he also says they'd want a dman back, and would look at Gardiner.

Cole+Schwartz for Kulemin+Gardiner?

.
- Feeling Glucky?

He didn't say that. He said the Leafs would want to open up a spot for Gardiner

he also says they'd want a dman back, and would look at Gardiner.

Cole+Schwartz for Kulemin+Gardiner?

I'll admit I don't know too much about either Blues player... but it doesn't exactly seem like a great trade for the Leafs.

From what I gather between hockeydb and hf, Cole is an undersized forward with good speed that needs to work on his defensive game, and isn't exactly lighting the lamp this season(but has good potential).

Cole is supposed to be a puck moving 2-way guy, but he hasn't exactly been putting up much in the way of points either.

So a forward that doesn't match our coach and a defenseman who's just more of what we have for possibly our best defensive forward, and a dman who had more points last year than both those guys combined over their (albeit short) NHL careers. (30 points in 77 games vs 17 in 90+)

I'm gonna go ahead and say St Louis would need to add. A lot.
- Feeling Glucky?

Cole isnt that good and I think they are looking for someone to play with Piertrangelo

Uh dont think I can agree with this one.
- sanfordnson

I might actually agree with him on that one.

I'd also go with 5 Lemieuxs over 5 Gretzkys.

he also says they'd want a dman back, and would look at Gardiner.

Cole+Schwartz for Kulemin+Gardiner?

I'll admit I don't know too much about either Blues player... but it doesn't exactly seem like a great trade for the Leafs.

From what I gather between hockeydb and hf, Cole is an undersized forward with good speed that needs to work on his defensive game, and isn't exactly lighting the lamp this season(but has good potential).

Cole is supposed to be a puck moving 2-way guy, but he hasn't exactly been putting up much in the way of points either.

So a forward that doesn't match our coach and a defenseman who's just more of what we have for possibly our best defensive forward, and a dman who had more points last year than both those guys combined over their (albeit short) NHL careers. (30 points in 77 games vs 17 in 90+)

I'm gonna go ahead and say St Louis would need to add. A lot.
- Feeling Glucky?

Cole isn't a forward, either..

I might actually agree with him on that one.

I'd also go with 5 Lemieuxs over 5 Gretzkys.
- Feeling Glucky?

who brought up this argument?

if i had 5 of whoever vs. 5 of whoever

He didn't say that. He said the Leafs would want to open up a spot for Gardiner
- jbold

Right. My bad.

I still don't think I'd do it. Unless that dman was Komisarek or Liles, lol.

Cole isn't a forward, either..
- jbold

But Schwartz is.


Edit: I see the problem, "Cole is an undersized forward" should read "Schwartz is an undersized forward".


Too much espresso today. Hands moving faster than brain.

I might actually agree with him on that one.

I'd also go with 5 Lemieuxs over 5 Gretzkys.
- Feeling Glucky?

Maybe in a crybaby contest, but I'll take 5 Gretzkys over any other five clones.

I'd like to see five Zezels play five Cicarellis

Wilson didn't know how to adapt to players strengths either. His strategy revolved around a counter attacking rush that was very predictable and relied upon guys like Komisarek and other defensive dmen to rush the puck and move it up ice, while guys like Kadri needed to be a bullet out the chamber in terms of speed with a rocket shot. Without the speed and shot, you weren't going to succeed in Wilsons system and its why Kadri wasn't fit for the club at the time. With Randy we have a much more diverse system in terms of setting up in the oppositions zone, freeing players up for actual PLAYS, and it tires teams out, allowing guys like Kadri the time of day to show off his skills. Kadri has always been good enough its just a matter of how he was being used. Right now i'd say he's being used PERFECTLY, especially since much of our rush/breakout is dictated up the middle by the centerman unlike last year being relayed off the side boards to our wingers, closing off all avenues in the neutral zone. (we were a horrible neutral zone team due to our inactive centers on the breakout.)
- Rysko81

This couldn't be more true

I might actually agree with him on that one.

I'd also go with 5 Lemieuxs over 5 Gretzkys.
- Feeling Glucky?

