Rough outing for Stolarz was pulled after the 2nd

either way its up to the coach to figure it out and get results. What else is a coach supposed to do?
- JoeRussomanno

Wish I knew.

97.5 talking hockey, saying that perhaps the culture of the organization is to blame for where they are.

sounds like a familiar argument
- the deaninator

Maybe they are reading this thread

That's where we disagree. I blame the whole organization, a lack of practice time, the Flyers' aggressive schedule for the first half of this shortened season, injuries, Lavi, and an under-performing team, at least offensively. Defensively, we have issues, as evidenced by the fact that we went after Weber and Suter only to end up with Foster, Gervais, Lilja and Gustafsson.
- wolfhounds

I've been a fan of the team since the lindros era (i know, not that long, and 30 isn't that old) but looking back, the team seemed to get frustrated with their youth right around that time. Ever since the trade, they are so quick to trade youth/higher round draft picks for aging vets.
06-07 happens, and you hear snider say they're done with the quick fix, and they're sticking with the youth, like the 80's. That literally lasted 1.5 seasons. Now they're back to where they were at that time.

I've been a fan of the team since the lindros era (i know, not that long, and 30 isn't that old) but looking back, the team seemed to get frustrated with their youth right around that time. Ever since the trade, they are so quick to trade youth/higher round draft picks for aging vets.
06-07 happens, and you hear snider say they're done with the quick fix, and they're sticking with the youth, like the 80's. That literally lasted 1.5 seasons. Now they're back to where they were at that time.
- the deaninator

I think they are sticking with the youth...that's why we aren't rumored in any major trades. Now it still might happen, but I'd be shocked if we traded any of our young guys versus Briere, Talbot, Feds, Knuble, etc.

If the Flyers were smart, they'd play out this season, coaching change or no, maybe trade some of the above for draft picks, get some good prospects, and go after some free agents this summer.

I'd rather they miss the playoffs and get some assets rather than make the POs and exit in the first round.

And if it takes the young guys suffering a down year to learn and get stronger for next season, so be it. And if - as MJL, jsaq and other suggest - it takes a coaching change to fully realize the potential of this squad, so be that as well.

Final

Oshawa - 4
Brampton - 1


Laughton 1 assist

Final

Sault Ste. Marie - 5
Kitchener - 3

Alderson - 2 goals & 1 assist
Cousins - 1 assist

Wish I knew.
- wolfhounds

I think you missed or I failed to express what I meant. What do you think is a coach's job?

Our little JVR is growing up and throwing big hits

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417855

I think they are sticking with the youth...that's why we aren't rumored in any major trades. Now it still might happen, but I'd be shocked if we traded any of our young guys versus Briere, Talbot, Feds, Knuble, etc.

If the Flyers were smart, they'd play out this season, coaching change or no, maybe trade some of the above for draft picks, get some good prospects, and go after some free agents this summer.

I'd rather they miss the playoffs and get some assets rather than make the POs and exit in the first round.

And if it takes the young guys suffering a down year to learn and get stronger for next season, so be it. And if - as MJL, jsaq and other suggest - it takes a coaching change to fully realize the potential of this squad, so be that as well.
- wolfhounds

I agree with all this. Maybe I have a minor quibble about trading Talbot, but the rest I am cool with.

I think you missed or I failed to express what I meant. What do you think is a coach's job?
- JoeRussomanno

No, I got it.

A coach's job, in general, is to educate and put his team in the best possible position to win night in, night out.

To change things up a bit...

When Cole Hamels gets rocked, is it Charlie's fault? When Cole Hamels loses 5 starts in a row, should he not start when he comes up next in the rotation?

When Briere isn't scoring - on the PP or 5 v 5 - is a defensive liability but is one of the top paid players on your team, what is a coach supposed to do?

When Coburn and Timonen, theoretically your top 2 defensemen, are leading the league in minor penalties, and one of them is playing with low confidence along with an unattractive +/- rating, what is the coach supposed to do, especially considering we've already got an incredibly weak 3rd pairing?

This season - starting with the last off-season - is a perfect storm of misfortune for the Flyers. I have a hard time putting the majority of the blame on Lavi.

