Yes it is. Oduya and Hjalmarsson are on the ice for many more defensive draws and against many more of the opponents top lines. Roles that were virtually Seabrook exclusive the last two years. Yes everyone's ice time is down but if you haven't seen a down tick in Seabrook's performance this year you haven't been watching...
- yahoodi

Across the board every one on defense has seen their ice time go down. So it's more or less Q being confident with every one out there. So as much as Hammer and Oduya are out there more it's not because of the play of Seabs and Keith but more to do with the depth as a unit.

I think McNeil and a roster player go to Toronto for Tyler Bozak. Leafs wanted McNeil at his draft year and the Hawks have plenty of pipeline centers. I think they can afford to send one away. Bozak is 1.5 mil rental since hes a UFA at the end of the season. Fits under the cap by 1+ mil even if the hawks don't move a roster player. Leafs also make room to make another trade. JJ said Leafs scouts were at a Rockford game. Maybe they're looking for a Ryan Stanton. Just my thinking.

My info came from capgeek. My understanding is that the compliance buyouts for this year and next have no effect on the cap, but after that it does.

If they do buy him out at the end of this year, they will pay 1.3 mill per year until the end of the 2020/2021 season in "Cap Advantage" penalties - which counts against the cap. If they wait until the end of next season, that number goes to 1.8 mill.

If capgeek is correct, the Hawks are probably best off if Hossa plays out his contract. If they don't go with a compliance buyout, this is what it will cost them (cap hit) to buy him out at the end of the 2014/2015 season:
2015-16: -$1,741,667
2016-17: $2,158,333
2017-18: $5,158,333
2018-19: $5,158,333
2019-20: $5,158,333
2020-21: $5,158,333
2021-22: $883,333
2022-23: $883,333
2023-24: $883,333
2024-25: $883,333
2025-26: $883,333
2026-27: $883,333

And if you add the cap advantage penalty:
2015-16 through 2020-21 $2,625,000 per year

That makes this ugly scenario:
Total cap hit
2016/2017: $4,783,333
2017/2018: $7,783,333
2018/2019: $7,783,333
2019/2020: $7,783,333
2020/2021: $7,783,333
2021/2022: $3,508,333
- Tanuki

I guess most important to me is the approx $4 mill in cap savings even if any does apply.

That's enough to make Kane and Toews $ 8 mill players going forward.

Getzlaf/Perry's new contracts and now Rocky better knows the cost of doing business-Kane-Toews- Hossa and more..http://bit.ly/15mp83V

I don't get the Seabrook and Bolland sleep walking thing.....
- UnnamedSource

Seabs took a bad angle at the end of a long shift at altitude. Happens some times. He - and the team - got the message.

Bolly just isn't himself at times and I can't put a finger on it. But he's still out there a lot and Q has control of the team.

I think this is a whole lot about nothing right now.

My info came from capgeek. My understanding is that the compliance buyouts for this year and next have no effect on the cap, but after that it does.

If they do buy him out at the end of this year, they will pay 1.3 mill per year until the end of the 2020/2021 season in "Cap Advantage" penalties - which counts against the cap. If they wait until the end of next season, that number goes to 1.8 mill.

If capgeek is correct, the Hawks are probably best off if Hossa plays out his contract. If they don't go with a compliance buyout, this is what it will cost them (cap hit) to buy him out at the end of the 2014/2015 season:
2015-16: -$1,741,667
2016-17: $2,158,333
2017-18: $5,158,333
2018-19: $5,158,333
2019-20: $5,158,333
2020-21: $5,158,333
2021-22: $883,333
2022-23: $883,333
2023-24: $883,333
2024-25: $883,333
2025-26: $883,333
2026-27: $883,333

And if you add the cap advantage penalty:
2015-16 through 2020-21 $2,625,000 per year

That makes this ugly scenario:
Total cap hit
2016/2017: $4,783,333
2017/2018: $7,783,333
2018/2019: $7,783,333
2019/2020: $7,783,333
2020/2021: $7,783,333
2021/2022: $3,508,333
- Tanuki

Thanks,

Can you tell me what happens year by year if he plays til age 39 (Spring 2018) and/or age 40 (Spring 2019)—and retires.

