I hate advanced metrics. They don't work in baseball and they aren't going to work in hockey. Nice tool for managers and coaches but that's about it. I get tired of talking about money and hockey.

I'm in no way implying he's not a good young player and I like him but he's not the player people on here are describing most days. He's not overly physical. He rarely controls the play. He doesn't put up points. I can see how well he plays defensively but if I'm comparing him to a recent Selke candidate and his second year in the league he's no Ryan Kesler.
- mayorofangrytown

How does he compare to the 06-07 Kesler?

Couturier is having a poor second season, but he still has 60-point, Selke potential.

I think Laughton could do that too but I don't think he'll produce offensively like Couturier has the potential to. Comparing their jr. numbers:

Couturier:
09/10: 68 GP, 41 G, 55 A, 96 PTS
10/11: 58 GP, 36 G, 60 A, 96 PTS

Laughton:
11/12: 64 GP, 21 G, 32 A, 53 PTS
12/13: 46 GP, 22 G, 32 A, 54 PTS
- NickTheKid87

I hope you're right but I don't see the display of offensive hands this kid had in the juniors.

I'm not knocking COuturier but if you can move him for a OEL type dman, then you better not hesitate.
- JoeRussomanno

I am not debating that but it won't be happening. OEL is going nowhere just like Weber was going nowhere. Do you Bouwmeester for Couturier plus? Because that's what kind of defensemen you are going to get for him.

I am not debating that but it won't be happening. OEL is going nowhere just like Weber was going nowhere. Do you Bouwmeester for Couturier plus? Because that's what kind of defensemen you are going to get for him.
- psuhockey

I think that's a pessimistic view of things.

I am not debating that but it won't be happening. OEL is going nowhere just like Weber was going nowhere. Do you Bouwmeester for Couturier plus? Because that's what kind of defensemen you are going to get for him.
- psuhockey

Let's be honest, you nor I know that.

If you can get a guy off his game as Malkin has shown he's susceptible to doing, by banging and irritating, isn't this then a match?
- JoeRussomanno

Who has shown that he can get Malkin off his game? That'd be Couturier. Not by hitting him, but by driving him crazy, like a gnat drives a bull crazy, without having to worry about taking a penalty for a hit on a superstar

I am not debating that but it won't be happening. OEL is going nowhere just like Weber was going nowhere. Do you Bouwmeester for Couturier plus? Because that's what kind of defensemen you are going to get for him.
- psuhockey

If that's the best you can do, then you don't make the trade.

Who has shown that he can get Malkin off his game? That'd be Couturier. Not by hitting him, but by driving him crazy, like a gnat drives a bull crazy, without having to worry about taking a penalty for a hit on a superstar
- Jsaquella

Not downplaying what he did, just saying I think the other player can do it in his own way just as effectively.

Jar Jar absolutely made me want to blow my brains out
- nastyflyergirl

X2

My point is to wait, at least another full year to see what kind of player his really is. This season, besides being his sophomore year, is almost a waste to judge anybody. Half the Flyers were sitting around getting fat at home or in Europe and the AHL guys were playing with slop and picking up bad habits at that level. It's hard to take seriously a year where Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa's AHL team are comfortably in playoff position while the Rangers and Flyers are struggling to get in.
- psuhockey

My point isn't about trading him. It's about the current love affair with him. I think people are jumping the gun and overstating his game.

There was a time I argued on here about whether Jeff Carter could play defense at all (much like my infamous Primeau rants) while people railed about how fabulous he was. I'm kinda feeling that again, but not quite to the same extent.

There are people on here who wouldn't trade him straight up to get their mother and sister out of a hostage situation.

Not downplaying what he did, just saying I think the other player can do it in his own way just as effectively.
- JoeRussomanno

Not saying he can't. I;d rather have Couturier as my second line center and Laughton as the third, than no Couturier and hoping Laughton can handle the job.

I mean were debating Couturier on a year and a half of work, yet promoting Laughton into that role after 5 NHL games?

