yeah, and when you get 200 points you basically do have the puck all the time, that's just about the best kind of defence, totally overwhelming offence...not many teams have pulled it off but they Gretzky Oilers sure did
- Zezel

Some think those teams were the reason the trap was invented. They neednt have bothered. By the time the trap came about the dynasty was long gone and our absolutely miserable drafting those years was exposed.

His peers think he's the best.
- robin_steele264

Do they? He's never won the Ted Lindsay award.

He was just that much better than everyone else. Simple.
- sanfordnson

Okay, but again, doesn't being so much better than everyone else that you can score 92 goals on penalty kills (with defensive zone starts) make you an exceptional defender, as well?

Nobody could catch him back then after he took three steps, not too hard.
- AdamFrench

Until they ruined his knees. Then they could keep up.

russians that play for more then just money in their old age are few and far between
- wingz4life

Players in general are, they usually suck around that time, you can call it Cup lust all you want, but aside from serious class acts like Teemu who will give themselves to an organization (oddly enough these kinds of guys have almost always won a cup) they are mercenaries. Ray Whitney, Jagr, Arnott, Kovalev, Gonchar, Richards, hell an unwinning guy like Bertuzzi

http://www.truehockey.com...s-On-Each-Others-Radar-01



Kulemin for Cole?


"Toronto could be interested in a young player which may include former first round picks Schwartz and/or D-man Ian Cole."

The idea that Gretzky wasn't exceptional defensively is a myth.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Gretzky was not exceptional defensively.

Put five clones of Orr against five clones of Gretzky and Orr wins every time because Orr was actually exceptional in every aspect of the game.

Players in general are, they usually suck around that time, you can call it Cup lust all you want, but aside from serious class acts like Teemu who will give themselves to an organization (oddly enough these kinds of guys have almost always won a cup) they are mercenaries. Ray Whitney, Jagr, Arnott, Kovalev, Gonchar, Richards, hell an unwinning guy like Bertuzzi
- AdamFrench

bertuzzi wont win a cup its karma for what he did to moore

http://www.truehockey.com/articles/Blues-and-Leafs-On-Each-Others-Radar-01



Kulemin for Cole?


"Toronto could be interested in a young player which may include former first round picks Schwartz and/or D-man Ian Cole."
- jbold

No thanks. And trading for a defenseman would be a really weird move right now.

Don't know a ton about the Leafs but from an outsiders standpoint, I was wondering if Burke/Wilson were going to ruin Kadri's development by keeping him down for so long, but I hope that thought is proven very wrong.

Obviously Toronto deserves to have a great NHL team. Here's hoping things get better and better.

Gretzky was not exceptional defensively.

Put five clones of Orr against five clones of Gretzky and Orr wins every time because Orr was actually exceptional in every aspect of the game.
- Two_For_Truth

Uh dont think I can agree with this one.

Do they? He's never won the Ted Lindsay award.
- Jeffmt

Last year he was voted best by the players.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/...g-his-all-star-peers.html

Uh dont think I can agree with this one.
- sanfordnson

what about 5 clones of fuhr vs. 5 clones of hextall

Gretzky was not exceptional defensively.

Put five clones of Orr against five clones of Gretzky and Orr wins every time because Orr was actually exceptional in every aspect of the game.
- Two_For_Truth

Yeah but five Gretzkys working together with Gretzky Jedi Mind tricks would use Gretzky offence to overwhelm Orr defence

what about 5 clones of fuhr vs. 5 clones of hextall
- wingz4life

Thats a lot of blow

Martine

EDIT: Scratch that. Was thinking of what's-her-face. Beirness.
- Leeman4Gilmour

i would destroy that chick

Gretzky was not exceptional defensively.

Put five clones of Orr against five clones of Gretzky and Orr wins every time because Orr was actually exceptional in every aspect of the game.
- Two_For_Truth

If you had just two Gretzky's, you'd never get the puck back from them. One gretzky out there with his vision and ability to stay three steps ahead of the play in his mind was one thing.

