Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer
Oilers improve to 5-2-1 and 15/40 on PP with Shawn Horcoff in line-up with just 4 wins in 17 GP when he is out


Without Horc PP was 10/60 or 16.67%. 37.5% with him
- Lahey

That is useless. Horcoff is playing in Smyths spot on the PP. Mike Brown would have improved our numbers.

Even more skewed than I thought. So is it a coincidence or not? Good record when the captain plays, disgustingly bad when he's out.
- BestRapperAlive

Well the PP is skewed a lot. I don't expect to see it above 30% with Horc, but the fact is he is our best faceoff guy. If he doesn't win the draw he knows how to retrieve the puck. He's a good gopher on the PP, that knows and follows his role.

As for the team as a whole, Horc brings a hard working shutdown effort that no other center on this team can do. He compliments this team quite well and takes pressure off the younget playeras.

That is useless. Horcoff is playing in Smyths spot on the PP. Mike Brown would have improved our numbers.
- bsteinley

It's Horc's spot now. It was his last year too.

Richard Cloutier: The Shawn Horcoff Miracle
- Maxbone

Players have come out and said how much they like having Horcoff around, how he gets people to play hard, and how dedicated he is.

He is overpaid. That's pretty much the only thing wrong with him imo.

He's signed for two more years at low salary. We've already weathered the storm with him. I wouldn't be surprised to see him stick around. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a lifetime Oiler, re-signing at a cheap contract for his last year or two.

I know people.
- Lahey

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Players have come out and said how much they like having Horcoff around, how he gets people to play hard, and how dedicated he is.

He is overpaid. That's pretty much the only thing wrong with him imo.

He's signed for two more years at low salary. We've already weathered the storm with him. I wouldn't be surprised to see him stick around. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a lifetime Oiler, re-signing at a cheap contract for his last year or two.
- Morris

How can I believe you when Cloutiers imagination told him that Horcoff is the cancer of the locker room.

- Oilersforlife[/URL]

It was an act of desperation by Kevin Lowe. Everyone knows this story. UFA's wouldn't sign in Edmonton, so Lowe attempted to make an example of Horcoff by giving him a monstrous contract to show the rest of the league that the Oilers were willing to spend big bucks. The plan backfired horrendously. Not only did UFA's continue to avoid Edmonton, but Horcoff quit doing the things that got him the big contract in the first place.

- Maxbone

Take a look at two players in their three years leading up to a big contract extension

Player A
79GP 22G 51A 73P 52.7%FO 19:58/G
80GP 16G 35A 51P 50.6% FO 20:49/G
53GP 21G 29A 50P 50.6% FO 22:13/G

Player B
80GP 21G 16A 37P 53% FO 19:03/G
82GP 26G 33A 59P 54% FO 19:47/G
82GP 25G 50A 75P 55.1% FO 19:37/G

The numbers aren't dissimilar. I'd expect them to get similar contract figures. And they did.

Horcoff was overpaid, but it wasn't as if he was overpaid by 4 million when they signed him. He was certainly looking like an above-average 2nd line centre.

Hey richard was thinking of a few teams in need of shake up whats your thoughts. To edmonton ilya brygalof wayne simmonds luke and braydon schenn. To philly choice between khabulin or dubnyk( amnesty save and cap save) nick shultz ales hemsky and eric belanger
- Joshc

OMG that is stupid...

Not only will the Oilers keep Horcoff for the rest of his contract but they'll sign him to a new, shiny 3 year deal after that.

Not only will the Oilers keep Horcoff for the rest of his contract but they'll sign him to a new, shiny 3 year deal after that.
- Oildrum

Wouldn't be surprised. Something like two years, 1.25 per. Might be useful to keep him as a 4C.

Besides, does anyone else have the feeling both Smyth and Belanger are going to retire after this season anyway?

Wouldn't be surprised. Something like two years, 1.25 per. Might be useful to keep him as a 4C.

Besides, does anyone else have the feeling both Smyth and Belanger are going to retire after this season anyway?
- Morris

so there's that.

EDIT: yes I get the sense and Horcoff is welcome on this team going forward.

Richard Cloutier: The Shawn Horcoff Miracle
- Maxbone

The funny thing about Horcoff is that his advanced puck possession stats always showed that he's actually been a really solid player for the Oilers. He basically handled the toughest minutes of all the forwards on the team and did it well. Low offensive zone starts, playing against the other team's top players, and a little unlucky with shooting %'s all make him seem worse than he really is. Without question, the Oilers are a better team with Horcoff in the lineup.

When does Kruger sit Nail because he is a defensive liability. Healthy scratch coming..?

I know people.
- Lahey

so there's that.

EDIT: yes I get the sense and Horcoff is welcome on this team going forward.
- Salvo

I'm not for or against him. I just think that if he ends up playing his contract to term for the Oilers, it would indicate to me a likelihood for the 36 year old to finish his career with the team that drafted him, at severely reduced pay that is.

