How much money again are remaining on those other guys contracts?
- blackhawk24

Doesn't matter, and it seems you are assuming he MUST be bought out at some point.

What I'm getting at is what will his relative value be in 2018 or 2019 numbers, based on his cap hit then and his likely production— because I am working on the assumption (here) that he plays out most or all of his contract.

Do you happen to have the other hockey websites (besides CapGeek) that had these calculators or at least published tables on retiring players? I remember a site referenced right here on HB and thought I book-marked it but can't find it now. It's really bothersome because those numbers I saw were considerably lower than what CapGeek shows for Hossa.
- blackhawk24

To me, the whole thing comes down to two things: what the Hawks project the cap will do over time, and how the Hawks project Hossa as a hockey asset over the remainder of or most of the remainder of his contract.

The cap is likely going to go up somewhat over time. ALL available data pojnts to that.

But if they think he is going to appreciably decline, then a buyout makes sense.

If not, holding on to him probably makes more sense.

Which is a cap hit (and that only) that is the difference between his original cap hit and actual salary?
- John Jaeckel

Here is an article from Yahoo! Sports in January that attempts to explain the projected cap hit from retirement:

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...racts-153717517--nhl.html

Basically, as I read the article, the Hawks will be responsible for whatever savings they see on the contract over the life of the contract.

Well said! No way you move Bolland before the PO. However, I think before the draft or some time in the OS he is gone. This team cannot afford him and they have possible replacements on the way.

Regarding the Sharp discussion. Could Sharp be a buyout possibility? Remember, each team has 2. They may end up buying him out to see another top 6 guy come back at a cheaper hit. There will be some quality players being bought out - not only dregs like Montador.
- tredbrta

Trade (if he accepts but no player wants to stay where they are not wanted so I say he accepts) or buyout IMO. Good player but not at 5.9 milllion. I dont think we are getting the bang for our buck. As well we good get a good return....its just good business.

I think McNeil and a roster player go to Toronto for Tyler Bozak. Leafs wanted McNeil at his draft year and the Hawks have plenty of pipeline centers. I think they can afford to send one away. Bozak is 1.5 mil rental since hes a UFA at the end of the season. Fits under the cap by 1+ mil even if the hawks don't move a roster player. Leafs also make room to make another trade. JJ said Leafs scouts were at a Rockford game. Maybe they're looking for a Ryan Stanton. Just my thinking.
- erhryck

Sharp for Bozak...done.

I would also try Karlsson because we can afford to with 51 points
Stats and wins aside
I may get shot for this but I cannot see starting Emery in a big playoff game
His post to post move is slow...very slow
He fumbles the puck and just looks awkward
If he was playing for almost any other team right now he would look as bad as he is

I like Crawford
Try Karlsson
- PEIHawkFan

I would also try Karlsson because we can afford to with 51 points
Stats and wins aside
I may get shot for this but I cannot see starting Emery in a big playoff game
His post to post move is slow...very slow
He fumbles the puck and just looks awkward
If he was playing for almost any other team right now he would look as bad as he is

I like Crawford
Try Karlsson
- PEIHawkFan

Sorry for the double post.

Karlsson better not be seen or we are in trouble. He got chances in Calgary and blew them all. He hasn't shown much in Rockford either to my knowledge.

Thanks but I'm interested to know what it costs them specifically if he retires at age 39 or 40.
- John Jaeckel

I hope I am answering your question.
It's my understanding that it would be the cap advantage hit:

Hossa retires at age 39 - cap hit:
2018-2019 $6,125,000
2019-2020 $6,125,000
2020-2021 $6,125,000

Hossa retires at age 40 - cap his:
2019-2020 $9,187,500
2020-2021 $9,187,500

Across the board every one on defense has seen their ice time go down. So it's more or less Q being confident with every one out there. So as much as Hammer and Oduya are out there more it's not because of the play of Seabs and Keith but more to do with the depth as a unit.
- UnnamedSource

Impossible for everyone's ice time to go down: you still need 120 minutes of defensemen per game.

Don't have last year's numbers, but aren't 3-4 and 5-6 icetimes up?

I think so, but don't know for sure.
- MartiniMan

On a buy-out, isn't that the end of the cap-hits? Isn't that the definition of a buy-out?

KRUGMAN!
- UnnamedSource

That Keynesian scumbag. If he ran the league everyone would be paid the max salary and the final would be against alien invaders.

Most over rated economist of all time.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The back-end penalty if Hossa retires early is the original savings on the front end of the contract (actual salary minus cap hit), spread out over the remaining years of his deal.

That figure is going to be $13.375 million (actual salary minus cap hit, 2.675 million per year from 2009-2010 through 2014-2015).

So what this thing come down to—without a buyout— is dead cap hit of somewhere between $3.4 million a year for four years if he retires in say 2018 and $13 million for one year if he retires in 2020.

Right?

Or, $5.275 per if he plays.

Or $1.3 or 1.8 per for 7-8 years if he's bought out?

Impossible for everyone's ice time to go down: you still need 120 minutes of defensemen per game.

Don't have last year's numbers, but aren't 3-4 and 5-6 icetimes up?
- StLBravesFan

Keith's time is down about 3 minutes per game, Seabs is down just over 2 minutes. Leddy is also down about 3 minutes. Oduya is up 1 minute and Hjalmarsson is up almost 1 minute too. The big difference is the 6th d-man. If we use Rozsival and Montador as examples the 6th D man is playing about 3 minutes more.

I hope I am answering your question.
It's my understanding that it would be the cap advantage hit:

Hossa retires at age 39 - cap hit:
2018-2019 $6,125,000
2019-2020 $6,125,000
2020-2021 $6,125,000

Hossa retires at age 40 - cap his:
2019-2020 $9,187,500
2020-2021 $9,187,500
- Tanuki

But my math says the total cap savings (vs. actual salary) was: $7.9 million minus $5.275 million for each of five years, or a total of $13.375 million.

