few players who were rushed, and it hurt the player long term. Zubrus being the #1.
- jak521

Zubrus was rushed because in that era size was overemphasized, especially by the Flyers. The fact that an 18 year old kid had decent skills AND was 6'5 225 made him irresistible to the Flyers.

Zubrus was rushed because in that era size was overemphasized, especially by the Flyers. The fact that an 18 year old kid had decent skills AND was 6'5 225 made him irresistible to the Flyers.
- BiggE

No doubt about it. The idea of having Lindros AND Zubrus was tantalizing at the very least.

Zubrus was rushed because in that era size was overemphasized, especially by the Flyers. The fact that an 18 year old kid had decent skills AND was 6'5 225 made him irresistible to the Flyers.
- BiggE

Zubrus was really badly handled. They kept him in the NHL when he should have spent another year in juniors, then spent another 2 or 3 years in the AHL.

Roger Neilson really handled him badly, too, healthy scratches and even had him practice as a defenseman

The guy who was rated much higher, and selected four spots before Claude Giroux.
- jak521

maybe he needs more time to develop

Yeah, and most of those guys are not eligible for the AHL before this season. So they kept them in juniors.

Couturier had a very good rookie year, and he's had a sophomore slump. Lot of guys had sophomore slumps. Look at Richards and Carter. Both stayed in juniors, played in the AHL and both had rough second seasons.

The same could happen to Huberdeau and Hamilton-Hell, as pointed out Hamilton has hit a bit of a rookie wall himself.
- Jsaquella

Another thing to consider, how beneficial was it for Couturier and Schenn to have been able to spend a season on a team with Jaromir Jagr? I'm pretty sure they couldn't get that kind of experience in Juniors or the AHL!

maybe he needs more time to develop
- Philly1980

yea.. no sense in rushing him.

Zubrus was really badly handled. They kept him in the NHL when he should have spent another year in juniors, then spent another 2 or 3 years in the AHL.

Roger Neilson really handled him badly, too, healthy scratches and even had him practice as a defenseman
- Jsaquella

I agree 100%, Neilson was a coach who preferred veteran players.

From mynhltraderumors.com: "The Flyers would like to move Daniel Briere. He has a no-movement clause and feels he could be an amnesty buyout in the summer. He’d then have the choice as to where he’d end up as a free-agent."

If that's the case, wouldn't he still have that same option in the summer if he were traded?

Another thing to consider, how beneficial was it for Couturier and Schenn to have been able to spend a season on a team with Jaromir Jagr? I'm pretty sure they couldn't get that kind of experience in Juniors or the AHL!
- BiggE

Another great point. Couts is have a terrible year... dont rush judgement and give up on him.

From mynhltraderumors.com: "The Flyers would like to move Daniel Briere. He has a no-movement clause and feels he could be an amnesty buyout in the summer. He’d then have the choice as to where he’d end up as a free-agent."

If that's the case, wouldn't he still have that same option in the summer if he were traded?
- mikel33

Not if his new team didn't buy him out.

From mynhltraderumors.com: "The Flyers would like to move Daniel Briere. He has a no-movement clause and feels he could be an amnesty buyout in the summer. He’d then have the choice as to where he’d end up as a free-agent."

If that's the case, wouldn't he still have that same option in the summer if he were traded?
- mikel33

Not necessarily. Its the teams choice as to whether or not they wanna buy him out.

From mynhltraderumors.com: "The Flyers would like to move Daniel Briere. He has a no-movement clause and feels he could be an amnesty buyout in the summer. He’d then have the choice as to where he’d end up as a free-agent."

If that's the case, wouldn't he still have that same option in the summer if he were traded?
- mikel33

If he is traded, and not bought out. He won't be a Free Agent in the Summer. He has two more years left on his deal.

From mynhltraderumors.com: "The Flyers would like to move Daniel Briere. He has a no-movement clause and feels he could be an amnesty buyout in the summer. He’d then have the choice as to where he’d end up as a free-agent."

If that's the case, wouldn't he still have that same option in the summer if he were traded?
- mikel33

The new team would have to agree to buy him out first.

Would you be cool with trading a good asset and then buying out the guy you traded for?

What he could do is secure a promise from the new team that they'd use a compliance buy out on him in June before agreeing to waive the NMC.