Obviously, it's a 5.275 million cap hit every year til then. But he is also ostensibly adding some value as a player.

What are the ramifications of a retirement toward the end of his deal under the new CBA?

Last year, as a 40 year old, Jaromir Jagr had 54 points in 73 games (making $3.3 million). Teemu Selanne, as a 41 year old, had 66 points in 82 games (making $4 million).

Someone please tell me again why the Hawks HAVE to buy out Hossa?

Thanks,

Can you tell me what happens year by year if he plays til age 39 (Spring 2018) and/or age 40 (Spring 2019)—and retires.

Obviously, it's a 5.275 million cap hit every year til then. But he is also ostensibly adding some value as a player.

What are the ramifications of a retirement toward the end of his deal under the new CBA?
- John Jaeckel

Easiest just to go here: http://capgeek.com/buyout...3&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15 and spin the year selection.

Easiest just to go here: http://capgeek.com/buyout...3&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15 and spin the year selection.
- MartiniMan

Are the ramifications of a buy out the same as if he retires?

Thanks,

Can you tell me what happens year by year if he plays til age 39 (Spring 2018) and/or age 40 (Spring 2019)—and retires.

Obviously, it's a 5.275 million cap hit every year til then. But he is also ostensibly adding some value as a player.

What are the ramifications of a retirement toward the end of his deal under the new CBA?
- John Jaeckel

I gotta find the site that had these calcs too. Way different [lower] numbers I remember seeing for Hoss.

Last year, as a 40 year old, Jaromir Jagr had 54 points in 73 games. Teemu Selanne, as a 41 year old, had 66 points in 82 games.

Someone please tell me again why the Hawks HAVE to buy out Hossa?
- John Jaeckel

I agree. I think the Hossa buyout talk is just that...talk. Provided he stays healthy and wants to play, I seriously doubt it would happen.

And I don't recall hearing anything in the new CBA about how buyout penalties are levied against a team for a player forced to retire prior to fulfilling a "Luongo Rule" contract due to injury.

He's a very good hockey player, and he still has a lot of upside.
- John Jaeckel

You were talking before about how good he is in the corners regardless of his lack of size and when you have a guy with that much heart and determination it doesn't really matter how big he is because he will make things happen out there. Just really nice to see his toughness and determination on display again and again and I also see him getting creamed on a fairly regular basis but just like Andrew Shaw does, he pops right back up like jack in the box. I think this guy has an incredible upside/potential and he has all of the intangibles that coaches love but can't teach.

Are the ramifications of a buy out the same as if he retires?
- John Jaeckel

I think so, but don't know for sure.

Last year, as a 40 year old, Jaromir Jagr had 54 points in 73 games (making $3.3 million). Teemu Selanne, as a 41 year old, had 66 points in 82 games (making $4 million).

Someone please tell me again why the Hawks HAVE to buy out Hossa?
- John Jaeckel

How much money again are remaining on those other guys contracts?

Last year, as a 40 year old, Jaromir Jagr had 54 points in 73 games. Teemu Selanne, as a 41 year old, had 66 points in 82 games.

Someone please tell me again why the Hawks HAVE to buy out Hossa?
- John Jaeckel

I'm with you.

Hossa shows all the signs of a prototypical crafty old euro vet. Highly skilled, physically fit, incredibly smart and very adaptable. His strong defensive play will be even more valuable when his scoring eventually dips.

He's made for that role. The only question is health. Same as any player in the league.

Last year, as a 40 year old, Jaromir Jagr had 54 points in 73 games (making $3.3 million). Teemu Selanne, as a 41 year old, had 66 points in 82 games (making $4 million).

Someone please tell me again why the Hawks HAVE to buy out Hossa?
- John Jaeckel

And Hossa probably keeps himself in better shape than both of them.

Thanks,

Can you tell me what happens year by year if he plays til age 39 (Spring 2018) and/or age 40 (Spring 2019)—and retires.

Obviously, it's a 5.275 million cap hit every year til then. But he is also ostensibly adding some value as a player.