The funny thing about Horcoff is that his advanced puck possession stats always showed that he's actually been a really solid player for the Oilers. He basically handled the toughest minutes of all the forwards on the team and did it well. Low offensive zone starts, playing against the other team's top players, and a little unlucky with shooting %'s all make him seem worse than he really is. Without question, the Oilers are a better team with Horcoff in the lineup.
- Nucker101

You look at last year's conventional stats, you see a guy that had a BAD year.

You look at last year's advanced stats, you see a guy who without question had one of the toughest forward assignment in the NHL.

The truth lies somewhere in between. He's a good depth player playing way over his head, to fleeting success.

The situation with Horcoff is like the situation we used to have with Gomez, for a low salary they are not that bad, just overpaid by a bit.

You need to wake up... not us

The funny thing about Horcoff is that his advanced puck possession stats always showed that he's actually been a really solid player for the Oilers. He basically handled the toughest minutes of all the forwards on the team and did it well. Low offensive zone starts, playing against the other team's top players, and a little unlucky with shooting %'s all make him seem worse than he really is. Without question, the Oilers are a better team with Horcoff in the lineup.
- Nucker101

I dont like Horcoff but if he is not going any Pwhere then keep him as a 4th line center,yes I know best pay 4th liner and yea He did show how well of a teamate he is at the lock out negotiations with his comments.

You look at last year's conventional stats, you see a guy that had a BAD year.

You look at last year's advanced stats, you see a guy who without question had one of the toughest forward assignment in the NHL.

The truth lies somewhere in between. He's a good depth player playing way over his head, to fleeting success.
- Morris

Fair enough, the advanced stats show that he's capable of being a really solid second line center, but I agree with you that in reality he''s just a pretty good 3rd line center. His conventional stats would look a lot better if he was played in more favourable situations. With a guy like Horcoff out, a young guy like RNH has had to play harder minutes.

I think any kind of hockey writer who uses twitter beefs, or posters comments, to base an article on, looks absolutely ridiculous on them. As pathetic as other certain bloggers are (Garth), you never seem to see them openly sparring with posters, or writing articles to mock them. You're openly pandering to the 13 year old side of your fanbase, and it makes you look like an unprofessional goof. That being said, your articles are usually worth a quick read at the worst of times.

Horcoff is obviously grossly overpaid. Tyler bozak is a good comparison, better talent wise, but less of a leader. Is that worth an extra 5 mil a season? Hardly. He obviously as a big impact on the team, and being overpaid isn't his fault as a player. From an outside fans perspective, it is what it is. He isn't going anywhere til that contract is dusted, so probably best to deal with the positives you get from him.

I've always been suprised he has such a solid reputation as a team guy. Heard a story from a player who dropped the gloves for horcoff on numerous occasions over a few seasons. Told me he ran into horcoff at an airport years later, and stopped to ask him how things were. Horcoff gave him the 'I'm sorry, who the hell are you?'. Long story short, I always took the idea horcoff was a pretty ignorant dude, couldn't give a poop about other people. His reputation now a days would surely indicate otherwise.

Anyways, not an oiler fan by any stretch.. But have they ever become a fun team to watch. Find myself catching alot of oiler games lately. Thumbs up to the fans, definitely deserving of such an entertaining team. Cheers.

You need to wake up... not us
- gardinerfan

Please expand.

OMG that is stupid...

- Iggysbff

Whats stupid about it please elaborate. First off ilya is not the answer in philly needs a different place thats gonna cost something. Also edmonton takes on 4 mil in cap space which philly has none of. Also gireux needs an extension which they cant afford sll the pieces going to philly have expiring contracts after next season. For edmonton braydon schenn is a true second line center his brother can be a 3-4 dman and simmonds is a top 6 winger with size edmonton needs

Fair enough, the advanced stats show that he's capable of being a really solid second line center, but I agree with you that in reality he''s just a pretty good 3rd line center. His conventional stats would look a lot better if he was played in more favourable situations. With a guy like Horcoff out, a young guy like RNH has had to play harder minutes.
- Nucker101

As I posted earlier in the thread, at the time of the contract, he had numbers akin to Kesler leading up to his extension. More like Kesler lite, I guess. Granted, he was 4 years older than Kesler and got 500k more a year (not even factoring in inflation - his deal was two years before Kesler's), but not too long ago he was a legit 3rd line centre.

I just don't see the team keeping him 4 years through the contract and then dumping him with 7m in salary left with few cap troubles. I can with pretty decent certainty that we'll keep him this summer, and next summer he'll probably only go if Nuge and Schultz have ridiculous years next year. It's not clear at present they'll even get a raise on their 3.75 million ELCs, and as you say, without Horcoff, RNH has been having trouble producing at least offensively.