That's where we disagree. I blame the whole organization, a lack of practice time, the Flyers' aggressive schedule for the first half of this shortened season, injuries, Lavi, and an under-performing team, at least offensively. Defensively, we have issues, as evidenced by the fact that we went after Weber and Suter only to end up with Foster, Gervais, Lilja and Gustafsson.
- wolfhounds

You have some points there. First of all, Gervais was signed to be a depth defenseman. Nobody could have foreseen the off Season training to Meszaros. And honestly, what is wrong with Gustafsson? He is a decent young defenseman that is fine for the 3rd pair. And injuries are the only reason why Gervais has played so much, and why Foster is even on the team.
But here's is the point. So what should a Coach do in that situation? He has to adjust to make use of the personnel that he has. This Coach has not done that. As has been pointed out repeatedly. Other Coaches are doing more with far less.

No, I got it.

A coach's job, in general, is to educate and put his team in the best possible position to win night in, night out.

To change things up a bit...

When Cole Hamels gets rocked, is it Charlie's fault? When Cole Hamels loses 5 starts in a row, should he not start when he comes up next in the rotation?

When Briere isn't scoring - on the PP or 5 v 5 - is a defensive liability but is one of the top paid players on your team, what is a coach supposed to do?

When Coburn and Timonen, theoretically your top 2 defensemen, are leading the league in minor penalties, and one of them is playing with low confidence along with an unattractive +/- rating, what is the coach supposed to do, especially considering we've already got an incredibly weak 3rd pairing?

This season - starting with the last off-season - is a perfect storm of misfortune for the Flyers. I have a hard time putting the majority of the blame on Lavi.
- wolfhounds

Baseball is a little different, in that it's far more of an individual sport. When a Pitcher is pitching, it;s the batter against the hitter, and vice versa.
But if Hamels is struggling, the pitching Coach is going to look at film watch his delivery, his arm angle, etc. See if there are any flaws there that is causing the bad outings. They're going to work on things in bullpen sessions between starts. Or will they just say, hey keep doing what you're doing, and you'll come out of it. You just need to work harder Cole!

Why is Timonen and Coburn leading the League in minor penalties. Why are the same breakdowns happening game after game. Same bad line changes, same turnovers. I know, they just need to work harder!

No, I got it.

A coach's job, in general, is to educate and put his team in the best possible position to win night in, night out.

To change things up a bit...

When Cole Hamels gets rocked, is it Charlie's fault? When Cole Hamels loses 5 starts in a row, should he not start when he comes up next in the rotation?

When Briere isn't scoring - on the PP or 5 v 5 - is a defensive liability but is one of the top paid players on your team, what is a coach supposed to do?

When Coburn and Timonen, theoretically your top 2 defensemen, are leading the league in minor penalties, and one of them is playing with low confidence along with an unattractive +/- rating, what is the coach supposed to do, especially considering we've already got an incredibly weak 3rd pairing?

This season - starting with the last off-season - is a perfect storm of misfortune for the Flyers. I have a hard time putting the majority of the blame on Lavi.
- wolfhounds

in the case of Briere you don't keep giving him regular shifts while he's not producing and other guys are in fact producing. Like we have seen Lavy give Briere regular shifts and guys like Rinaldo or Sestito get decreased ice time or waived.

WIth Coburn and Timmonen you can reduce their time as well. However on defense it's kind or tough due to the injuries but the forwards have more depth.

I don't see Peter Deboer having these issues with an even less talented blue line.

You have some points there. First of all, Gervais was signed to be a depth defenseman. Nobody could have foreseen the off Season training to Meszaros. And honestly, what is wrong with Gustafsson? He is a decent young defenseman that is fine for the 3rd pair. And injuries are the only reason why Gervais has played so much, and why Foster is even on the team.
But here's is the point. So what should a Coach do in that situation? He has to adjust to make use of the personnel that he has. This Coach has not done that. As has been pointed out repeatedly. Other Coaches are doing more with far less.
- MJL

I like Gus, and when he first came back from his injury to be paired with Gervais, I was surprised how well they played together. And I think he'll be a solid 5/6 d-man for us in the future. Right now, however, he seems prone mental mistakes and indecision. Is it fatigue?