What are the ramifications of a retirement toward the end of his deal under the new CBA?
- John Jaeckel

Hossa Buyout at the end of 2018 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2018-2019 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2021-2022 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2023-2024 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Hossa Buyout at the end of 2019 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2021-2022 $4,608,333 + 0 = 4,608,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Those are some tough numbers to digest.

If the player retires, the team is still on the hook for the cap advantage number. I'm not sure what happens if he retires due to injury. Since Hossa's contract pays out minimal money at the end, the cap advantage hit is larger the longer he plays.

Easiest just to go here: http://capgeek.com/buyout...3&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15 and spin the year selection.
- MartiniMan

Correct. And for the players with long term contracts before the lockout, you have to add in this:

http://capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/


Just for fun, look at what Suter and Parise could possibly cost the Wild.

I think so, but don't know for sure.
- MartiniMan

Let's figure that one out.

I hear the argument for why they might buy him out. But now, let me present the other side (and any blogger or writer who tries to co-opt this, WILL be publicly called out):

Very simply, it's entirely a cap space issue, not so much what Wirtz actually pays Hossa.

Hossa's actually salary is (and has been) $7.9 million a year until 2016, at which point, it goes DOWN to $4 million a year for a year, then $1 million a year for the last 4 years of the deal.

OK, so the cap goes down next year, that's a given. But the Hawks are in pretty good shape vis a vis the cap next year (with Hossa's $5.275 million against it).

Where it potentially becomes a problem is in the summer of 2015, when you can no longer make a compliance buyout.

From 2005-06 to 2011-12, the cap went up every year, going from $39 million the first year to 64.3 million last year, $70 million, if you count this season.

The cap adjusts to $64.3 million next season. Based on average growth in the cap, you can estimate that the cap for 2015-2016, the first year of a Kane/Toews extension, the cap will be about $70 million or more.

So how is Hossa's likely fairly reasonable $5.275 cap hit (and Keith's) going to pre-empt re-signing Kane or Toews?

Again, I'm not sure what the cap ramifications are of Hossa retiring at age 39 or 40. But it seems to me the best scenario for the Hawks is for him to keep playing, especially if he can past 2016.

Hossa Buyout at the end of 2018 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2018-2019 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2021-2022 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2023-2024 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Hossa Buyout at the end of 2019 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2021-2022 $4,608,333 + 0 = 4,608,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Those are some tough numbers to digest.

If the player retires, the team is still on the hook for the cap advantage number. I'm not sure what happens if he retires due to injury. Since Hossa's contract pays out minimal money at the end, the cap advantage hit is larger the longer he plays.
- Tanuki

Thanks but I'm interested to know what it costs them specifically if he retires at age 39 or 40.

Hossa Buyout at the end of 2018 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2018-2019 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2021-2022 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2023-2024 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Hossa Buyout at the end of 2019 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2021-2022 $4,608,333 + 0 = 4,608,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Those are some tough numbers to digest.

If the player retires, the team is still on the hook for the cap advantage number. I'm not sure what happens if he retires due to injury. Since Hossa's contract pays out minimal money at the end, the cap advantage hit is larger the longer he plays.
- Tanuki

$13.8M cap hit if he retires after the 2019 or 2020 seasons?!

Hossa Buyout at the end of 2018 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2018-2019 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $6,125,000 = $10,733,333
2021-2022 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333
2023-2024 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Hossa Buyout at the end of 2019 (First number is buyout cap hit, second is cap advantage hit)
2019-2020 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2020-2021 $4,608,333 + $9,187,500 = $13,795,833
2021-2022 $4,608,333 + 0 = 4,608,333
2022-2023 $333,333 + 0 = $333,333


Those are some tough numbers to digest.

If the player retires, the team is still on the hook for the cap advantage number. I'm not sure what happens if he retires due to injury. Since Hossa's contract pays out minimal money at the end, the cap advantage hit is larger the longer he plays.
- Tanuki

Which is a cap hit (and that only) that is the difference between his original cap hit and actual salary?

$13.8M cap hit if he retires after the 2019 or 2020 seasons?!
- blackhawk24

The chart refers to buyout.

Let's figure that one out.

