If they don't have smart enough players, it's on the coach to do a better job with what is on hand.

If I have the 1987 Oilers, I'm not going to play a neutral zone trap.
- Jsaquella

In the end then it seems like this comes down to whether one believes another coach will do a better job with what is on hand.

I simply do not think so, and they need to be improved starting with the players on the ice first and foremost. If you had Scotty Bowman out there waiting to replace Lava then I am all for this.

Murray isn't a terrible coach, but he is not a miracle worker.

He just hasn't done the job this year. They are a mess on the ice. Getting by on strictly talent. I don't like to call for a Coach to be removed. In fact I hate it. But I don't see any other explanation. This team should be much better then it is. Problems are not being corrected. Same issues over and over. And it's there regardless of whether they win or lose.
- MJL

Just finished fixing my water heater anyway I thought this would work with Lavy but for whatever reason this team plays recklessly and that won't get you very far. Getting knocked off consistently by two division rivals is a good way to get the axe IMO. Sorry I hate scapegoating myself but there's little choice at this point.

It is definately relevant in the long term. This team wasnt winning jack poop with the group they had on the back end this season. The Flyers simply cant transition creatively. That starts with the D-core, that needs to be fixed.

If the main reason for firing Lava is because the organization believes they can be better with the group that they currently ice, I can live with that. Frankly, I dont think there is much any coach could do with this group. They need to be improved, starting with the players.
- flyer_nutter

If the Flyers can't win with the current group on the blueline, how did the Devils make it to the SCF last season? Other teams are winning with less talent on the blue line because they make adjustments. They get their forwards to back check harder, they make changes to tighten the gap so defensemen not that adept at outlet passing don't have to force high risk passes in the neutral zone.

Nobody is saying that the Flyers have a great defense group. But It's not the worse group going, and there's a couple teams that have worse who are ahead of the Flyers in the standings.

A lot of teams do not play like the Flyers do. I can't name one good team that does. It requires players to be Coached to be smart. To be given a structure in place. It's missing with this team.
- MJL

Chicago plays a highly aggressive style. They swarm the puck, which this team is not built to do, yet they have a coach that preaches that kind of style.

If Holmgren was truly looking for them to be more d-first then Lava should have been fired from day one of this season.

I see a lot of structure to be honest. Where it is lost, is stupidity.

In the end then it seems like this comes down to whether one believes another coach will do a better job with what is on hand.

I simply do not think so, and they need to be improved starting with the players on the ice first and foremost. If you had Scotty Bowman out there waiting to replace Lava then I am all for this.

Murray isn't a terrible coach, but he is not a miracle worker.
- flyer_nutter

Murray hasn't won a playoff series since 1997. He's had three teams with 100 points that were all bounced in the first round. Probably the GM's fault for giving him a dogpoop roster to work with.

In the end then it seems like this comes down to whether one believes another coach will do a better job with what is on hand.

I simply do not think so, and they need to be improved starting with the players on the ice first and foremost. If you had Scotty Bowman out there waiting to replace Lava then I am all for this.

Murray isn't a terrible coach, but he is not a miracle worker.
- flyer_nutter

These guys are careless. Even talbot who is a defensive specialist looks lost in his own zone anymore , I give up with him. You can't fire the team but you can fire the coach.

In the end then it seems like this comes down to whether one believes another coach will do a better job with what is on hand.

I simply do not think so, and they need to be improved starting with the players on the ice first and foremost. If you had Scotty Bowman out there waiting to replace Lava then I am all for this.

Murray isn't a terrible coach, but he is not a miracle worker.
- flyer_nutter

Doesn't need to be a miracle worker, needs to instill discipline and stress the importance of two way play.

Is Peter Deboer a great coach? He got a ragtag blue line to the SCF last year, because he devised a system that shielded them

JVR still ripping poop up. Figured he would have a concussion, broken foot, or torn abdominal muscle by now.

If the Flyers can't win with the current group on the blueline, how did the Devils make it to the SCF last season? Other teams are winning with less talent on the blue line because they make adjustments. They get their forwards to back check harder, they make changes to tighten the gap so defensemen not that adept at outlet passing don't have to force high risk passes in the neutral zone.

Nobody is saying that the Flyers have a great defense group. But It's not the worse group going, and there's a couple teams that have worse who are ahead of the Flyers in the standings.
- Jsaquella

The Flyers had Bryzgalov bleeding bad goals for long stretches last season.