You could be right. I guess we have a chicken/egg paradox here. Are the players performing poorly because of the system, or are the players simply not executing and making a perfectly good system look bad?

Are Timonen and Coburn leading the league in minor penalties because of the system? Fatigue? Laziness?

in the case of Briere you don't keep giving him regular shifts while he's not producing and other guys are in fact producing. Like we have seen Lavy give Briere regular shifts and guys like Rinaldo or Sestito get decreased ice time or waived.

WIth Coburn and Timmonen you can reduce their time as well. However on defense it's kind or tough due to the injuries but the forwards have more depth.

I don't see Peter Deboer having these issues with an even less talented blue line.
- JoeRussomanno

Or you quit trying to force him to play as a winger. Put him where he can succeed. He has excelled as a center and struggled as a winger through the course of his time in Philly. Lavi still insists on playing him on the wing. Not putting a player in a position to succeed is on the coach.

in the case of Briere you don't keep giving him regular shifts while he's not producing and other guys are in fact producing. Like we have seen Lavy give Briere regular shifts and guys like Rinaldo or Sestito get decreased ice time or waived.

WIth Coburn and Timmonen you can reduce their time as well. However on defense it's kind or tough due to the injuries but the forwards have more depth.

I don't see Peter Deboer having these issues with an even less talented blue line.
- JoeRussomanno

Yup, tough to argue those points, especially regarding Rinaldo and Sestito. I'd bet, however, that management would have a word or two for Lavi if he significantly reduced Briere's play time.

Baseball is a little different, in that it's far more of an individual sport. When a Pitcher is pitching, it;s the batter against the hitter, and vice versa.
But if Hamels is struggling, the pitching Coach is going to look at film watch his delivery, his arm angle, etc. See if there are any flaws there that is causing the bad outings. They're going to work on things in bullpen sessions between starts. Or will they just say, hey keep doing what you're doing, and you'll come out of it. You just need to work harder Cole!

Why is Timonen and Coburn leading the League in minor penalties. Why are the same breakdowns happening game after game. Same bad line changes, same turnovers. I know, they just need to work harder!
- MJL

Agreed, baseball is a different beast entirely. I was trying to draw the parallel between struggling players and the limitations of what a coach can do to get said player out of a slump.

My daughter Caitlynn is a nerd! She won't give me any bottlecaps.

I like Gus, and when he first came back from his injury to be paired with Gervais, I was surprised how well they played together. And I think he'll be a solid 5/6 d-man for us in the future. Right now, however, he seems prone mental mistakes and indecision. Is it fatigue?

You could be right. I guess we have a chicken/egg paradox here. Are the players performing poorly because of the system, or are the players simply not executing and making a perfectly good system look bad?

Are Timonen and Coburn leading the league in minor penalties because of the system? Fatigue? Laziness?
- wolfhounds

No, we have a situation where the blame is shared. However, one has to decide which is the first step to start fixing the issue.

I don't think Laviolette has done enough to keep his job. It's hard to fully evaluate players without them being used properly, which is why I am for a coaching change.

Then when the season ends, review the organization top to bottom. Review Holmgren, the players. Decide how you want to attack the season and off season. Get the right manager and/or coach and move ahead.

Or you quit trying to force him to play as a winger. Put him where he can succeed. He has excelled as a center and struggled as a winger through the course of his time in Philly. Lavi still insists on playing him on the wing. Not putting a player in a position to succeed is on the coach.
- Lexington Flyer

I'm guessing we've all been wondering if moving him to wing is the problem... If that's the issue, and moving him to center is the fix - and it's taken this long to figure out - that's all Lavi, and it's just dumb.

Guess we'll see what's changed tonight.

My daughter Caitlynn is a nerd! She won't give me any bottlecaps.
- SMS4016

Can you return her for a child that will share her candy?

Bryz will start tonight

I don't think Laviolette has done enough to keep his job.
- Jsaquella

See, now that's a different approach to the debate, and one I'd have a hard time arguing against.

Bryz will start tonight
- Jsaquella

Not much choice I suppose, but Bryz needs a break.