I hear the argument for why they might buy him out. But now, let me present the other side (and any blogger or writer who tries to co-opt this, WILL be publicly called out):

Very simply, it's entirely a cap space issue, not so much what Wirtz actually pays Hossa.

Hossa's actually salary is (and has been) $7.9 million a year until 2016, at which point, it goes DOWN to $4 million a year for a year, then $1 million a year for the last 4 years of the deal.

OK, so the cap goes down next year, that's a given. But the Hawks are in pretty good shape vis a vis the cap next year (with Hossa's $5.275 million against it).

Where it potentially becomes a problem is in the summer of 2015, when you can no longer make a compliance buyout.

From 2005-06 to 2011-12, the cap went up every year, going from $39 million the first year to 64.3 million last year, $70 million, if you count this season.

The cap adjusts to $64.3 million next season. Based on average growth in the cap, you can estimate that the cap for 2015-2016, the first year of a Kane/Toews extension, the cap will be about $70 million or more.

So how is Hossa's likely fairly reasonable $5.275 cap hit (and Keith's) going to pre-empt re-signing Kane or Toews?

Again, I'm not sure what the cap ramifications are of Hossa retiring at age 39 or 40. But it seems to me the best scenario for the Hawks is for him to keep playing, especially if he can past 2016.
- John Jaeckel

Do you happen to have the other hockey websites (besides CapGeek) that had these calculators or at least published tables on retiring players? I remember a site referenced right here on HB and thought I book-marked it but can't find it now. It's really bothersome because those numbers I saw were considerably lower than what CapGeek shows for Hossa.

My .02 cents

Hossa, buyout is crazy talk. I appreciate the facts and figures provided by many. My compliments to those adding great value dimension to our board.

Bolland, he is the guy that has to figure out how to be number 2 center and productive. I love the guy and think he brings a lot of playoff demeanor to the team, however, bigger picture, with Shaw and Kruger and even Danualt on the horizon he/hawks have to figure out his true value. If he really ends up just being that 3rd line guy, then yes he is shopped this summer.

Stalberg, goes nowhere for now and will be dealt with in the summer. I am sure they will do what they can to keep him. I think they want to keep him and depending upon bolland and a few other variables, they may find a way. His trade value is small without having a deal in place. The hawks will not agree to any deal that is not a deal that makes sense for them, so for now, both sides will be content to let things play out.

Bollig, just loved how he has played of late. Playing as a hockey player. He is not running around trying to prove something, he is playing hockey and letting things come to him and serving as a ever present reminder that if a toll needs to be paid, he will be around to collect it.

Leddy, same, going nowhere. Will be addressed in summer. Same with Kruger.

I am probably missing some stuff, but great board today. Lets start looking at more trade targets. 2 Categories, 1. Higher end guys, if there are big injuries to core, and 2 and more importantly, those role guys. We all know I love Hendricks. Wonder what else we can come up with or the club may have on the wish list.

Let's figure that one out.

I hear the argument for why they might buy him out. But now, let me present the other side (and any blogger or writer who tries to co-opt this, WILL be publicly called out):

Very simply, it's entirely a cap space issue, not so much what Wirtz actually pays Hossa.

Hossa's actually salary is (and has been) $7.9 million a year until 2016, at which point, it goes DOWN to $4 million a year for a year, then $1 million a year for the last 4 years of the deal.

OK, so the cap goes down next year, that's a given. But the Hawks are in pretty good shape vis a vis the cap next year (with Hossa's $5.275 million against it).

Where it potentially becomes a problem is in the summer of 2015, when you can no longer make a compliance buyout.

From 2005-06 to 2011-12, the cap went up every year, going from $39 million the first year to 64.3 million last year, $70 million, if you count this season.

The cap adjusts to $64.3 million next season. Based on average growth in the cap, you can estimate that the cap for 2015-2016, the first year of a Kane/Toews extension, the cap will be about $70 million or more.

So how is Hossa's likely fairly reasonable $5.275 cap hit (and Keith's) going to pre-empt re-signing Kane or Toews?

Again, I'm not sure what the cap ramifications are of Hossa retiring at age 39 or 40. But it seems to me the best scenario for the Hawks is for him to keep playing, especially if he can past 2016.
- John Jaeckel

Once again....