The Devils made it that far because they outworked every team before the Kings. You mention the forwards, and that is one of the biggest issues I see. The back-checking on this team is some of the worst I have ever seen. No consistency. It would also help if the D-core could carry the puck up the ice with creativity. They simply cant do it. That in itself would help decrease the gap between forwards and D.

They should watch a Hawks game.

It is definately relevant in the long term. This team wasnt winning jack poop with the group they had on the back end this season. The Flyers simply cant transition creatively. That starts with the D-core, that needs to be fixed.

If the main reason for firing Lava is because the organization believes they can be better with the group that they currently ice, I can live with that. Frankly, I dont think there is much any coach could do with this group. They need to be improved, starting with the players.
- flyer_nutter

What's going on with the team currently, has zero to do with the D core. And it has zero to do with this team not being ready to contend. This team and it's young player need to grow and develop. If this team was well within a playoff spot right now, playing solid Hockey, nobody would still consider them a contender. That's a completely different conversation.

But the comment that there isn't anything any Coach could do with this group is mind boggling to me. Don't even know where to start with that.

When the games get tough, the Flyers get got.

Doesn't need to be a miracle worker, needs to instill discipline and stress the importance of two way play.

Is Peter Deboer a great coach? He got a ragtag blue line to the SCF last year, because he devised a system that shielded them
- Jsaquella

The Devils, Boston, and NY, are all fairly D-minded teams.

They fashion their teams to fit such an identity. It starts with goaltending and moves out.

The Flyers had an indentity of a hunt the puck team. That was according to what Holmgren wanted originally. He failed to bring in guys that fit that identity imo. If the Flyers want to switch and go to a more Peter DeBoer kind of approach so be it. Just for (frank)s sake stick with something because I am tired of all the panic moves.

In the end then it seems like this comes down to whether one believes another coach will do a better job with what is on hand.

I simply do not think so, and they need to be improved starting with the players on the ice first and foremost. If you had Scotty Bowman out there waiting to replace Lava then I am all for this.

Murray isn't a terrible coach, but he is not a miracle worker.
- flyer_nutter

You don't need a miracle worker. As bad as this team is right now with the way it plays. Just a Coach who is going to demand they play a certain way, is all that's needed for improvement.

Doesn't need to be a miracle worker, needs to instill discipline and stress the importance of two way play.

Is Peter Deboer a great coach? He got a ragtag blue line to the SCF last year, because he devised a system that shielded them
- Jsaquella

If this team with it's talent level played the way Deboer has the Devils play. With that style. This team would be very good right now! Not Cup level. But would give a lot of teams all they could handle.

The Flyers had Bryzgalov bleeding bad goals for long stretches last season.

The Devils made it that far because they outworked every team before the Kings. You mention the forwards, and that is one of the biggest issues I see. The back-checking on this team is some of the worst I have ever seen. No consistency. It would also help if the D-core could carry the puck up the ice with creativity. They simply cant do it. That in itself would help decrease the gap between forwards and D.

They should watch a Hawks game.
- flyer_nutter

They don't have the talent in transition to be the Blackhawks. The Hawks have Keith, Seabrook and Leddy.

You know why the forwards don't back check? Because they're constantly trying to break out because the coach isn't instilling discipline. You see a guy like Knuble make mistake after mistake, but he's out there when they pull the goalie or are on the PP.

There was one sequence when the Flyers got the puck behind the net and got hemmed in because everyone took off and left the defenseman with nobody to pass to. Poor discipline is a coaching issue.

There's too many examples of coaches stressing disciplined play and getting results that are better than the talent on hand. The Flyers get less out of more than anyone besides Washington.

What's going on with the team currently, has zero to do with the D core. And it has zero to do with this team not being ready to contend. This team and it's young player need to grow and develop. If this team was well within a playoff spot right now, playing solid Hockey, nobody would still consider them a contender. That's a completely different conversation.

But the comment that there isn't anything any Coach could do with this group is mind boggling to me. Don't even know where to start with that.
- MJL

I do not believe there is a coach that could have made this team a top team in the East this season. I believe with any other guy behind the bench, they would have been right where they are. Fighting for a playoff spot, and fighting consistency.

The Devils, Boston, and NY, are all fairly D-minded teams.

They fashion their teams to fit such an identity. It starts with goaltending and moves out.

