I wasn't commenting on value, I was commenting on defensive prowess. Phaneuf, Franson, and Liles are all poor defensively. Ballard would slot into either the 2nd or 3rd pairing.
- Fosco

Phaneuf plays 1/2 the game and they have let in far less goals than the canucks with way worse goalies. What makes you think Phaneuf is not a good defensive guy. Franson is a +9 and has 14 pts. Ballard is not even in this discussion. Liles I will give you but Liles is their 7/8th guy and thats exactly what Ballard would be which is essentially useless.

This is a fact. No one wants him. not even the canucks. How good can he be?
- Bluechip23

How do you know what all 30 GM's think and it's also possible that Gillis has received an offer that he's turned down. Lots of struggling players have been traded in the past, I'm not saying that he has much trade value because I can only speculate and estimate as a fan.

Actually, I'd be right; but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

I was merely responding to Ian's trade; no way that happens unless there's more coming our way.

And I agree, one week doesn't make a career, but Holtby has definitely looked much more comfortable in net than Corey lately; he does have him beat in the playoff department so far, and they are both young, talented goalies.

I live in Van and watch Corey play whenever he starts; I also watch Holtby and every Caps game. To say Corey is the definite better tender is a bit of a jump - both are fairly unproven.

Corey is nowhere near as agile as Holtby (or 'athletic' if you prefer that), but Corey's positioning is probably better. At the moment, Braden seems the more calm one in net, but Nucks have had a fairly poor run lately.
- ghostibator

No you wouldn't be right—you said Holtby outplayed Cory, which isn't true at all.

Disagree with pretty much everything here.
Especially the "calm in the net" comment. There's few in the entire league more calm than Cory. Have you ever heard Kevin Woodley's (Goalie Mag) description of Cory's style? Have a search for it—he sums it up pretty well.

I doubt you'll find anyone who claims Holtby is better than Schneider. That's not a knock on Holtby.

Phaneuf plays 1/2 the game and they have let in far less goals than the canucks with way worse goalies. What makes you think Phaneuf is not a good defensive guy. Franson is a +9 and has 14 pts. Ballard is not even in this discussion. Liles I will give you but Liles is their 7/8th guy and thats exactly what Ballard would be which is essentially useless.
- Bluechip23

I will agree with you that Phaneuf is better all-around than Ballard, he's improved defensively since his days as a Flame IMO.

We were miscommunicating. I was referring to the year before you assumed it was that year. Its called a misunderstanding SON.
- Bluechip23

I wasn't assuming. The discussion was last time about now and you said last yr. You had no clue what you were talking about yet continued with the "no credibility" horse crap, which if I'm not mistaken you used again to try to defend your views. Why don't you stick to lawn bowling or Ringette and leave hockey talk to us. As I said, move along Skippy, I'm sure their is another bridge somewhere else for you to sit under

This is a fact. AV is an idiot and has something personal against him. How good can he be?
- Bluechip23

Fixed.

How do you know what all 30 GM's think and it's also possible that Gillis has received an offer that he's turned down. Lots of struggling players have been traded in the past, I'm not saying that he has much trade value because I can only speculate and estimate as a fan.
- Nucker101

If he does get anything more than a 5th Ill be shocked and Ill be the 1st to admit that I was wrong. I was right about lu and I am pretty sure I will be right about Ballard. Only time will tell.

This is a fact. No one wants him. not even the canucks. How good can he be?
- Bluechip23

His 20 games played this season disagree with you.

Fixed.
- Fosco

I wasn't assuming. The discussion was last time about now and you said last yr. You had no clue what you were talking about yet continued with the "no credibility" horse crap, which if I'm not mistaken you used again to try to defend your views. Why don't you stick to lawn bowling or Ringette and leave hockey talk to us. As I said, move along Skippy, I'm sure their is another bridge somewhere else for you to sit under
- Bieksa#3

I brought plenty of proof based on my assumption of 2009. I play ringette with your mom daily. But I use a different stick "son".

Phaneuf plays 1/2 the game and they have let in far less goals than the canucks with way worse goalies. What makes you think Phaneuf is not a good defensive guy. Franson is a +9 and has 14 pts. Ballard is not even in this discussion. Liles I will give you but Liles is their 7/8th guy and thats exactly what Ballard would be which is essentially useless.
- Bluechip23

Far less goals? They've let in 4 less goals—take away that farce of a game against the Wings, where you could attribute 5 goals directly to the refs, and your argument is gone.

I know Phaneuf is horrible on D because I've watched him for years. He's an oaf with no mobility, smarts, or defensive instincts. He's improved, but he's still a fire-drill on D.

Hell, my entire family back east are Leafs fans, and they agree.

+/- is a fairly useless stat—might as well call it the luck quotient.

I wasn't assuming. The discussion was last time about now and you said last yr. You had no clue what you were talking about yet continued with the "no credibility" horse crap, which if I'm not mistaken you used again to try to defend your views. Why don't you stick to lawn bowling or Ringette and leave hockey talk to us. As I said, move along Skippy, I'm sure their is another bridge somewhere else for you to sit under
- Bieksa#3

I never once said last year when we were discussing it. Why dont you show me where I once said 2010 in my argument with you in regards to Bieksa. I provided evidence on the trade discussion based on the year I was referring to and we moved on. Well I thought we did. But I guess you haven't.

They won't trade either.