How does he compare to the 06-07 Kesler?

Couturier is having a poor second season, but he still has 60-point, Selke potential.
- Feanor

And I hope you're right but I'm not jumping the gun over it.

Not saying he can't. I;d rather have Couturier as my second line center and Laughton as the third, than no Couturier and hoping Laughton can handle the job.

I mean were debating Couturier on a year and a half of work, yet promoting Laughton into that role after 5 NHL games?
- Jsaquella

only thing I'm debating about couturier is if his offensive upside is for real or not.

Not saying he can't. I;d rather have Couturier as my second line center and Laughton as the third, than no Couturier and hoping Laughton can handle the job.

I mean were debating Couturier on a year and a half of work, yet promoting Laughton into that role after 5 NHL games?
- Jsaquella

This is MY point in a nut shell.

only thing I'm debating about couturier is if his offensive upside is for real or not.
- JoeRussomanno

It's a debate that really can't be settled, until he stats spending time with more offensively capable linemates. I expect that when Briere is gone, that will happen, with Schenn possibly moving to a wing.

My point isn't about trading him. It's about the current love affair with him. I think people are jumping the gun and overstating his game.

There was a time I argued on here about whether Jeff Carter could play defense at all (much like my infamous Primeau rants) while people railed about how fabulous he was. I'm kinda feeling that again, but not quite to the same extent.

There are people on here who wouldn't trade him straight up to get their mother and sister out of a hostage situation.
- mayorofangrytown

Would need at least a 2nd rounder in return as well.

It's a debate that really can't be settled, until he stats spending time with more offensively capable linemates. I expect that when Briere is gone, that will happen, with Schenn possibly moving to a wing.
- Jsaquella

sounds like a plan. In the meantime if Phoenix wants him for OEL can we make that deal, should it arise? That'd be great.

It's a debate that really can't be settled, until he stats spending time with more offensively capable linemates. I expect that when Briere is gone, that will happen, with Schenn possibly moving to a wing.
- Jsaquella

Could even see it this year if everyone is healthy. A Gagne-Couturier-Read line is totally plausible.

Could even see it this year if everyone is healthy. A Gagne-Couturier-Read line is totally plausible.
- NickTheKid87

in phoenix?

This is MY point in a nut shell.
- mayorofangrytown

Hard to debate him when the track record isn't fully there.

I find it more telling that when other GM's call the Flyers, that Couturier is the name they ask about. When rumors kick up, it's Couturier, not Schenn, Read, Simmonds or Voracek.

I hate advanced metrics. They don't work in baseball and they aren't going to work in hockey. Nice tool for managers and coaches but that's about it. I get tired of talking about money and hockey.

I'm in no way implying he's not a good young player and I like him but he's not the player people on here are describing most days. He's not overly physical. He rarely controls the play. He doesn't put up points. I can see how well he plays defensively but if I'm comparing him to a recent Selke candidate and his second year in the league he's no Ryan Kesler.
- mayorofangrytown

I'm with you on advance metrics. But it terms of Couturier. It's much more about what he can be in the future, rather then just what he is now.

Hard to debate him when the track record isn't fully there.

I find it more telling that when other GM's call the Flyers, that Couturier is the name they ask about. When rumors kick up, it's Couturier, not Schenn, Read, Simmonds or Voracek.
- Jsaquella

This is a good point.

sounds like a plan. In the meantime if Phoenix wants him for OEL can we make that deal, should it arise? That'd be great.
- JoeRussomanno

I've made it abundantly clear that I'm open to that trade. However, I also don't see that as being realistic.

I've made it abundantly clear that I'm open to that trade. However, I also don't see that as being realistic.
- Jsaquella

look star wars is getting trashed by corporate money grabbers, can i hang my heart something else for the time being?

Could even see it this year if everyone is healthy. A Gagne-Couturier-Read line is totally plausible.
- NickTheKid87

That would easily be the most capable offensive line he'd have played on in his career thus far.