The Flyers had an indentity of a hunt the puck team. That was according to what Holmgren wanted originally. He failed to bring in guys that fit that identity imo. If the Flyers want to switch and go to a more Peter DeBoer kind of approach so be it. Just for (frank)s sake stick with something because I am tired of all the panic moves.
- flyer_nutter

Yes, he failed to land those guys. It happens. So what the coach needed to do at that point, is adapt his system to fit the players on hand.

At least 50% of coaching, in any sport, is making adjustments. Laviolette has come up real small in that regard the last season and a half.

They don't have the talent in transition to be the Blackhawks. The Hawks have Keith, Seabrook and Leddy.

You know why the forwards don't back check? Because they're constantly trying to break out because the coach isn't instilling discipline. You see a guy like Knuble make mistake after mistake, but he's out there when they pull the goalie or are on the PP.

There was one sequence when the Flyers got the puck behind the net and got hemmed in because everyone took off and left the defenseman with nobody to pass to. Poor discipline is a coaching issue.

There's too many examples of coaches stressing disciplined play and getting results that are better than the talent on hand. The Flyers get less out of more than anyone besides Washington.
- Jsaquella

forwards constantly cheat. dmen are often on an island...

RIP Stompin' Tom Connors.

They don't have the talent in transition to be the Blackhawks. The Hawks have Keith, Seabrook and Leddy.

You know why the forwards don't back check? Because they're constantly trying to break out because the coach isn't instilling discipline. You see a guy like Knuble make mistake after mistake, but he's out there when they pull the goalie or are on the PP.

There was one sequence when the Flyers got the puck behind the net and got hemmed in because everyone took off and left the defenseman with nobody to pass to. Poor discipline is a coaching issue.

There's too many examples of coaches stressing disciplined play and getting results that are better than the talent on hand. The Flyers get less out of more than anyone besides Washington.
- Jsaquella

They dont have the kind of guys to play that kind of game yet that is exactly the kind of game Lava preaches.

If the Flyers want a new identity so be it. Most coaches do not change their approach to the game, and I think management has failed matching its players to the style Lava preaches. They brought him in, in the first place. Babcock isnt going to change his style, nor is Trotz, etc.

You talk of forwards back-checking and I agree they do tend to try and move up the ice too quick sometimes. At the same time how many times have you see a guy like Talbot for example glide back with no effort?

The Flyers had Bryzgalov bleeding bad goals for long stretches last season.

The Devils made it that far because they outworked every team before the Kings. You mention the forwards, and that is one of the biggest issues I see. The back-checking on this team is some of the worst I have ever seen. No consistency. It would also help if the D-core could carry the puck up the ice with creativity. They simply cant do it. That in itself would help decrease the gap between forwards and D.

They should watch a Hawks game.
- flyer_nutter

You mention back-checking frequently. It takes far more then that from the forwards to be a good defensive team. The Forwards don't back-check consistenly because they're constantly in deep on ill advised forechecks. That's on the Coach.
Watch this team play, and then watch Boston, Devils, Montreal. There is no neutral zone presence for this team. There are no levels to it's forecheck. If you beat the Flyers initial forechecking pressure deep , you have a free skate to the Flyers zone. The structure is not there for this team.

I do not believe there is a coach that could have made this team a top team in the East this season. I believe with any other guy behind the bench, they would have been right where they are. Fighting for a playoff spot, and fighting consistency.
- flyer_nutter

That's the whole point. This isn't about being a top team in the East, and being on par with Boston. They're too young in areas. It's about playing the right way, and being as good as they should be. They're no where near it. They are underachieving. And it's because of the way they play.

forwards constantly cheat. dmen are often on an island...
- isaiah520

Constantly on the wrong side of the puck.

avs playing well against the hawks. 1-1.

Yes, he failed to land those guys. It happens. So what the coach needed to do at that point, is adapt his system to fit the players on hand.

At least 50% of coaching, in any sport, is making adjustments. Laviolette has come up real small in that regard the last season and a half.
- Jsaquella

The adjustments I agree with.

At the same time I dont think you have a good mix. You have an offensive group that is below average defensively, and isn't exactly going to grind you down, in either end.

You have a D-core that is slow, poor in transition but for the most part good in its own end, or at least it is supposed to be. Could adjustments be made? Definately. To the extent that it would drastically improve the team, and the stupidity shown by many of the players? I dont know. Maybe we will see soon enough.