It's a bizarre and irrevelvant way of evaluating the GOAT, but I still have a tough time believing that anyone would find a better option than putting 16,000+ career points on the ice at once.

who brought up this argument?

if i had 5 of whoever vs. 5 of whoever
- wingz4life

Guess.

Guess.
- Leeman4Gilmour

ek?

It's a bizarre and irrevelvant way of evaluating the GOAT, but I still have a tough time believing that anyone would find a better option than putting 16,000+ career points on the ice at once.
- Leeman4Gilmour

If it weren't for injuries, I'd take Lemieux over Gretzky any day.

Lemieux could blow by people, or through them. Depending on how insistent they were on trying to stop him.

Can someone explain to me why ROR doesn't have to go through waivers no matter what team?

Yeah but five Gretzkys working together with Gretzky Jedi Mind tricks would use Gretzky offence to overwhelm Orr defence
- Zezel

Orr would beat the hell out of Gretzky and there would be nothing he could to do stop it because he would only have another Gretzky to defend him and not a goon riding shotgun. Not to mention the whole playing defense part.

If it weren't for injuries, I'd take Lemieux over Gretzky any day.

Lemieux could blow by people, or through them. Depending on how insistent they were on trying to stop him.
- Feeling Glucky?

Even when healthy Gretzky's records, bth single season and otherwise, stood. Lemieux had better physical tools, but simply wasnt on Gretz' level mentally. Nobody was. Or has been since.

Orr would beat the hell out of Gretzky and there would be nothing he could to do stop it because he would only have another Gretzky to defend him and not a goon riding shotgun. Not to mention the whole playing defense part.
- Two_For_Truth

Didnt watch him much did ya? There have been few with his ability to avoid hits, unless you think Semenko and Mcsorely played wing with him. Its not an accident he stayed healthy most of his career.

Lidstrom is the best player of our time.

Orr would beat the hell out of Gretzky and there would be nothing he could to do stop it because he would only have another Gretzky to defend him and not a goon riding shotgun. Not to mention the whole playing defense part.
- Two_For_Truth

Orr also played in an era of massive expansion plus a rival pro league competing for talent.

Gretzky played in an era with a fixed number of teams and an expanding pool of talent with players coming the the Soviet bloc.

If you had just two Gretzky's, you'd never get the puck back from them. One gretzky out there with his vision and ability to stay three steps ahead of the play in his mind was one thing.
- Leeman4Gilmour

If you had 2 Orrs, Gretzky would be beaten into submission.

Two or three or five would be quite another.

Five, the beating would just get worse. And nobody to protect him.

Gretzky holds so many records, including many that will never be touched in 100 years, that's it's ridiculous to suggest he wasn't the best. It's a discussion that hockey fans like to have because every other sport gets to have it. But it's really a moot discussion.

How many Selke's did he win?

I'm not saying Orr wasn't a better defender, but Gretzky's career +518 suggests that, yes, he was an exceptional defender.

Considering he scored over 2000 points, being +518 isn't an example of exceptional defense. It's an example of scoring one more than anybody else. Gretzky would be on the ice for a lot of goals against but he would simply score one more than the other guys could. Essentially, the master of winning a game 6-5 which is exactly what the Oilers dynasty did.

Didnt watch him much did ya? There have been few with his ability to avoid hits, unless you think Semenko and Mcsorely played wing with him. Its not an accident he stayed healthy most of his career.
- sanfordnson

If anybody could hit him, it would be Bobby Orr.

Lidstrom is the best player of our time.
- AdamFrench

what if we had 5 Lidstroms vs. 5 Potvins

If anybody could hit him, it would be Bobby Orr.
- Two_For_Truth

Guess we'll never know.

Possibly the most bizarre debate Ive ever been in.

what if we had 5 Lidstroms vs. 5 Potvins
- wingz4life

One team would be silent in Sweden enjoying retirement, the other would be making up facts and stats about how (frank)ing sick the Sens are.

Orr would beat the hell out of Gretzky and there would be nothing he could to do stop it because he would only have another Gretzky to defend him and not a goon riding shotgun. Not to mention the whole playing defense part.
- Two_For_Truth

All the Gretzkys would just pass around the Orrs until the Orr clones knees blew out