Or am I wrong?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The back-end penalty if Hossa retires early is the original savings on the front end of the contract (actual salary minus cap hit), spread out over the remaining years of his deal.

That figure is going to be $13.375 million (actual salary minus cap hit, 2.675 million per year from 2009-2010 through 2014-2015).

So what this thing come down to—without a buyout— is dead cap hit of somewhere between $3.4 million a year for four years if he retires in say 2018 and $13 million for one year if he retires in 2020.

Right?

Or, $5.275 per if he plays.

Or $1.3 or 1.8 per for 7-8 years if he's bought out?
- John Jaeckel

Doesn't matter, and it seems you are assuming he MUST be bought out at some point.

What I'm getting at is what will his relative value be in 2018 or 2019 numbers, based on his cap hit then and his likely production— because I am working on the assumption (here) that he plays out most or all of his contract.
- John Jaeckel

Okay, I've been reading up on this since you posed the question. What appears to be the "answer" is that basically the rule looks at the amount of cap hit ($5.2 MM per season times however many seasons Hossa plays) versus the amount he was actually paid. Assuming the amount paid is greater than the amount of cap hit, the total savings is then divided by the total remaining years on the contract.

For example, if Hossa retired after the 2016-2017 season, he would have been paid $59.3 MM over the life of his contract, but would have only counted against the cap for $42.2 MM. The Hawks would then be responsible for the difference (17.1MM) over the total remaining years of the contract (4), for a total cap penalty of $4.275 per season.

The interesting thing is that because of the way that the Hawks structured the deal, the cap hit penalty is the same if Hossa retires after 2016-2017 as it would be if he retired in any of the remaining years of his deal (albeit, the Hawks would have that penalty through the remainder of the deal).

The only way it is much different is if he retires after the 2015-2016 season when his cap hit penalty for the remaining time on his contract would be $3.675 MM per season.

And Hossa probably keeps himself in better shape than both of them.
- furso27

But Hossa also has concussion issues. Hossa rocks but Rocky has to look at the risk/return. I would be concerned over his reaction to hard hits this year.

As some have pointed out. If it were a decision of buying out Hossa in order to lock in Toews and Kane for 8 years it would be a no brainer.

I haven't looked at the numbers yet but would a Sharp buyout or trade (in the OS of course) give them the same flexibility?

That Keynesian scumbag. If he ran the league everyone would be paid the max salary and the final would be against alien invaders.

Most over rated economist of all time.
- tredbrta

Redundant statement

I hope I am answering your question.
It's my understanding that it would be the cap advantage hit:

Hossa retires at age 39 - cap hit:
2018-2019 $6,125,000
2019-2020 $6,125,000
2020-2021 $6,125,000

Hossa retires at age 40 - cap his:
2019-2020 $9,187,500
2020-2021 $9,187,500
- Tanuki

This is not correct. Basically the answer is this: The league is looking at what you were paid in your salary versus what your cap hit was. It is then dividing the cap hit savings against the remaining years on your deal.

This is not correct. Basically the answer is this: The league is looking at what you were paid in your salary versus what your cap hit was. It is then dividing the cap hit savings against the remaining years on your deal.
- QStache

Q, this came from Capgeek.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The back-end penalty if Hossa retires early is the original savings on the front end of the contract (actual salary minus cap hit), spread out over the remaining years of his deal.

That figure is going to be $13.375 million (actual salary minus cap hit, 2.675 million per year from 2009-2010 through 2014-2015).

So what this thing come down to—without a buyout— is dead cap hit of somewhere between $3.4 million a year for four years if he retires in say 2018 and $13 million for one year if he retires in 2020.

Right?

Or, $5.275 per if he plays.

Or $1.3 or 1.8 per for 7-8 years if he's bought out?
- John Jaeckel

Only 1 problem is that the cap savings if he retires with one year remaining is fairly insignificant ($4.275 MM), not $13 million. Hossa still counts as a $5.275 MM hit each year of the contract, but by year 11 will have earned $62.3 MM versus a cap hit over the 11 years of the contract of $58.025 MM.

Q, this came from Capgeek.
- Tanuki

Then, I hate to say it, but CapGeek is wrong. Or it is not providing an appropriate calculator.

But Hossa also has concussion issues. Hossa rocks but Rocky has to look at the risk/return. I would be concerned over his reaction to hard hits this year.

As some have pointed out. If it were a decision of buying out Hossa in order to lock in Toews and Kane for 8 years it would be a no brainer.

I haven't looked at the numbers yet but would a Sharp buyout or trade (in the OS of course) give them the same flexibility?
- tredbrta

Seriously, over 50% of the players in the league have "concussion" issues. Crosby has them—worse than Hossa.

Toews has them, and by the definition you're probably using, WORSE than Hossa's. So you're gonna chuck one guy in order to pay the guy with more concussions and games missed $9 million a year.

Not buying it.

And then, say you make the genius move and buy Hossa out next year. What if he turns around and signs with LA, San Jose or Vancouver? You just cut off your nose to spite your face.

Again, if the guy can still play, which it appears he can, a buyout does not make a ton of sense other than being a very frightened organization that's iust really pulling in its horns and anticipating lower league revenues and poor performance by the team itself.

That Keynesian scumbag. If he ran the league everyone would be paid the max salary and the final would be against alien invaders.

Most over rated economist of all time.
- tredbrta

sigh....there is always one in the crowd.

This is not correct. Basically the answer is this: The league is looking at what you were paid in your salary versus what your cap hit was. It is then dividing the cap hit savings against the remaining years on your deal.
- QStache

Which would be $13.375 million