So we're writing off rookies who made the jump from the NCAA, I see. And there's no chance he'll be any better in his second year either. Weren't you the guy who thought the AHL was a wasteland for top young players, and that guys should develop in the NHL?
- mykokes

Still believe that 100%. If Gardiner was better then what is here now then I'd say do whatever it takes to get him here. He just isn't.

And you can't tell me that Kadri wouldn't be even better had he played here last year.

I think the Leaf brass see's that differently.
- honesthockey

I really don't. They are seeing what they have in Kostka, Holzer and Frasor. They want Gardiner to get minutes so they are playing him in the AHL. He'll be up shortly after they deal a defensemen.

been working pretty well for most of the year. Dion's a lot better because of it.
- Big_Lightnin

Majority of the season, the holzer and kostka pairing with phaneuf was beyond terrible. Every night goals were scored. Franson is the better pairing for him

Then why isn't he here? You'd do anything to get him in the lineup if that was a fact.
- honesthockey

He was here, for two games, it was clear he wasn't back to 100% from the concussion. Safe play was to send him down and get him back to speed. Then the Leafs were winning, you don't mess with a winning team. Now they're not, opportunity is knocking.

Craziness.. I am not a fan of religion.. at all... And I was brought up Protestant, same as you were.

Quickly became a non-believer, as I grew up. It is not for me.
- bixll

yeah same here. I am not religious at all. science and knowledge are my religions

however i wont turn a blind eye to a culture that contains nearly 20% of the world's population

and thats just the catholics.. add the protestants in and you have a major chunk of the world body

Franson (who was a -1 anyways) played half a year and minimal minutes so I didn't include him.
- Lipchitz

57 GP, 16+ mins.

if we use your criteria, Leafs only had 3 D-men last year... yippity (frank) leading 3 guys in +/-, both of whom played more mins.

And he was still -2. so again, yippity (frank)

Yeah and your point?
- Mapleleafs_91

Someone just said Carlylye wont play RD at the LD spot yet he's played Phaneuf on his off-wing all year.

He's terrible in his own end. If he was anything but the Leafs would be insane not to have him in the lineup. His defensive liability out way his offensive upside.
- honesthockey

So u would rather have kostka playing ?

been working pretty well for most of the year. Dion's a lot better because of it.
- Big_Lightnin

Dion has looked brutal all year, not sure what games you have been watching. It is nice to see the physicality coming back though.

Whats the difference between a Lady in church and lady in the bathtub?
- senstroll

Is there water in the tub...if so - one is wet?
The woman in church has hope in her soul...

Majority of the season, the holzer and kostka pairing with phaneuf was beyond terrible. Every night goals were scored. Franson is the better pairing for him
- Mapleleafs_91

I'll be here in 3-4 games when you're female doging about how bad Franson is


Goals are scored just about every game. It's kind of the point...

Mike Augello: Leafs Wanting In Winnipeg; The #FreeJakeGardiner Flap
- mikeinbuffalo

If Gardiner starts whining....keep him in the AHL all season.

Still believe that 100%. If Gardiner was better then what is here now then I'd say do whatever it takes to get him here. He just isn't.

And you can't tell me that Kadri wouldn't be even better had he played here last year.
- honesthockey

And there goes your credibility.

Gardiner will be a Leaf...he's just got to hang on to his wee willy for a couple weeks, dominate in the A in the meantime and he'll be up there quicker than you can say The Oliers have missed the playoffs again.
- Your_Mom

Nino is a top prospect and power forwards hold great value also.

Dion has looked brutal all year, not sure what games you have been watching. It is nice to see the physicality coming back though.
- Lipchitz

I'm watching the games not shown in "I hate Phaneuf-o-vision"

how about you?

He was here, for two games, it was clear he wasn't back to 100% from the concussion. Safe play was to send him down and get him back to speed. Then the Leafs were winning, you don't mess with a winning team. Now they're not, opportunity is knocking.
- mykokes

The chemistry thing is a great excuse for why. I call bullpoop. Carlyle isn't a 12 year old school girl so see's the whole picture.

Someone just said Carlylye wont play RD at the LD spot yet he's played Phaneuf on his off-wing all year.
- Lipchitz

Phaneuf belongs on the LD, not the RD. Phaneuf misses 90 percent of his shots on the RD, at least carlyle knows that unlike wilson

But the fact that carlyle uses this tactic for all 3 pairings when there is better players to be played, is beyond stupid.

2/3 pairing can have both a LD/RD, your telling me one pairing cant have both LD/LD, give me a break

Still believe that 100%. If Gardiner was better then what is here now then I'd say do whatever it takes to get him here. He just isn't.

And you can't tell me that Kadri wouldn't be even better had he played here last year.
- honesthockey

Been a long time Kadri fan. I thought he actually earned a spot with this team two years ago playing on the third line and doing well---so that's moot.

Gardiner was great last year for spurts, and was clearly not up to par in others. That's what happens with 21 year old d-men. He's not in the AHL because he wasn't good enough to make this team, he's there because he was hurt and others grabbed onto the opportunity. Now we're seeing those others falter a little bit, the pendulum swings.

Still believe that 100%. If Gardiner was better then what is here now then I'd say do whatever it takes to get him here. He just isn't.

And you can't tell me that Kadri wouldn't be even better had he played here last year.
- honesthockey

Are you familiar with St. Andrews?

So u would rather have kostka playing ?
- The_Vark

Abso-(frank)ing-lutely

I'll be here in 3-4 games when you're female doging about how bad Franson is


Goals are scored just about every game. It's kind of the point...
- Big_Lightnin

Franson has been arguably our best defender this season, ive never female doged about him once this season

Are you from Aurora or familiar with St. Andrews?
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Yes my 3 sons went there.

The chemistry thing is a great excuse for why. I call bullpoop. Carlyle isn't a 12 year old school girl so see's the whole picture.
- honesthockey

It has more to do with ability to make a roster move than reliability though.

If Gunnar or Fraser gets hurt tomorrow night and goes LTIR, Gardiner would be up for Saturday's game.

The chemistry thing is a great excuse for why. I call bullpoop. Carlyle isn't a 12 year old school girl so see's the whole picture.
- honesthockey

Chemistry? What are you talking about? Answer this, if Carlyle didn't like him or want to use him, why did he play 2 games? Why did he play over 21 minutes his last game up?

As for the whole picture, he was coming off a concussion and the Leafs had the luxury of bringing him back slow. Then this team got hot, so who do you pull from the lineup?

Yes my 3 sons went there.
- honesthockey

My cousin is captain of the Saints hockey team.