Two or three or five would be quite another.

Gretzky holds so many records, including many that will never be touched in 100 years, that's it's ridiculous to suggest he wasn't the best. It's a discussion that hockey fans like to have because every other sport gets to have it. But it's really a moot discussion.

I'm not saying Orr wasn't a better defender, but Gretzky's career +518 suggests that, yes, he was an exceptional defender.

Last year he was voted best by the players.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/...g-his-all-star-peers.html
- robin_steele264

I skimmed over that and I didn't see anything about a vote, could be wrong though. It just said that Chara picked him first for the all-star game. The players vote every year for who they think is the best player. Last year they thought Malkin was the best. I don't know, maybe Chara thinks Datsyuk is the best in the league.

what about 5 clones of fuhr vs. 5 clones of hextall
- wingz4life

There's not enough cocaine in the world...

I skimmed over that and I didn't see anything about a vote, could be wrong though. It just said that Chara picked him first for the all-star game. The players vote every year for who they think is the best player. Last year they thought Malkin was the best. I don't know, maybe Chara thinks Datsyuk is the best in the league.
- Jeffmt

they can never talk to datsyuk because the guy barely speaks english, this is why there is bias towards him

I skimmed over that and I didn't see anything about a vote, could be wrong though. It just said that Chara picked him first for the all-star game. The players vote every year for who they think is the best player. Last year they thought Malkin was the best. I don't know, maybe Chara thinks Datsyuk is the best in the league.
- Jeffmt

My point is made.


I said arguably the best player.


Argued.


Lets move on

If you had just two Gretzky's, you'd never get the puck back from them. One gretzky out there with his vision and ability to stay three steps ahead of the play in his mind was one thing.

Two or three or five would be quite another.

Gretzky holds so many records, including many that will never be touched in 100 years, that's it's ridiculous to suggest he wasn't the best. It's a discussion that hockey fans like to have because every other sport gets to have it. But it's really a moot discussion.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Pretty much...imo Gretzky is on an echelon by himself among all-time players...even compared to other team sports I think he's the most totally dominant player in one team sport

Don't know a ton about the Leafs but from an outsiders standpoint, I was wondering if Burke/Wilson were going to ruin Kadri's development by keeping him down for so long, but I hope that thought is proven very wrong.

Obviously Toronto deserves to have a great NHL team. Here's hoping things get better and better.
- coohill

I think Wilson made up his mind about Kadri early on and he was never going to get a fair shot as long as Wilson was behind the bench. To Burke's credit I don't think he had any intentions of trading him. As for all the time he spent in the AHL, I'm fine with that. No one's was ever hurt by spending too much time learning the game in the minors, especially under Dallas Eakins.

http://www.truehockey.com/articles/Blues-and-Leafs-On-Each-Others-Radar-01



Kulemin for Cole?


"Toronto could be interested in a young player which may include former first round picks Schwartz and/or D-man Ian Cole."
- jbold

he also says they'd want a dman back, and would look at Gardiner.

Cole+Schwartz for Kulemin+Gardiner?

I'll admit I don't know too much about either Blues player... but it doesn't exactly seem like a great trade for the Leafs.

From what I gather between hockeydb and hf, Cole is an undersized forward with good speed that needs to work on his defensive game, and isn't exactly lighting the lamp this season(but has good potential).

Cole is supposed to be a puck moving 2-way guy, but he hasn't exactly been putting up much in the way of points either.

So a forward that doesn't match our coach and a defenseman who's just more of what we have for possibly our best defensive forward, and a dman who had more points last year than both those guys combined over their (albeit short) NHL careers. (30 points in 77 games vs 17 in 90+)

I'm gonna go ahead and say St Louis would need to add. A lot.

they can never talk to datsyuk because the guy barely speaks english, this is why there is bias towards him
- wingz4life

I don't know if that's true either, everyone seems to really like him. You could easily make an argument that he's the most respected player in the game.