Hamhuis is the Canucks best defensive D, and other than Bieksa, they only have one other D (Tanev) who's effective on the right side. And Bieksa's physical play is too valuable.

No way either are moved. Way too valuable.

And I wouldn't see them having to add a pick, either. Teams would be lining up to take either Hamhuis or Bieksa, especially with their contracts.
- Fosco

As far as adding a pick goes,
I meant in a deal like like Booth for a 2mil version of Booth,
Then u might have to add a pick to get a team to do it

What do u see Vancouver doing?
17mil to add 11guys is not much
That why I was thinking possibly Hamhuis or Bieksa would also have to go

I brought plenty of proof based on my assumption of 2009. I play ringette with your mom daily. But I use a different stick "son".
- Bluechip23

Momma jokes.

Well done **slow clap**

I brought plenty of proof based on my assumption of 2009. I play ringette with your mom daily. But I use a different stick "son".
- Bluechip23

assumption sums it up perfectly. You assume and pass it off as a fact.

This is a fact. No one wants him. not even the canucks. How good can he be?
- Bluechip23

seriously? Nobody wants him? Teams want him but in this new cap era his cap hit is high. That is about the only thing stopping most from taking him on. If the MG thought he wasn't worth anything he would have been put on waivers and then we would see nobody wanting him. Your a Gem.

Far less goals? They've let in 4 less goals—take away that farce of a game against the Wings, where you could attribute 5 goals directly to the refs, and your argument is gone.

I know Phaneuf is horrible on D because I've watched him for years. He's an oaf with no mobility, smarts, or defensive instincts. He's improved, but he's still a fire-drill on D.

Hell, my entire family back east are Leafs fans, and they agree.

+/- is a fairly useless stat—might as well call it the luck quotient.
- Fosco

The goalies on the nucks are night and day compared to TO. So when you equalize the skill level of nucks goalies and TO goalies and the fact that TO has played 1 more game. then the difference does make a difference. We cant have a better d and better goalies and have more GA. Its one or the other. Its always easy to blame the refs. This is the reality our team is not good enough this year to hoist the cup. We had our chance in 2010 and MG didint do what he needed to do. Cory shoudl have been traded in 2010 and we wouldnt be having this discussion today because no doubt in my mind if we would have had more balance or toughness we beat the bruins.

assumption sums it up perfectly. You assume and pass it off as a fact.
- Bieksa#3

Never once did I pass it off as fact. Fact is he was in trade rumors. All that we were arguing was the year he was in it.

Momma jokes.

Well done **slow clap**
- Fosco

Stupid is, as stupid does. "Son"

As far as adding a pick goes,
I meant in a deal like like Booth for a 2mil version of Booth,
Then u might have to add a pick to get a team to do it

What do u see Vancouver doing?
17mil to add 11guys is not much
That why I was thinking possibly Hamhuis or Bieksa would also have to go
- jdfitz77

Yeah, that's fair.

I think Lou and Ballard will be gone via trade. Malhotra is also off the books. Likely one or two of Higgins, Lapierre, and Raymond won't be re-signed, either. Maybe Booth out for a pick, as well.

Factor in a couple ELC's as replacements, and a bargain contract or two.

It will definitely be difficult for the Canucks management team to become cap-compliant and stay competitive, but Laurence Gilman (asst GM) is a cap/cba wizard.

Yeah, that's fair.

I think Lou and Ballard will be gone via trade. Malhotra is also off the books. Likely one or two of Higgins, Lapierre, and Raymond won't be re-signed, either. Maybe Booth out for a pick, as well.

Factor in a couple ELC's as replacements, and a bargain contract or two.

It will definitely be difficult for the Canucks management team to become cap-compliant and stay competitive, but Laurence Gilman (asst GM) is a cap/cba wizard.
- Fosco

We agree Fosco. Gilman is the best Front office guy in the NHL. He is the reason almost all the nucks are signed to below market value. He is a negotiating wiz.

The goalies on the nucks are night and day compared to TO. So when you equalize the skill level of nucks goalies and TO goalies and the fact that TO has played 1 more game. then the difference does make a difference. We cant have a better d and better goalies and have more GA. Its one or the other. Its always easy to blame the refs. This is the reality our team is not good enough this year to hoist the cup. We had our chance in 2010 and MG didint do what he needed to do. Cory shoudl have been traded in 2010 and we wouldnt be having this discussion today because no doubt in my mind if we would have had more balance or toughness we beat the bruins.
- Bluechip23

You know what's also factor? The Canucks are slumping, and TO is playing out of their brain, right now. Let's talk after game 48

Yeah, that's fair.

I think Lou and Ballard will be gone via trade. Malhotra is also off the books. Likely one or two of Higgins, Lapierre, and Raymond won't be re-signed, either. Maybe Booth out for a pick, as well.

Factor in a couple ELC's as replacements, and a bargain contract or two.

It will definitely be difficult for the Canucks management team to become cap-compliant and stay competitive, but Laurence Gilman (asst GM) is a cap/cba wizard.
- Fosco

I believe that Lu and Ballard will be traded. Tessier suggesting something like Ballard for Hainsey. I actually believe Booth will be waived

You know what's also factor? The Canucks are slumping, and TO is playing out of their brain, right now. Let's talk after game 48
- Fosco

I totally agree. I dont think the leafs are that good. They have lots of young talent that are playing with incredible confidence. They will be a 6 7 8 seed in the playoffs which is still a BIG IF.